Just want to make sure I have things straight before messing with Oil Pan and Timing
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 88
Likes: 1
From: Alabama
Car: 91 rs
Engine: 5.7 350 :))
Transmission: 700 r4
Axle/Gears: 1996 - 3.42
Just want to make sure I have things straight before messing with Oil Pan and Timing
Hey guys, it’s been a while. I’m finishing up a rebuild and I wanted to be sure I had everything straight and see if someone could answer a few remaining questions before I finish this up. I’ll put my actual questions in bold.
This is on an 89 L98 350 TPI.
I want to replace the oil pump and the oil pan gaskets while I have easy access to this area and I also need to reset the timing. I need to start at the most basic point to be sure the timing in the system is just right. Basically there are no reference points that I can be sure of (timing gears, timing marks, crank pulley, dizzy, etc.). If I wanted to start from scratch on the timing system, the first thing I would want to do is remove the #1 cylinder spark plug and turn the crank by hand forwards (not backwards ever) until i feel compression (blast of air or sucking?) from the hole. I can watch the #1 valves to be certain.
Just to be sure I have this right - the outermost valve on the cylinder head is the intake valve and the innermost one is the exhaust. If the #1 cylinder is at TDC at the beginning of the Intake stroke, the innermost valve (exhaust) would have been in the open (Down) position and at TDC both valves will be all the way up in the closed position and any air coming out of the spark plug hole wouldn’t have been as strong as on the Compression stroke. But for the Compression/Ignition stroke TDC (the one that I want), the outermost (Intake) valve would have been in the Down position and at TDC both valves will be all the way up in the closed position and I should feel a strong compression from the hole. So how will I know the exact point that I want for the #1 spark plug to fire?
With the #1 cylinder at Compression stroke TDC, the distributor rotor should be pointing at the prong in the cap for the spark plug wire going to the #1 spark plug. The wires should then be placed in order 8436572 clockwise out from the #1 wire. As far as the point at which I want the timing for when the rotor points to the #1 spark plug, how should I calculate in advancing or retarding or do I simply want to set that perfect base point at which I want the #1 plug to fire?
As stated above, I know not to turn the engine backwards by hand, only forward, but does it matter if there is oil or not in the motor while doing this? Also rookie question, but how exactly do you “bump the starter” without using the ignition and at what points in this process do you want to turn the motor by hand or bump the starter and why?
Now for the oil pan. The only thing on top of the motor are the heads and intake manifold so I don’t have to worry about things like the distributor getting in the way. I need to remove the 2 motor mount through bolts and lift the engine with a jack enough to get the clearance I need for the pan. Do I need to mess with the transmission mounts at all? Where is the best place to place the jack for this? I’ve heard about crankshaft gears or something that have to be aligned just right to get the pan out; how do I figure this into the timing process above and how do I ensure that they are aligned right? Do I need to mess with the engine to transmission seal at all during this process? I just bought a standard replacement oil pump for this but is that recommended or should I have gone with something else? Anyone have tips for replacing the oil pump or is it pretty straight forward (Haynes manual friendly)?
That’s about it I think. Thanks guys!
P.S. - Thanks to Sofakingdom whose posts helped me understand most of this.
This is on an 89 L98 350 TPI.
I want to replace the oil pump and the oil pan gaskets while I have easy access to this area and I also need to reset the timing. I need to start at the most basic point to be sure the timing in the system is just right. Basically there are no reference points that I can be sure of (timing gears, timing marks, crank pulley, dizzy, etc.). If I wanted to start from scratch on the timing system, the first thing I would want to do is remove the #1 cylinder spark plug and turn the crank by hand forwards (not backwards ever) until i feel compression (blast of air or sucking?) from the hole. I can watch the #1 valves to be certain.
Just to be sure I have this right - the outermost valve on the cylinder head is the intake valve and the innermost one is the exhaust. If the #1 cylinder is at TDC at the beginning of the Intake stroke, the innermost valve (exhaust) would have been in the open (Down) position and at TDC both valves will be all the way up in the closed position and any air coming out of the spark plug hole wouldn’t have been as strong as on the Compression stroke. But for the Compression/Ignition stroke TDC (the one that I want), the outermost (Intake) valve would have been in the Down position and at TDC both valves will be all the way up in the closed position and I should feel a strong compression from the hole. So how will I know the exact point that I want for the #1 spark plug to fire?
