Ok here's a picture of the plugs I pulled from the driver side of the engine block

 

I know they are fuel fouled but what's the chances of being able to reuse a fuel fouled plug...I heard people say you can bake them to dry them out and clean off the electrodes...when I tried starting the car the first time after a month it tried and died. I ask because im still sceptical about spark plugs being my issue

 

A roller cam will raise the price of the engine by probably about another $1000.

You need to go in from the outset to make sure you get a roller engine. Retrofitting an older block to work with a roller cam costs a TON of money, about $1000 for all the parts. Running a flat tappet cam is about $200-$300 in comparison. A lot of guys do it, but you just have to be aware of what you have and you have to cater to its weaknesses and make sure it stays healthy.

When I do a cam swap this year I'm gonna put another flat tappet cam right back in it... why? Because $1000-$1300 for all the conversion parts is just too much for me to afford. My next engine I get will be a roller block from the start. That way you can just use the factory roller tappet hardware, and as long as you dont go too crazy on the cam, the factory stuff will work fine, and save you a crapton of money.

Its not that your cam is in two pieces, that's a bit ridiculous, honestly. Im sure it has happened at least once but jeez...

Here is another article about it:
http://www.stockcarracing.com/techar...n/viewall.html

Chances are if you're dealing with cam failure, you have one or more lobes that look like this:



Notice how the shiny one is rounded off more than the others? Its not nearly as tall? That translates directly into less valve movement.

If you cant get it to run on starter fluid (I would disconnect fuel for this too) then you need to stop and... Im not really sure how a compression test will help you, but you can definitely try a cranking vacuum test. Go to the auto parts store and buy a diagnostic vacuum gauge. They're at most $20. Run the main hose to any of the vacuum ports on the bottom of the carburetor (they should all be plugged, if they're unplugged then that may be part of why you cant get it to crank... I've forgotten the big brake booster port on the back of the carb numerous times) and then you just hit the starter and watch what the needle does. It will likely come with instructions taht tell you what to look for.

This is a video of it being done, very simple:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQEBFFn8Yms

http://www.atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/vacuum/

You know the engine is turning at a good speed by looking at it and listening to it, you dont need a handheld tachometer, so ignore that part of it. You also cant get the engine to run first to warm up, so the rings may not seal as well as they otherwise would, so if its a little lower dont panic. Otherwise just ignore that part of it also.

A vacuum gauge is a very useful tool and I think EVERYONE should have one. I dont see how a compression test will help you find a camshaft issue, but it will at least ensure you have good compression in every cylinder, but the cranking vacuum test will give you a (admittedly rough) idea of that too.

In your case with potentially bad cam lobe(s), you'd be looking for a fluctuation of vacuum in the cranking vacuum test. It will jump around and be lower than usual, it may even go to zero sporadically, depending on how its failing. If it pulls a steady, even 3-7 inches of cranking vacuum I think you can rule out cam failure preventing the car from starting. It should at least start. From there you could watch vacuum while the engine is running to get an idea of how healthy it is.

If your engine REALLy has a flat tappet cam, they would include very explicit instructions on how to break it in properly... 20 minutes at 2000 RPMs or something along those lines. If you didnt get ANYTHING to that effect with it, AND it had a flat tappet cam, I'd be pretty surprised.

 

This cause for celebration!!! It turned over and ran for the duration of the starter fluid!!!! It was the spark plugs...me being stubborn I didn't want to believe it but I guess they were really fouled beyond use so...thanks again guys appreciate the help!!!

 

Ok guys, I'm putting this thing back together. I need to know what's the best way about running the fuel back in the carburetor...should I hook out back the way it was before our should I adjust the fuel/air mixture screws all the way back in...I'm trying to avoid fouling these plugs again..and what's the fuel pressure for a typical carb...i wanna run my electrical pump again

 

you need 5-7 psi for the carb. you got a mech pump or return style regulator?

 

I have the mechanical pump still in...the only thing is, the fuel pump I have In my fuel cell only primes the fuel lines after that it shuts off and the mechanical takes over from there...

