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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Hi all need advice as to what oil I should use in my 82 305 carb camero seems to have low pressure at idle when hot but runs strong and quiet would like to keep it going as long as possible with eventual upgrade to 350 or 383 stroker please advise, thanks.PS vehicle is only used in summer no cold weather driving.
Last edited by Bman1; Apr 1, 2017 at 07:37 AM.
Reason: Added more info.
If the engine is worn and needs repair, using a different grade of oil is just a band-aid fix. It doesn't matter if you run 0-30 synthetic or 15w40 diesel oil, it won't fix an engine that needs to be rebuilt.
Fill it with cheap walmart oil and run it until you replace the engine.
Well it wont last long if you run oil that isn't flat tappet friendly. He said it runs "strong and quiet" - his oil pressure reading may just be a gauge or sending unit issue. I wouldn't assume the engine is trash based on the gauge reading alone.
Could be. I would definitely verify why the low pressure reading before making a call on what to do with the engine. An oil analysis is only about $20 also and can tell you a lot about what's going on in there.
Yeah but if you read farther in the thread a lot of that first post is not agreed upon. I build performance Subaru engines and they are still flat tappet today, in 2017. Yes a brand new STI is flat tappet. And I have seen pitted, damaged camshaft lobes from running crap Walmart oil. More than once. We run Dominator race oil in all our builds - generally 15w50 with high volume oil pumps due to increased clearance, high oil temps in racing, aluminum blocks, etc. We don't have problems with scuffing or lobe pitting. This oil is in the 1300 to 1600 ppm of ZDP.
Z-rod would be better for a daily/seasonal. It has much higher TBN. The Dominator we use has to be changed every 3k.
Change your oil sending unit ($35), because I thought that I too had an oil pressure issue. In addition to the sending unit, I installed a "tee" fitting and 1" oil pressure guage as co-witness.
You've received excellent oil recommendations. Personally, I use Shell Rotella T4 and Rislone 3X ZDDP AND PHOSPHOROUS additive.
Yeah but if you read farther in the thread a lot of that first post is not agreed upon.
Exactly why it's interesting. If it really was a GM bulletin it's a credible source, but further down there are other (probably) credible sources disagreeing.
I totally agree that the oil pressure gauge should "not" be trusted.
I call the gauges GM put in these cars " Dummy" gauges. The only one I even come close to trusting is the Speedometer.
I would put a new oil sender/switch in it to start with.
The Chevy Small Block is one of the greatest engines ever made and "if" taken care of that little 5.0 can stay in decent shape for a "VERY" long time.
Cheep ( in price )Walmart Oil "is" what I use.
It just happens to be a "top tier" Totally Synthetic Extended Performance Mobil 1 , 5W-30, 5qt jug on sale for $25.00. That's only $5.00 a Qt.
They also make it in 10w-30.
Add a $10.00 Extended Performance Mobil 1 "Oil Filter" and your out the door for $35.00 + tax with excellent "quality" products. You don't have to skimp with Generic crap oil.
And just because it says "Extended Performance" does not mean you should run it for an extremely "Extended" amount of time/miles.
My car is only driven a few miles every day, some city and some highway and I change it every 7 to 8 months.
I started to use it when I bought the car with 100,000 miles on it 11 years ago. The car had leaking valve guide gaskets and had the gray/white puff of smoke cumming out of the tail pipes for about a year then cleared up entirely.
I give credit to the oil I'm using.
His tired 305 isn't a high dollar race engine and doesn't need expensive oil.
I agree. There are still hundreds of thousands of L05 powered Chevy trucks going up and down the road with 200,000+ mile flat tappet engines and I bet most of them are running what ever cheap conventional motor oil they can buy at the local Wal-Mart.
On all my high mile engines (talking 150,000 to 265,000) I ran (or run) the pennzoil high mileage 10W-30 (since Quaker State stopped making Defy -RIP-). Never had any issues and if the mileage is any indicator they kept living!
I typically run 5W30 Mobil 1 synthetic in my cars. I started adding a zinc additive to my flat tappet cars because I'm paranoid like that. Could be overkill.
Incidentally, the Mobile 1 filters are made by Champion Labs. They also make Amsoil, and Royal Purple filters. So whoever has it cheaper.....
