I'm planning my IROC build for next fall (When I get my money together) and was trying to figure out the under the hood stuff. I've planned the rest of the car out but am getting stuck on this. My goal is 430 hp/tq because that's more than the new Camaro ss has. I wont be using this car for racing at all. I just want a car power than I could ever use without having a heart-to-heart with the coppers.


My budget for the whole car will be about $20,000. This will include:

• Paint: Glossy black, I'm thinking about $5000.00 for this.
• 4th Gen interior, I have no idea how much this will cost. (For budget I'm going to assume $1000
• 85-87 IROC rims thinking a little over $1000 for this
• Set of great tires, thinking $800
• Good brakes $600+
• Suspension, not sure how much this will cost Going to assume$1000
• Floor mats, seat covers, and car cover, $1500, high quality
• Exhaust system $1000
• Engine
• Transmission
• Base car $1000-$1500

Combining all this I have a budget of about $6400 for the engine and transmission. I might be able to squeeze my budget up a little but not much so I think the max I can plan on for sure is $7000 for the engine and transmission.
The budget for paint is just that: a budget. $5000 is what will be spent on paint. If that means that Joe down the street is going to be using his roller on my car after filling in the dents with spray foam insulation, then that is what I am going to have to deal with.

I'm new to building cars so if you guys can tell me if my numbers are close to accurate and then In as simple terms as possible, explain how I should go about this goal. Understand that Im gonna learn a lot more before I start this next fall.

 

First things first. What kind of engine? SBC, LT, LX? Do you want to re-use any stock parts or replace everything? Carb or fuel injection? Might want to add a differential gear swap to that list.

 

When I say I'm new to cars, I am not being modest.... growing up the only experience I had working on cars was filling my wiper fluid... I bought an 86 Firebird for my first car 4 months ago and have been learning on it but I am still extremely limited on my under standing. I have tried to find websites, postings, and guides on this sort of information but Im having limited success finding anything other than basic engine concepts. I don't know the difference between a sbc, lt, or lx, I don't know what a differential gear swap is. if you could point me to something that might explain it, I would appreciate that....

 

Google. No, I'm not being sarcastic.. That's how I started (and there's STILL good info popping up all the time). When you find something specific you'de like to learn about - narrow your research.. buy books, even.. and of course, there's also speedshops that are more than happy to educate you on how things work if they've got the time.

Everyone has to start somewhere. I'm still learning new stuff every day.

 

I know, I have been reading all the articles I can find, ill have to buy a book though. I talked to one shop and the only thing he told me is that my shop would look like "pimp ****" if I put an 8" lift on it with a pair of 24's. The issue I have with the internet is that it seems like it jumps from basic to crazy complicated. Many seem to get so focused on random little details that its impossible to follow.

 

No help on the drivetrain decision, but I will throw out that you could easily exceed your 5k paint/body budget based on your guestimate of a 1 to 1.5k base car.

 

The 1.5k estimate is based on the pricing in my area, a mint condition iroc 350 5 spd goes for 4500. I have seen several poorly running / not running irocs for 1-1.5k that had clean bodies with minimal rusting and denting. I don't care how the car runs as I will basically be putting in a new drive train. Though your point is still valid, I intend to a good deal of prep work (as much as the shop will allow based on policy) to attempt to keep the cost of paint down.

By mint I mean extremely clean, not showroom but definately excellent.

 

.
Say guys could you do us a favor and fill this out .It helps us answer some of your questions. This way with just a glance we know what you’re working with. If you don't know just put "stock" and we can help you figure it out.

Simply click on USER CP near the top of the page.
then
EDIT YOUR DETAILS
then fill in the last 4 lines at the bottom of the page.
Car =
Engine =
Transmission =
Axle/Gears =
Thanks

 

Hey Ron, I would add that but I don't currently own the vehicle. I have an 86 Firebird but I prefer the Camaro body and I only have the 2.8L so I'm planning out my Camaro for next year. I am asking what route I should go engine wise. As in, super/turbo charged 350, 454, etc. Also what transmission I should use for either, and how much I should expect to spend.

 

Jared N259 ,

OK, there is a small detail you should know. A lot of us including myself have learned a great deal about these cars and what you can do with them. I have been studding and learning as I go for about 6 years now. This is my first attemptat working on a car to this extent and I started with a car I pulled out of some guy’s back yard. Not a pretty site. .I know and understands most of what is said and done here. And I have done a lot to my car. What I’m saying is slow down. Pace yourself because there’s a ton to know before even getting started. Working on a car that means ALLOT to me is the fun part. Perseveranceis the name of the game with these cars. You will see.


Also I would put aside some money for some of the work because some things for us beginners are best left to the professionals

Im going to send you a couple links you can check out.

 

Ron U.S.M.C,

I understand and appreciate that fact, and have the utmost admiration for everyone on this forum. The amount of understanding y'all have about F-Bodies is simply astounding. I love sitting here reading and thinking about what I want to do. I have "figured out what I plan to do with the rims, the Pre-88 iroc rims polished out and painted. Tires are a bit of a snag as there I extreme controversy over what tires are best. The exterior is already planned and im reading detailed threads about how to achieve it. I also currently have 3 tabs open with posts about how to do a 4th gen interior. I understand that I am NOWHERE near ready to attempt much more than a tune up at this point. The earliest time that I would begin the car project would be fall of next year, more than a year away. I do not take this lightly at all and plan on being much more knowledgeable before attempting it. I definitely expect to have to pay the pros for the really technical stuff.

 

other than being a higher HP rating than a new Camaro, what's so special about 430HP?
keep in mind that your car is about 800 pound lighter than the new Camaro, so you can potentially be faster with less power.. and besides- an HP rating is just a number that really doesn't mean anything since you don't race from stoplight to stoplight with a dyno. all that matters is how fast you want to go...