 

the opsu should kick on the pump once it sees oil pressure. you can either use the intank electric with a return style regulator, or drop the tank and remove the pump, or run the electric with a mech pump IF the mech pump has a return line.

drawing fuel through a non working electric pump is gonna cause fuel starvation issues. itll start and run at idle for adjusting the carb though.

 

You said the oil pressure gauge will stop the fuel pump from operating? If I'm not mistaking the oil pressure guage plug is on the side of the engine bottom rear correct?

 

no, the opsu is wired into the fuel pump as a fail safe. if the relay fails (or isnt triggered by the ecm) the opsu will send voltage to the fuel pump to make sure it runs when it senses enough oil pressure.

 

as long as you havent cut any wires from the fuel pump or opsu, itll run when the oil pressure gets high enough. usually about 3-4 revolutions.

 

Well the way it was operating was find so I think ima try and get it running just like it was....turn on to prime and then let the mechanical take over...the mechanical has the return line so it should shoot the extra fuel back to the tank if it primes unnecessarily

 

if the opsu is operational, and still wired into the fuel pump, itll kick on the electric pump. if not then youll need to either wire the fuel pump relay trigger wire into a switch 12v source, or drop the tank and pull it.

 

Oh ok so everything is good I jus think the whole fuel pump assembly is not exactly like the original but that's fine...it worked before the engine issue, no fuel starve or nothing so ill jus cont. The way it is until its time to perfect the craft...until then I jus want to enjoy it for a change

 

Ok jus tried starting the car on fuel and no luck...smh I'm thinking this may be the cause of all my heart ache...starter fluid sparks and ignites the engine but the fuel doesn't do anything, is there such thing as bad fuel, and if so, what's the quickest way to diagnose and get it out???

 

yea. fuel can degrade to the point of not being combustable enough. take a small bit and see how well it burns. are you sure youre getting fuel to the cylinders?

 

Well the fuel is flowing from the tank to the carb fine...when I took the carb off and pulled the throttle linkage fuel fell from the bottom and when I used the starter fluid the car actually started for the duration of the starter fluid so id assume its falling thru intake just fine as well...

 

if itll run on starter fluid its either not getting fuel to the cylinders or the fuel isnt combustable enough. you can test this easily since you have a mech pump.

take the feed line on the mech pump and run it into a container with fresh gas in it. just be sure to pull the fuel pump fuse so the electric pump doesnt try and prime and shoot gas everywhere. if it starts that way then you have bad gas.

 

Awww man I didn't even think to try that! So I take it I should clean all that old fuel from the carb first

 

just drain the primary bowl. itll take a few cranks before the mech pump fills the bowl enough to start once you drain it.

 

What about my secondary? Will draining the primary cause the secondary to empty as well or will I have to remove the carb

 

secondaries are only used under hard acceleration under load. they wont open while idling and therfor wont dump any gas into the engine. primary is all you need to drain to test the gas.

 

Sounds good! Ima get on it once I take this 30 min commercial break to assist my wife "booo".

 

Just how old is the fuel? I chased a no start for 3 frustrating days until I realized the fuel was just too old for my combo it run on. After draining all the old crap out and putting 5 gallons of 93 + 5 gal of cam 2 racing fuel it started right up and ran a tad crappy for a few min and totaly cleared up after 5 mins of idleing. If that tends to be your case replace your fuel filter also. Should be able to tell by looking at some of it in a clear glass bottle, bad gas normally appears quite yellow and smelly compaired to the also clear color of fress fuel. May even be worth it to just drain what you have put some new fuel in along wiht a filter so it at least know you're running clean fuel. Good luck, and as suggested disable fuel, drain primary fuel bowl and try to start/run it by spraying starting fluid and keep it running for a lil bit. If that works out, reinable fuel system if you sure you have good fuel and see if it starts, keep us updated

 

Yea I pulled the primary drained it got some fresh fuel...I'm glad you described the bad fuel and how it looked...that fuel was gold, I'm running some fresh fuel now 93 octane...it starts fine with the starter fluid, but I guess the carb was so contaminated with the bad stuff that its still not working...is there a way to like flush the carb??? I need to flush the tank as well but just wanna know for certain that the bad fuel is the case

 

youd have to pull the carb off, take it apart and soak it in carb cleaner to clean out all the passages. which if its an older carb it could probably use a freshening up. rebuild kits are normally around $25

 

you can soak it in carb cleaner, a degreaser, paint thinner, or a number of other solvents.

