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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
To the first 30 members, I will calculate the cam profile requirements of your given engine combination and operating variables, for free. And I will display the here in a post for you. The software will use the only equations capable of calculating the cam. It is the most accurate method of selecting the right cam. You can help me prove it.
First visit www.controlledinduction.com and write down the input values you will need to supply me with by viewing the screen shot on the main page of my website. It will be the values in white text boxes. Then message me the values and I will enter them and post the results or screen shot.
Do not worry about the three parameters hidden from the pulldown menu on the websites screen shot. Don't need them, just make sure I know if it's a 2 or 4 valve.
FREE CAMSHAFT DESIGNS REMAINING: 0
Last edited by Valve Motion; Oct 13, 2015 at 05:59 PM.
Reason: to inform members of how many free cam designs are left on my offer.
I'm very interested in participating in your offer however when viewing your website, it appears that some of white text boxes are obscured by the drop down boxes. Or am I missing something?
Thanks.
I'm sorry, forgot the menu was there. No problem it's just the observed barometer, drybulb and wetbulb, which is not going to effect what we are doing here. There is nothing above the number of cylinders on the left, and the option for 2 valve is hidden and you can see 4 valve option. That is it, everything is good to go. Thank you for message.
Thanks for the replies both here and in the "Cam Selection" you posted on.
I hope I don't miss the boat here. I won't have access to my PC and engine data until much later this evening. I suspect you'll have a full house of requests once your thread makes the rounds.
Thanks again.
8 cyl
4.030" x 3.48"
5.7" rods
Flat top 5cc, 2 VR
64cc heads
4.100" x .015" gaskets
.025" block to piston
2.02" / 1.60" valves
200cc intake port head
.200 123 100
.300 181 145
.400 230 164
.500 253 171
.600 261 176
Numbers from Brodix, tested at 28" H20
N/A
93 octane pump gas
28.99 Barometric Pressure
60% HUMIDITY
74 degree air temp
7200 Max safe RPM, would want peak power around 6600-6800 rpm
Edelbrock RPM intake
Holley HP 4150 750 cfm
Full billet alum. 1.6 ratio roller rockers
Mech. flat tappet and mech. roller cams are what I'm interested in.
Tight lash .016 to .020"
You didn't give compression but that was not hard to decide. This is the Camshaft that is calculated from Controlled Induction and the Jones Equation. 99% of the time, these cams will outperform any other at the given RPM for Max HP.
Keep in mind, that the cam values shown on the enlarged thumbnail are what would be required for valve motion to accomplish filling the cylinder at the given MaxHP RPM. You have to decide if it is physically and/or financially possible.
400" sbc
4.125 bore 3.75 stroke 6" rod 1.125" piston 0 deck block
.041" gasket thickness 4.200" bore
28 cc dish. 64cc head chamber should be close to 9:1 comp
2 valve head, intake 2.100" 1.6" exh. Very good to exceptional flow curve imo. 290 cfm at .500, 316 at .600, 330 at .700, 340 at .800"
Single plane intake victor E efi.
Gasoline fuel
Max rpm set to 7300.
Max hp rpm 6500-6600. Shift 7000
Weather varies, 29.9-30.0 in hg, 60-70% humidity worse case, 70 deg f ambient
1.6 rockers.
Turbo car with decent exhaust side. Not dumped, full length but free flowing. 25psi
400" sbc
4.125 bore 3.75 stroke 6" rod 1.125" piston 0 deck block
.041" gasket thickness 4.200" bore
28 cc dish. 64cc head chamber should be close to 9:1 comp
2 valve head, intake 2.100" 1.6" exh. Very good to exceptional flow curve imo. 290 cfm at .500, 316 at .600, 330 at .700, 340 at .800"
Single plane intake victor E efi.
Gasoline fuel
Max rpm set to 7300.
Max hp rpm 6500-6600. Shift 7000
Weather varies, 29.9-30.0 in hg, 60-70% humidity worse case, 70 deg f ambient
1.6 rockers.