Rick
Cut them open. There not going to be the same including the element.
I pick a product that I can trust and stick with it.
Made at the same plant on the same line does not matter to me.
I don't believe in bouncing around to different brands to save a buck.
Cut them open. There not going to be the same including the element.
I pick a product that I can trust and stick with it.
Made at the same plant on the same line does not matter to me.
I don't believe in bouncing around to different brands to save a buck.
It's been done. There's pictures on many forums. They are identical. Champion Labs is the originator of the design and builds them under contract for all three brands. There's no difference at all. They are all about the same price point though so there's not much savings to be had. I mention it in case you can find one but not the other where ever you may b shopping.
It's been done. There's pictures on many forums. They are identical. Champion Labs is the originator of the design and builds them under contract for all three brands. There's no difference at all. They are all about the same price point though so there's not much savings to be had. I mention it in case you can find one but not the other where ever you may b shopping.
Rick
Read this, including it's many links. It should answer all the questions on oil filters you could possibly have. It cuts through all the marketing BS and shows you which filters are the best to use. http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articl...lterstudy.html
Huh - in the case of that particular model filter, the M1 filter is quite a bit crappier than the Amsoil/Royal Purple. Interesting. I'll stick with my Amsoil filters since I sell the stuff retail at my shop. Makes it pretty convenient.
None of the filters other than the Amsoil/Royal Purple (which are essentially the same filter from Champion Labs) have much of a hope of trapping the really damaging stuff that's between 5 and 25 micron. Which is the most damaging particulate size range.
I've discussed this with the tech guys at Amsoil at length. If you really want to get it clean you add a bypass filtration system that pulls out everything down to 1.5 micron. That's what all the semi's run. It's not uncommon to run the oil 1,000,000 miles with only filter changes and top-offs with bypass level filtration. It will pull the black carbon out of the oil and make it look clean too.
Rick
Last edited by GeneralDisorder; Apr 4, 2017 at 10:46 AM.
None of the filters other than the Amsoil/Royal Purple (which are essentially the same filter from Champion Labs) have much of a hope of trapping the really damaging stuff that's between 5 and 25 micron. Which is the most damaging particulate size range.
I've discussed this with the tech guys at Amsoil at length. If you really want to get it clean you add a bypass filtration system that pulls out everything down to 1.5 micron. That's what all the semi's run. It's not uncommon to run the oil 1,000,000 miles with only filter changes and top-offs with bypass level filtration. It will pull the black carbon out of the oil and make it look clean too.
Rick
On a similar note, I have seen guys running dual filters and have always wondered about it's (second filter) actual effectiveness.
I sure do love "what's the best oil?" threads. I knew before I opened it that it would be entertaining.
Especially interesting is the fact that the OP has exactly one post on TGO, and hasn't come back since starting the thread. But the debate has gone on and on.
There might have been a lot of trucks with flat tappet cams out there running Wal-Mart oil, but the last Chevy truck with flat tappets was made 22 years ago. And that was before they started taking ZDDP out of oils. There are many more trucks out there on the road now that have roller lifters, and they don't need the ZDDP. Personally, everything I currently own has roller lifters, the last flat tappet engine was pulled in 2005. It wasn't a problem 12 years ago, but it's a problem now. If you're going to run a flat tappet engine today, you need to use an oil that is up to the task, even if it's only during the summer. You DON'T want to just go to Wal-Mart and pick up the cheapest stuff they have.
But, back to the OP's apparent concern, yes, verify your oil pressure with a mechanical gauge. The dash gauge is not the best indicator of your engine's health.
The owner's manual for my '86 Camaro recommends 5w30. The engine is 31 years old, only 60,000 miles, and has never been rebuilt. 5w30 conventional oil is working just fine.
305's run low oil pressure at idle. Check the service manual and verify with a mechanical gauge on the engine. The dash gauge is all over the place. But, even if it's low (I think like between 5-10 psi at idle) is normal. It should come up under acceleration.
If the engine fails, guess what...It's going to be rebuilt. I don't expect this to be a million-mile engine and I'm guessing you aren't expecting your '82 to be either.