With the #1 cylinder at Compression stroke TDC, the distributor rotor should be pointing at the prong in the cap for the spark plug wire going to the #1 spark plug. The wires should then be placed in order 8436572 clockwise out from the #1 wire. As far as the point at which I want the timing for when the rotor points to the #1 spark plug, how should I calculate in advancing or retarding or do I simply want to set that perfect base point at which I want the #1 plug to fire?
As stated above, I know not to turn the engine backwards by hand, only forward, but does it matter if there is oil or not in the motor while doing this? Also rookie question, but how exactly do you “bump the starter” without using the ignition and at what points in this process do you want to turn the motor by hand or bump the starter and why?
Now for the oil pan. The only thing on top of the motor are the heads and intake manifold so I don’t have to worry about things like the distributor getting in the way. I need to remove the 2 motor mount through bolts and lift the engine with a jack enough to get the clearance I need for the pan. Do I need to mess with the transmission mounts at all? Where is the best place to place the jack for this? I’ve heard about crankshaft gears or something that have to be aligned just right to get the pan out; how do I figure this into the timing process above and how do I ensure that they are aligned right? Do I need to mess with the engine to transmission seal at all during this process? I just bought a standard replacement oil pump for this but is that recommended or should I have gone with something else? Anyone have tips for replacing the oil pump or is it pretty straight forward (Haynes manual friendly)?
That’s about it I think. Thanks guys!
P.S. - Thanks to Sofakingdom whose posts helped me understand most of this.
Joined: Sep 2005
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Re: Just want to make sure I have things straight before messing with Oil Pan and Tim
To identify the valves, look at the ports... the exh valves line up with exh ports, the int valves with ... I'll let you do the math. Not hard to figure out then, that the pattern is EIIEEIIE on the head.
Go back to Engine 101. The engine rotates TWICE for each complete cycle. There are 4 strokes: intake, compression, power, exhaust. (suck squeeze bang blow) Each one takes up ½ of a crank rotation. There are 2 instances of TDC for each cyl during one cycle: one of them is firing (end of squeeze and start of bang) and one is at the end of the exh and beginning of int (changing over from blow to suck).
Watch the #1 int valve as you turn the motor. It will begin to open when the piston is near TDC (changing from exh stroke to int stroke), reach peak opening as the piston descends (intake stroke), then close when the piston is probably just past the bottom and starting to come up again. As the piston comes up (compression stroke) both valves will be closed. Firing is at the end of the comp stroke; the piston then goes down again (power stroke), and just as it reaches the bottom, the exh valve begins to open. The piston comes back up (exh stroke), the exh valve reaches full open about halfway up, at the top the exh valve closes and the int begins to open.
To find the TDC instance of interest, watch the #1 int valve as you turn the motor; watch for it to close; then the next time the piston reaches TDC, it's the firing instance. Set the engine to EXACTLY that spot. Observe the crank and cam sprockets; you will find a mark on each. Both will be at 12:00 at this point. Turn the crank 1 full rotation; the crank mark will again be at 12:00 (duh) but the cam mark will now be at 6:00. This is #6 firing (4 cyls away from #1 in the firing order) and is therefore NOT #1 firing, but it's the easiest place to see everything line up and therefore is where a motor is usually assembled.
When it's at this spot, stick the timing cover on with just a couple of bolts to hold it in place, and stick the damper on. With any luck the marks will line up. IF NOT, mark the damper with a Sharpie or something, take it back off, and cut a shallow groove in it with a hacksaw or something, and fill it with white paint. That's your new timing mark.
When the motor is installed back into the car, repeat the exercise of finding #1 firing - and make sure it's FIRING, and not just #1 TDC since there are 2 #1 TDCs and only 1 is firing - and leave the motor set to about 15° counter-clockwise (before) this spot. I.e., if the spark were to occur RIGHT HERE, it would be 15° advanced. Look down in the dist hole, and observe the oil pump drive rod. (you DID put it in, didn't you? I certainly hope so because you'll have to pull it back out and pop the pan off to fix it) With a big screwdriver or a tire tool or something technical and precision like that, rotate the rod until the slot is at about a 30° angle off of straight front-to-rear, going from driver's side (left) front to right rear.