Turbo car with decent exhaust side. Not dumped, full length but free flowing. 25psi
"I can't attach the screen shot in a message. Do you want to copy this and post it.
The cam came out 234 - 244 degrees at .050" with .565" - .604" net valve lift on a 110 LSA advanced 3 degrees."
Last edited by 88gta3508; Oct 9, 2015 at 03:52 PM.
For the past 35 years, I've designed and manufactured hundreds of camshafts for some of the most successful engine builders in the country. I always guaranteed my cams to outperform the cams they were running or anyone else's cam they were testing, or it was FREE. I had to return payment on less than 12, though another 5 or 6 didn't want to send the cam back.
I have never thought or suggested these formulas my, now deceased father taught me in 1977, were the final answer to the perfect cam. But I believe that whatever cam is in your engine, the one this software calculates will make more power, more efficiently.
And don't forget, I did not develop the math, it's not mine and take no credit for it. I'm just passing on the fact that it is real and available to everyone.
As long as I'm selling this version, they'll be free. I am suppose to have a new program ready before 2017, and right now I'm on schedule.
Well, I'm getting your program tonight. How much would I pay for the 2017 version? What kind of extra features are you planning? Can you reveal them yet?
EDIT: Also, the program seems to give a peak HP and TQ for 1 RPM. Does it have the capability to give a graph over an RPM range? I know it's not an exact science but software like this points one in a good direction when considering expensive parts like cams & heads.
Last edited by UltRoadWarrior9; Oct 8, 2015 at 05:40 PM.
The 2017 software will graph everything, including the valve/cam motion, which you will be able to compare with the manufacturers profiles, camdr, etc. But this really isn't a program for trying parts. It calculates the correct valve motion to fill the cylinder with all of the components you enter. I am making a really cheap dyno program that uses the same math, but leaves out all of the parameters that do not effect the power or air consumption, like block deck height, piston pin height, etc. Maybe $25.
... But this really isn't a program for trying parts. It calculates the correct valve motion to fill the cylinder with all of the components you enter....
Question then... If I input all variables the same except for a 2.02" intake valve vs a 2.08" intake valve spec, will it not show a certain difference in peak HP and TQ at their RPM? I'm a n00b, sorry, just curious. Checking out the program!
No it will recalculate the camshaft to achieve filling the cylinder at the given VE% at the given RPM. PortFlow goes up 4%, lift goes down by the square root of 4%. But when your net valve lift requirement is too much for your comfort level, you keep giving it more port until the lift becomes reasonable.
For the past 35 years, I've designed and manufactured hundreds of camshafts for some of the most successful engine builders in the country. I always guaranteed my cams to outperform the cams they were running or anyone else's cam they were testing, or it was FREE. I had to return payment on less than 12, though another 5 or 6 didn't want to send the cam back.
I have never thought or suggested these formulas my, now deceased father taught me in 1977, were the final answer to the perfect cam. But I believe that whatever cam is in your engine, the one this software calculates will make more power, more efficiently.
And don't forget, I did not develop the math, it's not mine and take no credit for it. I'm just passing on the fact that it is real and available to everyone.
According to some old school guys, the origin of the metal is of primary concern. Doug Herbert Cam website is/was a great example:http://www.herbertcams.com/
Engine was built to rev to 7000rpm, VT is good to 7200.
Code:
Cylinders: 8
Bore: 4.00
Stroke: 3.48
Displacement 350ci
Rods: 6.0"
Piston: -5cc valve relief flat top
Static Compression: 10.71
Gasket Thickness: .026
Gasket Bore: 4.1
Piston is .025 in the hole
Heads: AFR LT1 195cc heads, 2.050 Intake, 1.6" Exhaust, 2 valve. 58cc chambers
Current camshaft:
282/290 @ .000" lift
231/239 @ .050" lift
.571" / .574" w/1.6rrs
110LSA, 106ICL
Hydraulic Roller
Or, if you prefer, I have the valve events as well.