 

Ok I think my issue lays in my spark...obviously I have spark because I can start on starter fluid...do anybody know anyway to increase the power of the spark? I charged my battery over night, got a new ignition coil, new plugs, new wires, (i had accel wires at first and seen cracks in them, didn't buy accel this time, should I have?) My distributor cap seems to be operational, no cracks..I did notice some white substance under the ECM (the black orange slice plastic peice) I don't think that's supposed to be there idk ill take pictures of my findings later...

 

You have it backwards.

Your engine runs on starting fluid, but dies when you stop feeding it starting fluid, meaning it's not getting enough fuel to stay running. Considering you have replaced nearly every component in your ignition system, I would suspect it is no longer suspect.

Change your fuel filter, including the filter inside the carb as well (assuming you're not just running an inline filter).

 

I see what your saying...but my bowls fill up just fine front and back...I pull the throttle linkage four times and it sputtered and continue to turn but no start...I jus find it hard to believe that I would have to pump the accelerator or press the throttle link that many times if the spark was strong enough.

 

if it runs on starting fluid then its getting a good enough spark. either your gas is too bad to run it, or youre not getting gas in the cylinders.

 

What carburetor do you have? Do you know how to baseline a carburetor?

Starting an untuned carbureted car can be a little bit of a tricky game. It's not difficult, but if you give it too much of a pump shot at first it can flood, if you dont give it enough it will sputter. You'll Have to play with the throttle while it's turning over to get it right. Is there a choke? That may or may not be complicating things for the moment. I'd probably leave it completely open and just hold the engine at speed using the throttle.

Your issue is fuel delivery. If it runs on starter fluid it has spark. You know your carb is getting fuel, you know you are getting spark. The problem lies in the fuel getting from the bowls to the engine.

This is for a Holley, will not apply to an Edelbrock or Qjet:
http://hotrodscott.blogspot.com/2007...ingtuning.html

Pay attention to steps 2, 5, and 8. In fact you may be well served by upping the idle speed a good bit just to make it easier to get it running and keep it rnning. You can properly set the idle later.

If it's a holley you can set the floats with the carb off the car by removing the fuel bowls and turning it upside down and just adjusting it so that the float is horizontal. After you get the car running, you can more accurately set it.

 

I was reading the link good info...but some of it was completely unclear as far as the jetting part but correct me if I'm wrong, so the best way to get it running is to adjust the idle screw so that it idles high so that fuel will fall into the intake

 

To be clear, you cannot expect a cold engine to run just fine without you physically holding the throttle open to keep it running. I dont know how the choke is set up, whether it's there or not, or what carb you have.

You need to play with the throttle til it fires up and hold it open enough to keep it running. There's no ECM constantly adjusting based on its sensors to make it run nicely when its cold and grumpy.

Get it running and then adjust the curb idle screw so that you dont ahve to hold it open anymore.

The jetting and whatnot isnt an issue right now. It should still fire up. You play with jetting after you get the car idling and running and the timing set. Just driving the car around in various ways will tell you about jetting, what that doesnt tell you can be understood by reading plugs, but you can get close without ever pulling a plug.

Is it a Holley double pumper? If so there's an excellent sticky on tuning those on the carb board.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...ey-tuning.html

 

This is awsome.... Its a freakin carb. There are only a very few posible things that can be wrong...If you can keep it running with starter fluid the timing is right and you got a fuel problem. Holy crap. Its got a holley on it not fuel injection the damn thing isnt going to start and purr like a kitten at the touch of the key. Where do you live so i can come fix this thing.