Turn the dist shaft until the rotor points about 15° to the front of straight to the driver's side, with the dist body in the position it belongs in when in the car. (will depend on what dist you have) Drop it in. The dist gear will engage the cam, and since the teeth are helical, it will rotate as the dist goes in. When it's in, the rotor should be pointing just slightly to the driver's side from straight ahead. Make sure the dist body is all the way in, and tighten the bolt until you can still turn the dist but it takes some effort. Watch the little "star wheel" teeth in the dist, and rotate the dist body clockwise until the teeth line up, then a little more; pull up on the shaft and rotate it CCW as hard as you can, and while holding it with one hand like that, with the other, rotate the dist body CCW until the "star wheel" teeth almost line up.
Assemble the car. Resist the temptation to "just hear it run". Hook up every wire, every hose, every bolt, the exhaust, ALL the accessories, the belts; put the hood back on, put the air cleaner back on, AS IF IT HAD NEVER BEEN APART. COMPLETLY assemble it. Fill the engine with fluids including oil, anti-freeze, power steering fluid, etc. Let it down off the jack stands, move everything out of the way, make sure the tires are full, etc. Last of all, put in a FRESHLY CHARGED HOT battery. The object of the exercise here is to get it to start up INSTANTLY when you hit the key the first time, WITHOUT a bunch of extended cranking; you want to get it to where it's ready to test-drive within a few seconds of first startup. In short, imagine that you're the factory, and the car is rolling off the production line, and you're the last guy on the line, and you're starting a new car every 32 seconds or whatever; and after you start it, it immediately loads itself onto a car hauler and goes to a new car dealer. Adopt that level of discipline: it is THE ABSOLUTE BARE MINIMUM required for long-term success.
Pour an ounce or so of gasoline into the intake. Reach in the window, stick the key in the ignition, and crank it up; check for obvious spewing leaks (but there won't be any, since you were meticulous and careful and all your parts were good), and if there are none, test-drive it. If it fails to start up INSTANTANEOUSLY, STOP CRANKING IT immediately and figure out why. Test drive it long enough for the temp to reach equilibrium at "normal" temp. When you get back from your test drive, check for "less obvious" leaks, and if necessary, re-set the timing (probably won't be). Next drive will be to the quarter car wash to sterilize it and remove all traces of service. Finish with the "wax" setting to help hold down the corrosion.
Enjoy.
Go back to Engine 101. The engine rotates TWICE for each complete cycle. There are 4 strokes: intake, compression, power, exhaust. (suck squeeze bang blow) Each one takes up ½ of a crank rotation. There are 2 instances of TDC for each cyl during one cycle: one of them is firing (end of squeeze and start of bang) and one is at the end of the exh and beginning of int (changing over from blow to suck).
Watch the #1 int valve as you turn the motor. It will begin to open when the piston is near TDC (changing from exh stroke to int stroke), reach peak opening as the piston descends (intake stroke), then close when the piston is probably just past the bottom and starting to come up again. As the piston comes up (compression stroke) both valves will be closed. Firing is at the end of the comp stroke; the piston then goes down again (power stroke), and just as it reaches the bottom, the exh valve begins to open. The piston comes back up (exh stroke), the exh valve reaches full open about halfway up, at the top the exh valve closes and the int begins to open.
To find the TDC instance of interest, watch the #1 int valve as you turn the motor; watch for it to close; then the next time the piston reaches TDC, it's the firing instance. Set the engine to EXACTLY that spot. Observe the crank and cam sprockets; you will find a mark on each. Both will be at 12:00 at this point. Turn the crank 1 full rotation; the crank mark will again be at 12:00 (duh) but the cam mark will now be at 6:00. This is #6 firing (4 cyls away from #1 in the firing order) and is therefore NOT #1 firing, but it's the easiest place to see everything line up and therefore is where a motor is usually assembled.