Use whatever the owner's book or shop/service manual says to use. I think 10-40 was recommended at one point (at least that's what my service manual says). Pick a weight appropriate to the temperatures the engine operates in, and stick with it. Change it regularly--I'd stick with 3k intervals on an old carbureted engine for conventional oil.
The owner's manual for my '86 Camaro recommends 5w30. The engine is 31 years old, only 60,000 miles, and has never been rebuilt. 5w30 conventional oil is working just fine.
Use whatever the owner's book or shop/service manual says to use. I think 10-40 was recommended at one point (at least that's what my service manual says). Pick a weight appropriate to the temperatures the engine operates in, and stick with it. Change it regularly--I'd stick with 3k intervals on an old carbureted engine for conventional oil.
Whatever the owner's manual says for a 30-35 year old car is irrelevant. Oils have changed since these cars were made. Perhaps you haven't been listening.
5W-30 might be the primary recommendation, but you'll also see 10W-30 is fine as well. 10W-40 is not on the list.
Whatever the owner's manual says for a 30-35 year old car is irrelevant. Oils have changed since these cars were made. Perhaps you haven't been listening.
5W-30 might be the primary recommendation, but you'll also see 10W-30 is fine as well. 10W-40 is not on the list.
You posted some snippy comment about me not listening, only to agree that 5w30 is a fine choice.
You're right- oils have changed over the last 35 years. They perform better than ever, making 5w30 an ok choice even for warm climate. Bonus that in my case, it's a recommendation found in the owner's manual.
The only reason I'd recommend a 3k interval with conventional oil in this case is-
a) it doesn't sound like this car is driven a whole bunch, summer only so maybe it sees a lot of short or infrequent trips.
b) older engines with miles have larger clearances due to wear. They have old seals, and aren't as closed to the outside as newer engines are. Carbs can also degrade the engine oil if not in good working order. So, shorter intervals or a time-based interval might be necessary here.
The service manual I have for my car specifies 10w40. I don't know why, but it's in there. However, that recommendation is not in the owner's manual supplied with the car.
What's not in the oils anymore. All you're talking about is viscosity, and viscosity is not the issue.
ZDDP? Yeah.
Not to be entirely dismissive, but many a flat-tappet cam survived hundreds of thousands of miles with new, lower-zinc oils. For street driving, the concern doesn't even register for me personally. If we were talking about a high dollar car, a high dollar engine purpose-built to race, I'd probably get more into it.
But I know people have their schtick about oil. There's no telling them what's right or wrong, once they've made up their minds.
There might have been a lot of trucks with flat tappet cams out there running Wal-Mart oil, but the last Chevy truck with flat tappets was made 22 years ago. And that was before they started taking ZDDP out of oils.
I believe that SG was the last grade with proper ZDDP levels before the EPA mandated the reductions. SG was last available 1992-93. Another reduction took place in 1994-95, and that is when flat tappet camshafts really began to fail.
There might have been a lot of trucks with flat tappet cams out there running Wal-Mart oil, but the last Chevy truck with flat tappets was made 22 years ago. And that was before they started taking ZDDP out of oils.
GM wasn't the only manufacturer to utilize engines with flat tappet cams.
Wranglers and GC's used a flat-tappet 4.0L produced through 2006.
Not sure about others.
How many of those flat-tappet GM engines saw another 100k in the last 10 years?
I sleep better at night using the additive.
There are plenty of articles out there, both for and against.
But I can't dispute what has worked for over 70 years - and that is zinc & phosphorus.
GM wasn't the only manufacturer to utilize engines with flat tappet cams.
Wranglers and GC's used a flat-tappet 4.0L produced through 2006.
Not sure about others.
How many of those flat-tappet GM engines saw another 100k in the last 10 years?
If I remember correctly the 350 tbi in my truck is the last of GM's flat tappet cam engines. It's a 1995, they went to vortec's in 96.
Pushing 186,000 miles, 10W-30 Quaker state Defy has been the oil for the last . . . .10 years? That's getting harder to find though so I'm going to have to swap to pennzoil high mileage (which I use in my current 4.0 litre Jeep @ 150,000 miles AND my previous 4.0 litre jeep that was at 265,000 miles before I sold it - still running like new).