 

Lmao dude calm down! I already stated before I don't know shyt bout the technicalities of carb or the engine...I'm still trying to fugure out what a jet is...I know it needs fuel, spark, combustion and air. If you in killeen feel free to come work your magic hell all my time to fix it has elasped I'm about to leave and have to move it to storage

 

Well the damn thang ain't purrrin like a dog neither...and your right it is simple but the damn thing won't start...I can't think of nothing else except to rid myself the head ache of this good foresaken holley

 

If it will start and run on starting fluid the only thing left is a fuel issue. How old is the gas in the car? If it ran fine before siphon the old stuff out of the tank, replace the fuel filter, grab a gas can and get a couple gallons of super, put the fresh gas in the tank and spray a little starting fluid down the carb and crank it. If it starts keep ur foot on the gas pedal and try to hold it at a high idle (2kish) for a few min until it will idle by itself, may take a bit to clear the crap out. Until you know you have fresh fuel don't attempt to adjust the carb, timing, or anything else before replacing the gas or you will simply make more problems to fix..

 

I've tried it already...I have a fuel can sitting under the hood and have my mechanical pump sucking from the fuel can of top grade pump fuel...it won't start...it starts on starter fluid when I spray it in each of the 4 barrels of the carb...but when I pull the throttle assembly on the carb, fuel is squirting into the barrel and also the butterflies are opening to the intake...it only fires on starting fluid and won't do nothing but turn over on fuel

 

it fires on starting fluid, it doesn't run...cause its only me and I'm not over spraying starter fluid in an engine jus sounds like grounds for self destruction...I spray moderate amount go to the ignition, attempt to start and it ignites and dies off...try again with the new fuel...no start just turns over...

 

id pull the carb off an do a complete rebuild on it. if it runs on starting fluid then its a fuel delivery problem with the carb. it could be a blocked passage or something preventing adequate fuel in for combustion.

 

Well gentlemen it was bad fuel...took forever to realize that but now I know for future references...I'm jus waiting on a rebuild kit for my carb...I hope this works...there's a crack on I think its the idle valve smh...damn carb cleaner is destroying my carburetor..who ever thought of this stuff was obviously in cohoonce with carb makers

 

untrue, I did it 4 days ago with the cap and wires still on, was not an issue at all (I do run a remote coil). Transmission was disconnected and slid back then the motor was pulled up and out with an engine hoist

 

I'm back! Bad fuel wasn't the issue...still confused... did notice something when I called a mobile. Mechanic over...when he was trying to start her up, there was gas under the car coming out the headers...he said it was the choke, once I replace it ill be good to go, I definitely disagree, a bad choke can't possibly cause fuel to run out the exhaust...I know the valves can't be out of sync...because it started on the starting fluid fine like its been running all year. I'm all clued out???? The mechanic also said when and if it starts again...it will be an extremely loud backfire, I jus want to know what the hell is wrong with the POS so I can know wether to store it or trash it.

 

if you have fuel pouring out of the exhaust, you either have a) too much fuel going in for combustion and just getting forced out of the exhause valve or b) bad gas thats unable to combust.

it runs on starting fluid with the gas source cut off. so we know its not timing, spark, or airflow problems. that only leaves the gas/gas delivery method.

honestly at this point id swap the carb out to a different one. it sounds like it could be the issue. got a buddy with a carbed car you can borrow from? (its a carbed engine right? i cant remember)

 

Yea its carbed...where is he located???

 

no no no, i was asking if you had someone you could borrow a carb from to test.

 

Lol oh no...I'm the only one I know that ventures further then changing tires...I really would like to get. The understanding of this one first before I venture to sometihng different...I know all carbs are generally the same..if so, if another one works then why doesn't mine

 

could be that its either damaged in some way, or needs a rebuild. if its just dumping fuel into the chambers so much that its pouring out of the exhaust, i would suggest replacing it for a test to make sure its the cause of the no start before replacing it perm or spending money on a rebuild for it.

 

Would this be a good assumption if I say the vacuum is at operating level if its sucking the starter fluid down the cylinders? My uncle told me to put racing fuel in it??? It makes sense but doesn't explain why it worked before the flooding and not after. I'm starting to believe 1 of 2 things...1) the rings been worn so that compression is too low...or 2) the spark is only strong enough to ignite extremely flamable liquids