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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
I bought a 84 Camaro without engine and transmission 2 months ago, but the body is mint, especially the under of the car and floor which is in the same condition than a 7-8 years old car! (I'm from Canada with a lot of road salt and I have not seen a lot of theses thirdgen camaros on road since at least 15 years).
I found an old 305 4-barrel engine and a 700r4 transmission for 300$ together. The engine was not running for 2 years, but was into a midly heated garage. I don't know the mileage of the engine, but I have made some tests before disassembling the engine. It was really important for me to disassemble the engine to see the internal conditions before putting it in the car.
Since I have a lot budget, I don't want to rebuild it. It's my second car and I don't need to have a lot of performance, but a good tune up to make sure the car have reasonable efficiency (MPG) and good reliability is important, because it will be my daily driver for 5 months per year. About the oil consumption, It's not a problem if I have to add a few oil, and I will put 10w40 or 20w50 if it helps for oil consumption.
I plan to tune up the engine to make sure it's reliable for the next 50 000 miles, and after that, it is possible I'll put a 350 or something like that.
I disassembled the engine to change ALL gaskets to make sure I'll not blow an head gasket after 500 miles driving the car and to check all the internals.
I know some people will say that it worth it to make a full rebuild since the engine is disassembled, but this work took me about 2 hours, so it's not really a problem for me. The biggest problem is the sum of all the «good to replace parts» that could be really expensive for an old 305 engine. I just want to make sure all is ok for the next 50k miles and change parts in prevention only if it's really risky for reliability to take a chance.
Before disassembling the engine, I did a compression test. Results dry, with 5 cycles, at WOT are...
Cyl 1 : 158psi
Cyl 2 : 162psi
Cyl 3 : 175psi
Cyl 4 : 178psi
Cyl 5 : 165psi
Cyl 6 : 171psi
Cyl 7 : 170psi
Cyl 8 : 154psi
The heads gaskets seemed not totaly worn, but there was a lot of carbon which passed over the chrome circle around the cylinders.
I did'nt check the valves with gas yet.
I have checked a lot of things on the engine that are not on the pictures :
-Cam is visually in very good condition
-Lifters are not worn
-Timing chain is not loose
-When I try to shake the crankshaft in 2 sides (trust bearing and main bearings), it's tight.
-When I try to shake rod bearings, it seems tight.
I removed a couple of bearings caps to have a good idea of the engine bearings condition.
Crank seems in very good condition
Rod bearings seems not new, but it's not on copper.
A second crank journal, good visual condition.
Second rod bearing, seems in same condition that the first. *Note that I have checked the second 1/2 moon of bearings on piston rod side, which were in same condition that on the cap side on the picture. Before assembling the engine, I will remove ALL rod bearings caps (without removing pistons) to make sure there are in the same condition, but I assume that there are in similar conditions at this point. Same thing for main bearings.
Cylinders condition not seem new at all, but the compression numbers were not so bad. Do you think a scotch bright trick without removing the pistons is a good idea?
The ridges at the up of the piston is feelable with my nail, but not so bad.
There are some picks, surface rust and stains on the cylinders which seems bad, but I feel nothing with my finger.
According to the fact my budget is low, what should you change on the engine?
I don't want to hone and rering the engine, since it's possible the cylinders are ovalised and the circle rings will not fit good in the engine. Same thing with new bearings, which seems cheaper, but if I install it without polishing crank, i think it may be worse than keeping the old bearings that seems in «ok» condition.
I plan to make my engine in good condition by refreshing the gaskets, and changing some basic things like spark plugs and wires, cap-rotor, maybe mechanical fuel pump and water pump, and cleaning carburetor. I hope the engine will runs good for next 50k miles with this kind of tune up and I'm wondering what could be essential things to change in this engine :
-In prevention
-Or according to the condition of the parts on the picture VS my 50k miles reliability goal.
If you're just going to drive it and not race it, don't mess with any of the hard parts, just put it back together. I can see nothing there alarming that would preclude getting 50k miles out of it.
Replace the valvesprings and valvestem seals. The good ole GM “Z28” springs will handle that cam just fine: https://www.alexsparts.com/sbc-z28-v...-500-max-lift/
Ya already done fugged up. You paid $300 for a 305, and you tore it down... The gaskets you'll need to replace cost more than a 305 is worth. Dont spend a penny more than necessary on a 305. Probably just should have thrown it in and tried getting it running.