IVO: 35°
IVC: 67°
EVO: 79°
EVC: 31°
Intake: ported LT1 intake w/52mm TB. 3" runner length.
Exhaust: 1 3/4" LTs, 3" SLP 2otL exhaust, which is a straight through muffler.
Fuel is just regular 93 octane.
Alright, We've got 2 screen shots. One normal model and the other where I manipulated the input values to match the intake profile numbers. It looks like some pro-stock or nascar guys told you to use that cam. It has a seat duration good for 6060 Max-HP RPM and a Net Valve Lift good for 6922 Max-HP RPM. And the rate of lift is faster than I have ever seen a cam that didn't break the valve train. I had to put a very short rod in to get the .050" number up. That is if you gave me the right numbers.
Two valve
Natural Aspiration
Fuel 93/94 octane pump gas
Stock GM TPI Ported 17" runner length about 193 CFM at 20.4"h2o
Shorty 4 in to 1 Hedman # 68476 headers +y pipe 3" exhaust with CAT removed single Flowmaster 40 series 1 in 1 out muffler.
Car is 3480 Lbs with full fluids and driver.
Max Hp 4500 - 4700 Rpm 6000 redline.
Car is driven 1,000 - 1,500 miles a year mostly 70Mph hwy use and 30%+- 2.1 mile road course 1,750 is the long straight 11 turns average speed 70mph currently.
Thanks!!!
Dave
Last edited by daferris; Oct 8, 2015 at 09:35 PM.
Reason: Update info
Alright, We've got 2 screen shots. One normal model and the other where I manipulated the input values to match the intake profile numbers. It looks like some pro-stock or nascar guys told you to use that cam. It has a seat duration good for 6060 Max-HP RPM and a Net Valve Lift good for 6922 Max-HP RPM. And the rate of lift is faster than I have ever seen a cam that didn't break the valve train. I had to put a very short rod in to get the .050" number up. That is if you gave me the right numbers.
*EDIT* oops. I went back and looked at my notes from the engine build. No idea why I suddenly thought I had 6" rods. I have 5.7" rods. Sorry, thats a pretty big mistake.
I spent hours on the phone with both Lloyd Elliot discussing my intended use of the car as well as every scrap of information, weight, gearing, heads....you name it.
The cam is custom, and uses a asymmetric lobe. Its extremely aggressive on the opening ramp.
Aside from bucking around the 1000-1500rpm mark, which I believe can eventually be tuned out with help, it makes power exactly where I asked Lloyd for it. A near identical engine had its max TQ around 5200rpm, and max HP around 6700rpm but carried the same HP to 7000rpm where the dyno stopped.
Last edited by Thirdgen89GTA; Oct 8, 2015 at 10:07 PM.
Two valve
Natural Aspiration
Fuel 93/94 octane pump gas
Stock GM TPI Ported 17" runner length about 193 CFM at 20.4"h2o
Shorty 4 in to 1 Hedman # 68476 headers +y pipe 3" exhaust with CAT removed single Flowmaster 40 series 1 in 1 out muffler.
Car is 3480 Lbs with full fluids and driver.
Max Hp 4500 - 4700 Rpm 6000 redline.
Car is driven 1,000 - 1,500 miles a year mostly 70Mph hwy use and 30%+- 2.1 mile road course 1,750 is the long straight 11 turns average speed 70mph currently.
Thanks!!!
Dave
2 Screen Shots. 1 at 5000 RPM and 1 at 5640 RPM. I never design an automotive cam for less than 2900 FPM mean piston velocity. You'll make more torque and horsepower without loss of driveability at 256 seat duration. Steady state engines or specific manifold vacuum requirements excluded.
*EDIT* oops. I went back and looked at my notes from the engine build. No idea why I suddenly thought I had 6" rods. I have 5.7" rods. Sorry, thats a pretty big mistake.
I spent hours on the phone with both Lloyd Elliot discussing my intended use of the car as well as every scrap of information, weight, gearing, heads....you name it.