 

Take the budget and X by 2.. that will be the reality when it's all done especially if you have a shop do the all the work..

first big reason is you assume the paint job will be 5000$ but that is just the paint job... what about body work ?

A base car worth 1000-1500 will need body work and if you buy one with unforeseen issues (structural damage, 2" of bondo on the quarter panels. floor pans rotted out, etc ) you can eat up that budget really quick.

I am not saying you can't do a nice project for $ 20,000 but how much of the work are willing to do yourself? if the answer is "most all" except paint & bodywork you will be close if you buy a solid car.

Look at it this way if you paid a shop to do all the work:

20,000 / 85 $ hr (labor) = 235 hours of labor / 40 hrs. week = 5.875 weeks.


OK, you have paid for 6 week of labor and no parts... see what I mean?

 

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic...47eb025111e7ef

430 hp /490 lbft

Drive like stock 350 lol.

 

I'm confused as to when the bare minimum you could spend on a thirdgen was $40,000? I think the OP has a higher and more realistic budget then most people that post for tech help and don't have any money to spend. He is not asking to build a show car, he is merely looking to build his first car and doesn't know much yet, which is true the labor costs of not being able to do this stuff on your own will really eat away at the money. But if you spend the 20,000 wisely I see no reason why you can't build a nice cruiser car that's got some nice horsepower underneath the hood.

 

Who said anything about a show car?


if you read his wish list and you pay a shop to do all the work. you can burn thru 20,000 $ very easily just on basic parts & labor (to make the car safe & reliable to drive) + bodywork and paint.

That leaves little money left for engine / drivetrain parts & labor.


A decent paint job with decent prep.. then wet sand / buff is at least 40 hrs. min. More if you are doing a color change. who wants a black car with a red engine bay and door jambs? LOL, put a taxi sign on it..

5,000 $ is safe guess to get a paint job you are not ashamed of but that is not including any body work.

so assume you need 10K, if you spend less you are ahead.

that leaves 10k to do the rest...

 

All right, evidently I didn't make this clear but I intend to do most of the work my self. I plan to learn as I go and take it slow. True, if you payed a shop to do it it would take a great deal more money to achieve this goal. But as frmula88 said, this is a substantially higher budget than most people have. I recently read a post about the amount of money people have put into their 3rd gens and I was swing alot of 10-15k answers. Also, I don't know why everyone is under the impression that 1500 is going to get you a pile of scrap metal but my experience has shown differently. I picked up my firebird for 1800 which was more than the asking price because the guy was going to lose his home if he didn't get it. It needs a new front quarter panel but other than that is very clean, no rust. I looked at an 87 iroc 350 for 2k with a shot transmission and no exhaust system. Needed some work on the front fiberglass piece do to spider cracking but other than that, clean. If I look for a car that is not running, or is running poorly, I should have very little difficulty finding a clean car. On the subject of paint, I have asked many people, including a post on the forum, and the consensus is that 5k would get you a nice paint job as long as you do minimal prep work, ie stripping the paint and removing all the trim. I have been told that many good shops will not allow you to do prep work your self because if you do a shitty job there paint might not turn out well and then you can try to blame them. I don't need a show room paint job as this will hopefully be my DD but I don't want a crap paint job. $5000 should be enough to cover this type of paintjob and bodywork. Again, most of the work will be done by me, or me with the aid of friends, excluding any work that is specialized or Work that there is no realistic way for me to learn in a short run. So no, I won't rebuild a transmission for my car, but yes, I will install the new interior, yes I will do brakes and suspension, yes I will do as much of the under the hood as I possibly can. While I do not currently have the knowledge to do this, I WILL learn how to. My grandmothers boyfriend claims to restore cars but he just signs checks, it disgusts me and I will not do the same. This car is going to be my car made beautiful through my efforts, not those of a mechanic I'm paying.

 

One of the difficulties I'm having with this whole thing is that I've only ever driven an explorer, a suburban, and my firebird. None of which are particularly fast. So I picked 430 for a number because I had to pick something. I have no way to really imagine what a 5 second 0-60 would be like or what a 10 second 1/4 would be like.

 

Where you located? Know anyone that can take you for a ride in a latemodel 12 second car? That will get you an idea

 

My supervisor at work has a mazda speed 6, he says it has a 5.2 0-60 I'll talk to him

 

You have alot more money then me then, lol.

 

that maybe was true before I was married with 3 kids LOL.

the car comes last.

 

i have an example of what you can get for around $15k.. my old 71 Nova, which looked like this when it was done:



notice how it's different colors? that's because the $15k i spent on the car got it to the point where all it needed was body and paint.. i kept the receipts for everything i did to the car- the "magazine rated" 400HP 355 that i built from an 87 Caprice cop car engine with vortec heads, used mid 60's Corvette T10 4 speed, 8.5 10 bolt with 3.70 Richmond gears, totally rebuilt suspension with stock Moog stuff, chopped springs, C4 Vette front brakes, and about a zillion other little things that i did to the car over the 5 years that i had it.. i did all the work myself, except for the $900 check i wrote to the machine shop for getting the motor ready to be put together and the $200 i paid a guy to set up the gears and posi.. it was an awesome car in every way, and all it needed was to be made pretty... so if i figure another $3k to get the bodywork done and get it painted (it's one thing i won't do... not what i'm good at) and i'd be tickling close to $20k on a car that i paid $2k for and did everything myself on.. this is not a cheap hobby if you do it "right"...

i traded that car off, even up, for a 74 Monte Carlo that i sold 6 years later for $2200...