At this point, you could clean hell out of it, and reassemble with fresh gaskets, but it could still crap the mattress and waste your gasket set. Or you could rebuild the engine, which would cost several times it's worth, but at least youd know its rebuilt. Could sell or trade or dump the 305 and pick up a used engine you can see and hear run, and just bolt it in... None of those options sounds fun, but neither does the effort to install a mystery engine in a Thirdgen and potentially ending up with money invested in a junk 305.
Sorry for the pessimism but after installing a few engines and trans that people claimed were great only to find rod knocks and missing gears, there's no way I'd go that route again.
If I was in a United stade big city, yes It will be possible to find easily 350s for 100$ at 20 miles from home. I done a lot of calls, and have seen people wanting 800$ for old 350 and 400$ for old 305 alone, same things for 700r4s. Sometimes, having engine and transmission on car is not better since the rust bucket donor cars are not possible to plate without a safety inspection to do a road test, so you can only hear the engine at idle and move the car 10 feet anyway. The second problem is the cost of gaz if i transport an old donnor car on a trailer for several hundred miles, or try to find a 100$ running 350 in United states and cross the border for 300$ of gaz. Most salvage yards nearby had only 305 with injection with the accessory brackets and torque converter from a truck, without carb, and the 700r4 dont have the tail from a camaro: and dont have carbureted 350 in the yard (i called a lot on 250 miles nearby). So i think its not so bad to find this one with a tranny with camaro tail at 50 miles from home for this price. I would like to live in US for most old 350 used engines without paying shipping, gas or brokerage fees! At least gaskets and engine maintenance parts are cheap here too! The engine runned good at idle before disassembling.
To clean the stains and surface rust in cylinders walls, is it a good idea to turn the engine on the stand with the pan upside, than sand in cross hatch motion with a 3000 sandpaper and some wd40, then clean with brake cleaner, then shopvac the cylinders and turn the engine in the right side after making sūre all is clean? (Without removing pistons) safe or bad idea?
I think you got a good deal,a fully dressed 305/700r4 will save you a lot of time and money by not trying to find and buy these item separately.
I put an ss monte carlo 305/2004r combo in my 82 camaro(Z28 clone) in my signature pic I put together 20 years ago and it made decent power and sounded good.I had shorty headers and a flowmaster with a crappy y-pipe and 3.08 gears.I got pretty good gas mileage and I really was happy with the 305.
As far as the motor I would do what you said and inspect all the rod and main bearings,if good then I would torque them back down.Clean the cylinder walls as five7kid said,clean up the cylinder heads and valves,install new valve springs and seals,re-seal and re-assemble the motor.
Do you know if anything was wrong with the trans and does it have the correct tailhousing for the torque arm mount?
Don't know if the trans works correctly, but I have the correct tailhousing. It's the most important for me, because it's easy to find a healthy tranny without the right tailhousing and install mines. But I will change filter and oil, install it and make a try...
I will reassemble the engine next week with new gaskets... If i change nothing, it Costs me only 40$ to refresh all old gaskets and have a look on the engine internals to make sūre it's reliable... Do you suggest changing other parts before reassembling ? For a 4 year 50k miles goal... Not more than that, but it's important to stay reliable with a correct performance and gas mileage during this time. I have a basic tune up on the car : new Water pump, fuel pump, carb rebuild, cap-rotor, wires, spark plugs. I want to stay with a really cheap refresh on engine internals, im tight on budget.
Don't mess with the cylinders - lap the valves in, change the stem seals and put it back together. I wouldn't mess with anything else - it's just money down the drain you could put towards a 350 later. Only thing I did to my 305 that sat for 11 years was the timing chain, pan gasket, and a new balancer (and tune up of course). Balancer will go on my next engine so haven't lost much. After running it a month I did a compression test - 180 to 190 on all 8. This is a tuned port engine from 86 with 155k on it. Runs like a champ. Your appears to have a bit more wear - that's typical of carbed engines.
I stripped ALL the engine to clean and regasket it, intake, heads, pan, timing cover... The only thing i dont stripped were the pistons, camshaft and crankshaft main bearings. I checked every rod bearings (without removing pistons from cylinders) and finally put it back, removed Every lifter to check them and to inspect cam journals. I finally changed the timing chain for 20$ (only the chain) because it was very loose... And it costs me a set of gaskets, 41$ on summit, so 60$ for the engine internals. It costs me a lot more for the basic external maintenance l'īle carb rebuild, fuel pump, spark plugs, wires and cap rotor. Gasket changes was essential, because i have seen the intake gaskets seemed to leak a bit and head gaskets were close from blowing.
03-08-2017, 09:36 AM