The cam is custom, and uses a asymmetric lobe. Its extremely aggressive on the opening ramp.
Aside from bucking around the 1000-1500rpm mark, which I believe can eventually be tuned out with help, it makes power exactly where I asked Lloyd for it. A near identical engine had its max TQ around 5200rpm, and max HP around 6700rpm but carried the same HP to 7000rpm where the dyno stopped.
I can believe it ran to 7000 RPM, and you get a flat power curve past peak torque when it's so close to the peak HP RPM.
Alright, We've got 2 screen shots. One normal model and the other where I manipulated the input values to match the intake profile numbers. It looks like some pro-stock or nascar guys told you to use that cam. It has a seat duration good for 6060 Max-HP RPM and a Net Valve Lift good for 6922 Max-HP RPM. And the rate of lift is faster than I have ever seen a cam that didn't break the valve train. I had to put a very short rod in to get the .050" number up. That is if you gave me the right numbers.
Thats similar to the comp cams xfi lobes. I have had cars run those cams with good success and not break parts. They do require a good stiff spring to rpm. Afr 8019 is a PAC spring i believe 1209 or 190x something. 155/410 seat/open. I put them at 170-175 seat to go 7000-7200.
Gen 1 Small Block Chevy (1pc rms converted to 2 pc) Dart Pro1 Platinum 200cc heads
# of cylinders = 8
Bore = 4.030"
Stroke = 3.875"
Rod center distance = 6.000"
Piston Pin height 1.062
piston = flat top -7 cc valve relief pockets
head volume = 68cc
head gasket thickness = 0.041"
head gasket bore = 4.19"
block to piston deck = 0.000"
intake valve diameter = 1.940"
exhaust valve diameter = 1.500"
Mech (or hyd) roller cam small journal required.
Full roller rockers 1.6 ratio.
INT EX
.2-138 103
.3-193 142
.4-233 167
.5-245 183
.6-255 194
.7-259 198
.8-266 201
.9-270 203
Two valve
Natural Aspiration
Fuel 98RON
Unik Racing individual runner injection
Hooker hustler 2"primary 3.5"collectors
Spintech 4" in out
Car is 3300lbs
2 Screen Shots. 1 at 5000 RPM and 1 at 5640 RPM. I never design an automotive cam for less than 2900 FPM mean piston velocity. You'll make more torque and horsepower without loss of driveability at 256 seat duration. Steady state engines or specific manifold vacuum requirements excluded.
Thank you!!! One question can you please explain the tuning lengths. Looking at the 5640 rpm one I understand for example 9.12 for intake max HP and 27.75 for exhaust for max torque are the distance from valve to end of the respective I.e. intake or exhaust tracts but I don't see how they apply for example is it rpm dependent and if so what rpm for each value or am I missing completely how to use that information.
Again thanks it's very timely and useful info!
Dave
Two valve
Natural Aspiration
Fuel 93/94 octane pump gas
Port matched GM LT1 manifold (short runners)
Longtube 4 into 1, 1-3/4" primaries, 3" x 14" collectors, open exhaust
Two valve
Natural Aspiration
Fuel 93/94 octane pump gas
Port matched GM LT1 manifold (short runners)
Longtube 4 into 1, 1-3/4" primaries, 3" x 14" collectors, open exhaust
Sorry for the delay. 2 Screen shots - 1 normal, 1 manipulated to get your current intake profile curve. If you have dyno sheets with CFM, I would love to see them. That is a real stout engine.
Thank you!!! One question can you please explain the tuning lengths. Looking at the 5640 rpm one I understand for example 9.12 for intake max HP and 27.75 for exhaust for max torque are the distance from valve to end of the respective I.e. intake or exhaust tracts but I don't see how they apply for example is it rpm dependent and if so what rpm for each value or am I missing completely how to use that information.
Again thanks it's very timely and useful info!
Dave
You select from the two RPM points, there are labeled TQ and HP. Right above the column of reflection lengths.
