91 5.7 Z28 - vortec TPI issues
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Car: 91 camaro RS/B4C
Engine: 5.7 TPI
Transmission: 4 spd Auto
Axle/Gears: 3:23
91 5.7 Z28 - vortec TPI issues
Did an engine swap to an 5.7 vortec TPI setup and I'm having some issues.
First - car doesn't have power like it's supposed to. Car runs and drives but power is lacking, from stock 5.7 TPI setup I added Siamese runners, headers and high flow vortec TPI baseplate. All these should give me a noticable power difference than before, however it feel less than stock by quite a bit.
Second issue(probably related) is when I drive around a bit and the car gets warm and I have the car in drive with my foot on the brake the car is like misfiring or something. Can feel the car doing this - like pop, pop pop, pop pop, pop pop pop.
It's not consistent, sometimes barely noticable, sometimes severely noticable.
I have changed just about everything when I did the engine swap just to avoid these type of issues.
I am not sure how to go about troubleshooting this issue or what to look for.
Any suggestions or experience would be Appreciated.
Thanks,
Derek
First - car doesn't have power like it's supposed to. Car runs and drives but power is lacking, from stock 5.7 TPI setup I added Siamese runners, headers and high flow vortec TPI baseplate. All these should give me a noticable power difference than before, however it feel less than stock by quite a bit.
Second issue(probably related) is when I drive around a bit and the car gets warm and I have the car in drive with my foot on the brake the car is like misfiring or something. Can feel the car doing this - like pop, pop pop, pop pop, pop pop pop.
It's not consistent, sometimes barely noticable, sometimes severely noticable.
I have changed just about everything when I did the engine swap just to avoid these type of issues.
I am not sure how to go about troubleshooting this issue or what to look for.
Any suggestions or experience would be Appreciated.
Thanks,
Derek
Last edited by deriek; Oct 23, 2014 at 02:51 PM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6
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Car: 91 camaro RS/B4C
Engine: 5.7 TPI
Transmission: 4 spd Auto
Axle/Gears: 3:23
Re: 91 5.7 Z28 - vortec TPI issues
I gave someone the info to make the changes for tuning as I am not sure how that all works. I have Bosch III's, adjustable fuel pressure regulator set to 43psi.
Do you think I need to ask the Tuner to increase fuel table?
Do you think I need to ask the Tuner to increase fuel table?
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
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Car: 91 camaro RS/B4C
Engine: 5.7 TPI
Transmission: 4 spd Auto
Axle/Gears: 3:23
Re: 91 5.7 Z28 - vortec TPI issues
I put an wide band O2 gauge on it at one point, at idle its in the zone for AFR but when its WOT its like 10 or 11:1 AFR - not sure what that means. BLM's are in the 150 range and computer puts O2 sensor in closed loop.
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From: Detroit, MI
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: 5.7L
Transmission: ATX
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Re: 91 5.7 Z28 - vortec TPI issues
Deriek, I'm curious to hear if you made any progress with your issue. I'm thinking of doing some very similar modifications to my car (vortec heads with TPI intake) and am interested in other peoples successes with that set up. To answer your question about the Air Fuel Ratios, 10:1 is incredibly rich for not running with a turbo and even 11:1 is probably too rich for your set up. Being too rich will rob your car of power, too much fuel can be a bad thing for performance. If thermal enrichment is not needed a more ideal AFR would be 12.5:1. Just a guess, but perhaps your fuel pressure is set too high for the amount of injector PW your cal is set up for. Just an idea based on the small amount of available information.
What is your AFR at idle? Again, if the fueling is too rich, it is possible you could be inducing a rich misfire at idle.
What is your AFR at idle? Again, if the fueling is too rich, it is possible you could be inducing a rich misfire at idle.
Last edited by Jrob1060; Oct 26, 2014 at 07:21 PM. Reason: addtional comment and spelling fix
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Car: 91 camaro RS/B4C
Engine: 5.7 TPI
Transmission: 4 spd Auto
Axle/Gears: 3:23
Re: 91 5.7 Z28 - vortec TPI issues
With the wide band I could see the AFR was stoich at idle. I can see on tuner pro that AFR is correct, however the BLM's have to be in the 150+ range to get there.
I am not sure, but it would seem if the Computer thinks it needs to add fuel at idle, then it would need to add allot of fuel with WOT.
My thought(hope) is to correct the high BLM issue and hope it fixes all the other issues.
No progress as of yet, still not sure what I'm missing.
I am not sure, but it would seem if the Computer thinks it needs to add fuel at idle, then it would need to add allot of fuel with WOT.
My thought(hope) is to correct the high BLM issue and hope it fixes all the other issues.
No progress as of yet, still not sure what I'm missing.
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Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Oakdale, Ca
Car: 89 IrocZ
Engine: L98-ish
Transmission: 700R4
Re: 91 5.7 Z28 - vortec TPI issues
So you changed heads and intake...correct?
