Dakota W.

My mentality is using what's most effective. In this case, it's a built 305. I'd like a big block too, in a '69 Camaro RS anyway. Because 700hp on pump gas is niiiiiiiice, reaaaaaal niiiiiice.

FRMULA88

Yes until he breaks that high mileage stock motor, and or stock trans, and or stock rear end shooting for those 12s.

He will spend alot more than 5K to just upgrade the weak OEM drivetrain parts.

1,900 for a 12 bolt rear.
1,200 to upgrade the stock 700r4 to 4l60 specs. (new sun shell, 7 pinion planetaries, red alto clutches etc. etc.)
1,000 for a new lock-up toque converter for the upgraded engine & rear gears.

A cam, head, & intake swap alone will not offset the **** poor 8.5:1 compression of the 305 unless your new heads have less than 64 chambers to bump up the compression at least to 10:1


so a new top end with a high mileage bottom end of unknown history... that's smart.

Dakota W.

He told me 68k miles, motor doesn't burn oil and purrs like a kitten. A junkyard rearend is less than $200. The steel driveshaft SHOULDN'T snap, we're not talking 600hp here. Why would you try to make power on an engine with 8.5:1 cr? That's kind of the whole reason I suggested a headswap/headwork.

FRMULA88

Yes and no... because if I had to choose between a 305 small bore block and a 454 big bore block it would be the big block hands down.


but for our debate in the small block word.. I would take the big bore small block over the small bore version.

Obviously the bigger the bore, the larger the valves you can use

so the old cliché is true, no replacement for displacement... build the biggest motor you can afford that will fit in your car.

I my case a 421 SBC fits perfect... A big block would be a huge PIA with A/C power steering, power brakes, over the years these parts have come off my car.. so who knows maybe a big block one day.. or maybe a f-2 procharger. on my 421 .. since I am old & lazy I "overkilled" my small block using a dart block .

Dakota W.

Why are we still arguing if you understand?

FRMULA88

Who said I was arguing? LOL

If the kid can save 2,000... then he can save some more.. and not build something he will only want to upgrade later on when he has more money and wants to go faster... speed is addicting...

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i want to address a couple of things:
for his goals (bottom 13's, upper 12's.) a 7.5" 10 bolt with 28 spline axles and a solid pinion spacer will do just fine.

a quality converter can be had for about 650

no need for 7 pinion planetary set for this. a beast sunshell and 5 pinion will be more than enough, coupled with borg warner clutches and steels

it's an 89, which is 9.5:1 not 8.5:1 (every 85+ 305 was 9.5:1), and a .030" mill on the heads can have him at 10.2:1 pretty easily.

he doesn't need to rebuild his entire car if all he's looking to do is make a low mileage unmolested car run well. if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i don't think he has a choice of anything. 305 or 454 is kind of a silly comparison here.

i don't buy into valve sizing too much. look at all the stock eliminator cars running 120ish mph on .060" over 305's with stock sized valves at 3000lbs. hell, i did 108 on a stock 1.84" intake valve at 3200lbs.

food for thought man. just cause it's not your way, doesn't make it the wrong way.

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

I'm just glad everyone figured out how to quote properly,

To address a statement earlier,

Yes I said not everyone has the space or tools to yank a motor, and suggested heads cam and intake swap

What I suggested takes only hand tools and a parking spot, yanking a motor takes more than that

I'm all for larger motor swaps in an originally 305 car, but if its not the direction the owner wants to go, why should he have "build a 350" shoved down his throat

Dakota W.

Smart cave dweller right here!

s10sbc350

Ok so why is this thread still alive with people talking back and forth about B.S ??? The OP has said he wants to upgrade his 305 not a 350 nor a damn bbc for petes sake just wait for him to post back about what he wants to do to it.

