Its really hard to say what's causing the rich condition, tapping on the ecm case to see if it causes the car to stumble, or hooking a scanner to look at the cts and or even if a injector is not flowing enough fuel the o2 will see this as a lean condition over compensation driving the injector to make the engine run overly rich.

 

So in your opinion the problem is my camaro is running rich? Does any of the wirerying I described cause any rich running issues? And is the ECM the main computer under the pasenger side dash. Or is it the one near the fuel pump relay.

 

You stated the smell of fuel, The ecm is under the dash on the drivers side.

 

Yes I think I made a pin hole on the tank when I cut open a hatch to get to fuel pump, found the ecm a big square box and it was under the passenger side dash.

 

What do you mean hooking up a scanner to look at the cts, what's the cts? And just to let you know the ninth injector is not even connected.

 

Not connect to the wiring or not connected to fuel rail?

If the CSI is still connected to the rail and it is leaking then it will flow fuel into the engine regardless of whether it has a elec connection of not

 

You get a shop to connect a scanner to the computer so you can see exactly what the computer is seeing from the sensors it uses and what they are doing.

The CTS is one of the most important sensors; it tells the computer what the engine temp is so it can adjust the amount of fuel supplied.
More when engine cold , less when hot.
If the computer is being told the engine is cold it will put more fuel in (rich ) than what the engine needs

 

Its not connected to the wiring.

Something is really weird I disconnected the harness that goes to the fuel pump relay since I was going to soder them correctly. Was not connected for an hr or so, my next door neighbor came over and ask me what was going on so I told him that the car wouldn't stay on. So to show him what I meant I had him crank it and it turned on with the relay harness not even connected to the relay. I'm going crazy over here how could it turn on with that harness b not connected?

 

Is it normal for the ecm to be very hot?

 

The ecm shouldn't be very hot to the touch.

 

What does it mean if it's very hot?

And if I were to buy a new one would I just plug it in like the old one or anything special?

 

So if the CS Iinjector is faulty and leaking it will be letting fuel through anytime the pump is running
Only way to check it would be to remove and plug the supply line to the fuel rail


Perfectly normal.
There is a separate switch on the engine operated by oil pressure that runs the fuel pump as a backup should the pump relay fail.
This is why a factory service manual is essential when trying to work on your car so you understand what is what

 

So even if the CS injector is not connected (the wire harness) would it still be leaking? I also noticed that when the temp goes up on car is when it doesn't want to turn on.

 

For sure ,it is only a valve turned on by power.
If the injector is locked in the open position ,having power or not won't make any difference; fuel will still come out anytime the pump is running .
As already noted ; only way to see if it is the problem is to disconnect the fuel line to it
FWIW ,
the CSI only has power when the engine is being cranked over

 

How do I test the CTS sensors once I take them of the block?

 

The cts is a thermistor , The resistance will change dependent on temperature. You would need to use a ohm meter to compare resistance vs temperature on a thermometer on your stove.
Im recalling thinking you ecm is bad, hot to the touch and the fans consistently running.
Going through the diagnostic trouble tree should have lead you to this conclusion.
our serial data line E at the aldl should be 2.5v or higher, if lower this indicates the ecm is faulty. This is the only test other than following other malf trouble trees to eliminate the function of all sensors/relays operation.

 

I tested both temp sensors the bigger one didn't work the smaller one worked fine, only thing is no auto store carries the actual sensor I need wich is the bigger one with more resistance. They have the smaller one with a choice of buying it with a pigtail connection. I don't know how to add a picture to show witch one I need. But I did see one here before. I will attempt to add photo here.

the one with the red arrow is the one I need and most likely causing my running rich problem. But no auto store carries it, would you know if there is somewhere I could order it from or could I use two of the same ones withe the blue arrow. The ECM they have it on stock if that's my next choice. I hope to god I'm getting closer to this issue pls continue to help me man!! I really do appreciate it all.

 

Gm/acdelco 12146312, 15326386
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...h&fromType=oem

 

In your picture the cts and cold start timer switch positions are swapped.

 

I'm really not thinking its your cts, your fans running constantly and the ecm being hot throw a red flag.

 

My fans run on a switch not constant, they have individual relays and fuse holders. I did noticed that one of the fuse holders was burnt but fuse wasn't poped. They are aftermarket fans and I connected them exactly how the intructions said except just with one switch, I think that's why the fuse holder got hot and melted but not poped.