Gen 1 Small Block Chevy (1pc rms converted to 2 pc) Dart Pro1 Platinum 200cc heads
# of cylinders = 8
Bore = 4.030"
Stroke = 3.875"
Rod center distance = 6.000"
Piston Pin height 1.062
piston = flat top -7 cc valve relief pockets
head volume = 68cc
head gasket thickness = 0.041"
head gasket bore = 4.19"
block to piston deck = 0.000"
intake valve diameter = 1.940"
exhaust valve diameter = 1.500"
Mech (or hyd) roller cam small journal required.
Full roller rockers 1.6 ratio.
INT EX
.2-138 103
.3-193 142
.4-233 167
.5-245 183
.6-255 194
.7-259 198
.8-266 201
.9-270 203
Two valve
Natural Aspiration
Fuel 98RON
Unik Racing individual runner injection
Hooker hustler 2"primary 3.5"collectors
Spintech 4" in out
Car is 3300lbs
Didn't get an RPM so I have 2 screen shots. 1 has MHPRPM @ 6411, right before the valve area becomes inadequate. 1 has 6700 RPM, where it is inadequate.
That's a pretty neat program and puts me close to what I'm running now... Just more lift on that one and of course mech. roller rather than mech. flat tappet like I have now.
8 cylinders
Bore: 4.030
Stroke: 3.48
Rod: 5.7
Piston comp height: 1.560"
Flat top piston: 5cc valve relief
Head gasket.: .026" x 4.10"
Piston to deck: .014"
Calculated SCR: 10.13:1
2 valves / 2.02", 1.6"
Very good port flow based on 170cc intake runner. ( I see people are posting their flow numbers although you don't specifically ask for it. If it's needed I can add my numbers too)
1.6 ratio rocker
RPM Air Gap intake
Mid length headers with single exhaust (will tune collector lengths via cutouts as per the Pipe Max program recommendation for max torque)
Naturally aspirated on premium fuel.
I'm looking for peak torque rather than all out HP. This is essentially a street car (and a heavy one at 3600+ lbs). As it is, the cam I spec'd for myself makes peak power around 5500 rpm. Moving that up to the 6000 rpm would suit me too.
Thanks
EDIT:
I've added a thumbnail of the cylinder head flow data.
Last edited by skinny z; Oct 10, 2015 at 03:49 PM.
Reason: Grammar...
8 cylinders
Bore: 4.030
Stroke: 3.48
Rod: 5.7
Piston comp height: 1.560"
Flat top piston: 5cc valve relief
Head gasket.: .026" x 4.10"
Piston to deck: .014"
Calculated SCR: 10.13:1
2 valves / 2.02", 1.6"
Very good port flow based on 170cc intake runner. ( I see people are posting their flow numbers although you don't specifically ask for it. If it's needed I can add my numbers too)
1.6 ratio rocker
RPM Air Gap intake
Mid length headers with single exhaust (will tune collector lengths via cutouts as per the Pipe Max program recommendation for max torque)
Naturally aspirated on premium fuel.
I'm looking for peak torque rather than all out HP. This is essentially a street car (and a heavy one at 3600+ lbs). As it is, the cam I spec'd for myself makes peak power around 5500 rpm. Moving that up to the 6000 rpm would suit me too.
Thanks
EDIT:
I've added a thumbnail of the cylinder head flow data.
1 screen shot with supplied port flows and 1 screen shot with adjusted intake flow to represent manifold attached.
Oops I copied the wrong flow data, not the heads on this engine (max rpm should be way over 7500 for the short block, having lightweight components like pankl rods, je short skirted pistons and a howards lightened, drilled and spin balanced forged fully profiled crank)
Oops I copied the wrong flow data, not the heads on this engine (max rpm should be way over 7500 for the short block, having lightweight components like pankl rods, je short skirted pistons and a howards lightened, drilled and spin balanced forged fully profiled crank)
(max rpm should be way over 7500 for the short block, having lightweight components like pankl rods, je short skirted pistons and a howards lightened, drilled and spin balanced forged fully profiled crank)