Kerch5

Lol, i have been reading the posts every day, i appreciate all the suggestions. To answer s10sbc350's question i'm aiming for a rear end swap or rebuilding the stock one and putting a posi unit and 3.42 gears. If i have money left, heads and a cam swap keeping the tbi. All work will have to paid for at a shop. Any comments or suggestions on what to get/look for is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

if you have to pay for the work to be done at a shop, you won't get very far for $1500. a little more than a gear swap and exhaust maybe.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

My brothers 1980 Corvette weighing in 3,150 with driver, fuel, and spare tire in place just trapped 106 MPH in 3,400 DA after driving to the track with the a/c on with 1.94/1.60" valve 059 Vortec 305 heads on a .040" over 305 with a Crane 272H10 cam and 1.6:1 rockers. Running a Victor Jr intake, 500 cfm Edelbrock carb, 1 5/8" primary, 2.5" collector block hugger shorty headers and 2.5" dual exhaust with straight through mufflers. The car has a 3.07 gear in the rear and a 2,800 stalled TH400.

When it cools off outside we are going to pull off the intake, put a performer RPM airgap in its place and send the single plane off for the installation of a nitrous spray bar. I think she will survive atleast a progressive 150 shot repeatedly and a 200 shot when we step up to kill mode.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

I'm not saying it doesn't help, I'm saying I don't buy into it being super necessary when there are all sorts of tricks you can do to the backside of the valves to make them act bigger.

s10sbc350

Alright man, well I personnaly would'nt pay a mechanic to touch the rear end because it can be around $500 and up sometimes for a gear swap alone, but for a rear end with 3.42 gears on craigslist it will be under $300 for sure and you will have your old rear end as a spare still. Also a cam swap is pretty pricey if done by a mechanic so maybe buy a rear end for under or around $300, then if you wanted maybe get the motor rebuilt and a mild cam in it, then you would get your moneys worth with the new cam since it is taken out in a rebuild anyways it wont cost more then a rebuild would which is like $1000 if i remember rite, maybe even get 1.6 ratio rocker arms installed $80, and then from $2000 you have $600 left still so maybe buy a set of badass heads, and have all the motor parts installed when it's rebuilt and you should have a badass motor lol just check motor rebuild prices first but im sure it's like $1000 average.

s10sbc350

Oh and i didnt add it all up with exact prices so it could be a little less or more for the parts mentionted, but thats your part or someone else on here with no life lol. jk

3rdgenlewis

Totally off topic here, but can you put ported and polished 041 heads on a roller 305?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

even if you were able to put together a "badass 305" for 1500bux, which you can't, he wants to maintain the tbi, which will cost even more in tuning, since he can't do any of this himself.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

A rebuild isnt what he wants, performance is what he wants, he might get someone to rebuild it for $1000, but that would include no performance parts, just rebuilding wth the same parts

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

1000 dollars will not get you a rebuild. you *might* get a re-ring and rebearing for that. r&r on the engine alone will cost the 1000 from a shop.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Thats what i mean, youre looking at $1000 in labor, no parts included at all, not gaskets or anything

FRMULA88

When you start farming work out.. IT GETS AWEFUL EXPENSIVE.


1,500 $ won't go far.

A really good shop will charge 85$ hr labor.

17.6 hours and no parts..

s10sbc350

Well i thought it was like $1000 to get a sbc rebuilt, at least i was qouted that, and when rebuilding it, it wouldnt cost much more to have them slap a cam and set of heads on it, but it may be somwhere around $2000 which btw if you read back he said he has $1500-$2000 to spend so i might be wrong but i think it's possible but im probably wrong lol.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Youre right, it wont cost anything more to put those on because either way, they need to put in the cam and heads, stock or aftermarket. But its going to cost $1500 for the heads and cam, PLUS $1000 for the rebuild. What you got quoted for is just a "stock rebuild". It wont use any new parts, just reuses whats already on the engine. They replace gaskets and seals but that wont include the cost of the aftermarket parts you want. The parts cost way more than the actual build.

Dakota W.

Honestly, I'd just go with a new longblock. They can be had for $2-2500, and then it's pretty much just a cam swap and intake manifold job. Having someone else do the engine work just really isn't worth it.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

why is he needing a longblock? i thought the engine was in good working order?

Dakota W.

Sorry, should've specified. A longblock would be more cost effective if he's going to pay a shop to rebuild everything.

kolba2424

Hey i have a 1991 RS camaro, its got a 350, headers , ect. im concerned about my 10 bolt rear end, not sure of gear ratio, but i would like possie with out welding it, AND what rear is compatable with 1991 rs without changing drive shaft with posi, and cheap, this is my first day on the website, any help would be much appreciated! thanks!