Going back to the cts yes in this pic they are in oposite sides, but in my motor they were on correct sides. The red arrow one was tested with a ohms reader and showed no reading even after I put it in hot water. The other one in blue was tested with and without hot water and showed reading both times. The cts in my opinion could be the reason why after the car gets hot it stays cool and sends that message to th ecm. I may be wrong but at least I'm trying to figure this out, pls reply with what you think.

 

The one with the red arrow is the cold start timer switch.



When the ignition switch is turned to the crank position power is sent to the purple and white wire of the cold start timer switch and the ninth injector. The timer switch controls the ground side of the injector.

 

Not to sound like a retard but what does all this mean? The CTS on my car is no good. What am I suppose to do? Replace my ECM or my CTS. The CTS had no reading at all.

 

What you xplaining here is how to test the sensors? But I removed them fom th block and had them tested. And one failed. Your the expert here could you please explain it easier so I could undestand it better. Thanks!

 

If this doesn't match This

replace it !

 

The one you said failed if the contacts are not closed below 95F this will result in the ninth injector not spraying fuel and a hard start will occur.

 

This is the one I need that failed, where could I get one. I also plan on deleting the ninth injector

 

The bosch 0280130229 is way over priced, placing a ad in the wanted classified section here maybe the way to go.

 

If that cold start switch failed, the CSI (9th injector ) wouldn't be working at all unless the injector itself was leaking as I detailed above

So save your $$$ , why buy a expensive switch for something you are going to delete ?

 

So I f I were to delete the 9th injector what do I do with CSI switch, plug it? Leave it on but don't connect the connector to it. Or does the bypass kit come with whatever I need?

 

The csi block off kit just blocks the fuel supply to the 9th injector and plugs the runner port to prevent a vacuum leak. You should still have your computer memcal reprogramed to aid with cold start enrichment.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-TPI-SBC-Cold-Start-9th-Injector-Block-Off-Delete-Kit-/310724821775?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4858a4830f&vxp=mtr

 

So would that solve my problem?

 

My computer would have to be reprogramed if I use the 9th injector block off delete kit? How much would than cost?

 

Maybe but at the moment you haven't done any actually testing to show / prove that CSI the cause of your rich condition.

As already stated ,
disconnect and plug the CSI fuel supply and see if you still have problems before wasting $$$ and time for nothing


Nothing
it fills the hole , that is all you need.

 

Well I know the CSI is no good cause I had it tested with the ohms reader and had no resistance by itself or in hot water. But ill put it back together and leave it disconected and see what happens

 

You are just not getting it are you ??????

You tested the cold start SWITCH which controls the 9th injector.

I have yet to see you say you have tested the cold start (9th ) INJECTOR how I explained above ;
the thing that actually sprays the fuel into the engine.

At this point in time ,forget the faulty CS switch even exists , it is not the cause of your problem .
If it really worries that much ,buy a 50c 1/2" NPT plug from a plumbing shop to fill the hole in the intake.
Solved

Then move on to finding the real problem

 

Ok sorry VETTEOZ I guess I got confused, could you please tell me again how to do the test for the ninth injector.

 

Post # 84 above.
You need to remove the supply line to the CSI from the rear of the fuel rail and cap off .
This will prevent any fuel getting to the CSI to see if that is the source of your rich problem

 

Alternatively you could undo the rail fitting , remove the CSI , reconnect the fitting and position the CSI outside the intake.
Then with plenty of rags under the CSI (carefully , no spark or smoking) turn on the fuel pump and see if any fuel comes out of the CSI.

If it is working correctly , you should have no fuel showing

 

I thought the red one was the CSI

 

The csi is the one you circled in red?

 

ok I removed this and primed the fuel and no fuel came out. Did I do it right?

 

or do I remove it from the back?

 

So I just disconected the fuel line to the back of the fuel rail and yes gas came out. So what now

 

????

 

As you have been told ;
that is the COLD START SWITCH that operates the cold start INJECTOR we are discussing above.

 

Yes

Was it still connected to the fuel rail?
If so ,then a leaking cold start injector is not the cause of your rich condition problem .
Back to square one.

 

So I'm thinking the thermostat time switch is bad, since I tested it with ohms reader and got nothing. But idk please continue to help I trully appreciate it

 

Ya it was still connected and no fuel came out, I disconnected it from the fuel rail and that's when gas did come out

 

FORGET ABOUT THE CS SWITCH


It is not the cause of your problem.
If the wiring to that switch is disconnected it doesn't matters if it is working or not.
Is just sitting filling a hole in the intake

Move on