When it's at this spot, stick the timing cover on with just a couple of bolts to hold it in place, and stick the damper on. With any luck the marks will line up. IF NOT, mark the damper with a Sharpie or something, take it back off, and cut a shallow groove in it with a hacksaw or something, and fill it with white paint. That's your new timing mark.
When the motor is installed back into the car, repeat the exercise of finding #1 firing - and make sure it's FIRING, and not just #1 TDC since there are 2 #1 TDCs and only 1 is firing - and leave the motor set to about 15° counter-clockwise (before) this spot. I.e., if the spark were to occur RIGHT HERE, it would be 15° advanced. Look down in the dist hole, and observe the oil pump drive rod. (you DID put it in, didn't you? I certainly hope so because you'll have to pull it back out and pop the pan off to fix it) With a big screwdriver or a tire tool or something technical and precision like that, rotate the rod until the slot is at about a 30° angle off of straight front-to-rear, going from driver's side (left) front to right rear.
Turn the dist shaft until the rotor points about 15° to the front of straight to the driver's side, with the dist body in the position it belongs in when in the car. (will depend on what dist you have) Drop it in. The dist gear will engage the cam, and since the teeth are helical, it will rotate as the dist goes in. When it's in, the rotor should be pointing just slightly to the driver's side from straight ahead. Make sure the dist body is all the way in, and tighten the bolt until you can still turn the dist but it takes some effort. Watch the little "star wheel" teeth in the dist, and rotate the dist body clockwise until the teeth line up, then a little more; pull up on the shaft and rotate it CCW as hard as you can, and while holding it with one hand like that, with the other, rotate the dist body CCW until the "star wheel" teeth almost line up.
Assemble the car. Resist the temptation to "just hear it run". Hook up every wire, every hose, every bolt, the exhaust, ALL the accessories, the belts; put the hood back on, put the air cleaner back on, AS IF IT HAD NEVER BEEN APART. COMPLETLY assemble it. Fill the engine with fluids including oil, anti-freeze, power steering fluid, etc. Let it down off the jack stands, move everything out of the way, make sure the tires are full, etc. Last of all, put in a FRESHLY CHARGED HOT battery. The object of the exercise here is to get it to start up INSTANTLY when you hit the key the first time, WITHOUT a bunch of extended cranking; you want to get it to where it's ready to test-drive within a few seconds of first startup. In short, imagine that you're the factory, and the car is rolling off the production line, and you're the last guy on the line, and you're starting a new car every 32 seconds or whatever; and after you start it, it immediately loads itself onto a car hauler and goes to a new car dealer. Adopt that level of discipline: it is THE ABSOLUTE BARE MINIMUM required for long-term success.
Pour an ounce or so of gasoline into the intake. Reach in the window, stick the key in the ignition, and crank it up; check for obvious spewing leaks (but there won't be any, since you were meticulous and careful and all your parts were good), and if there are none, test-drive it. If it fails to start up INSTANTANEOUSLY, STOP CRANKING IT immediately and figure out why. Test drive it long enough for the temp to reach equilibrium at "normal" temp. When you get back from your test drive, check for "less obvious" leaks, and if necessary, re-set the timing (probably won't be). Next drive will be to the quarter car wash to sterilize it and remove all traces of service. Finish with the "wax" setting to help hold down the corrosion.
Enjoy.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 88
Likes: 1
From: Alabama
Car: 91 rs
Engine: 5.7 350 :))
Transmission: 700 r4
Axle/Gears: 1996 - 3.42
Re: Just want to make sure I have things straight before messing with Oil Pan and Tim
Thanks for the detailed reply man.
So I’m assuming when the valves “open” you just see the valve going down.
I haven’t actually messed with the oil pump and drive rod yet as I wanted to be sure of what I would be getting myself into. I’m also assuming that it’s the oil pump drive rod that has to be aligned a certain way before the pan can come out. So how should I go about fitting that process into the process of getting the timing just right?
So I’m assuming when the valves “open” you just see the valve going down.
I haven’t actually messed with the oil pump and drive rod yet as I wanted to be sure of what I would be getting myself into. I’m also assuming that it’s the oil pump drive rod that has to be aligned a certain way before the pan can come out. So how should I go about fitting that process into the process of getting the timing just right?
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