My suggestion is run and log the data with the stock chip, then have changes made as needed.
My suggestion is run and log the data with the stock chip, then have changes made as needed.
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6
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Car: 91 camaro RS/B4C
Engine: 5.7 TPI
Transmission: 4 spd Auto
Axle/Gears: 3:23
Re: 91 5.7 Z28 - vortec TPI issues
Changed to vortec crate motor, vortec TPI baseplate, SLP runners and headers with the AIR tubes.
Logging shows same with factory chip. Had 3 different custom tunes to start with and no matter what the BLM's are high and power is a minimal difference.
Logging shows same with factory chip. Had 3 different custom tunes to start with and no matter what the BLM's are high and power is a minimal difference.
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: Macon, GA
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Vortec headed 355, xe262
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt 3.70
Re: 91 5.7 Z28 - vortec TPI issues
http://www.firebirdnation.com/forums...-mean-exactly/
Dont expect a stock or mail order tune to work. Tunes are different from engine to engine. Have you ever heard of someone shipping a carburetor off to get "tuned" based on a spec sheet the owner provided? You cant tune something based on a list of parts.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/add...#ixzz3HPC6ECv3
Another site, this one catered to motorcycles... but all engines run the same for the most part:
Lean will cause "surging" where the engine pulls then stalls then pulls then stalls very quickly and can cause "popping" in the intake and the exhaust. It can also destroy pistons and cause engine failure under load.
If the ECM finds that the long term average of the INT's is adding fuel (over 128), it ratchets up the BLM's to try and get the average of the INT's back to 128. It stores those values in the volatile memory..... that's most of what the ECM "learns". If the BLM's are above 128, the ECM is responding to what it BELIEVES is a lean condition. IF the BLM's are below 128, its responding to what it BELIEVES is a rich condition.
The BLM's are developed during part throttle/part load conditions, when the ECM is operating in closed loop (O2's are being used to modify the fuel rate). They are not learned when you are running at WOT, so they are not an indication that the engine is leaning out at peak power output. They are used at WOT to calculate the fuel rate (but only if they are above 128). A BLM above 128 indicates that something in the fuel system is not responding the way the ECM thought it would.
The BLM's are developed during part throttle/part load conditions, when the ECM is operating in closed loop (O2's are being used to modify the fuel rate). They are not learned when you are running at WOT, so they are not an indication that the engine is leaning out at peak power output. They are used at WOT to calculate the fuel rate (but only if they are above 128). A BLM above 128 indicates that something in the fuel system is not responding the way the ECM thought it would.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/add...#ixzz3HPC6ECv3
If the air/fuel mixture is too rich for the engine while you are running at cruise speeds, the engine may tend to load up and foul the spark plugs, while if the air/fuel mixture is too lean the engine may misfire at idle and at light loads or tend to run hot or overheat.
Lean Symptoms:
Poor power output
Hard to start when cold – requires excessive choking.
Lengthy warm-up required.
Runs better (but not good as it warms up)
Spark plugs overly clean..with no deposits or slight glazed appearance
Rough, erratic idle that drifts toward higher rpms than expected based on the setting of the curb idle screw. Sometimes a lean condition will cause a “hanging” idle that is slow to settle down to set idle speed.
Backfiring
Sluggish…hesitates when the throttle is opened, then recovers (often accompanied by a slight backfire)
Vague throttle response
Surging at steady throttle cruise operation
When fully warmed up, runs better when choke is applied.
Engine runs hotter than normal. Headers can turn cherry red in extreme cases!
Temporarily removing air filter element makes the engine run worse.
Unusual “sucking” noises in the intake area.
Runs better as you climb to higher elevations
Slight back-firing on deceleration. This normal tendency is controlled by the air cut-off valve(s) operation. If the air cutoff valve(s) is working properly and you still have backfiring on deceleration, something is causing a lean condition.
Poor power output
Hard to start when cold – requires excessive choking.
Lengthy warm-up required.
Runs better (but not good as it warms up)
Spark plugs overly clean..with no deposits or slight glazed appearance
Rough, erratic idle that drifts toward higher rpms than expected based on the setting of the curb idle screw. Sometimes a lean condition will cause a “hanging” idle that is slow to settle down to set idle speed.
Backfiring
Sluggish…hesitates when the throttle is opened, then recovers (often accompanied by a slight backfire)
Vague throttle response
Surging at steady throttle cruise operation
When fully warmed up, runs better when choke is applied.
Engine runs hotter than normal. Headers can turn cherry red in extreme cases!
Temporarily removing air filter element makes the engine run worse.
Unusual “sucking” noises in the intake area.
Runs better as you climb to higher elevations
Slight back-firing on deceleration. This normal tendency is controlled by the air cut-off valve(s) operation. If the air cutoff valve(s) is working properly and you still have backfiring on deceleration, something is causing a lean condition.
Last edited by InfernalVortex; Oct 27, 2014 at 10:14 PM.
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