Camarillo

1990 camaro 305 tbi
new starter. New battery, alternator good. Fresh grease on ignition control mod, plugs and wires good. Good fuel pressure and combustion. All vacuum lines good, no obvious shorts or loose grounds I know of.
After driving a while at operating temps (1 hour) the car will not start if I turn it off for more than 5 minutes. After a while cooling down, maybe an hour, it usually re starts but not always.

I am at a loss for ideas going forward. I am not noticing the sound of fuel pump priming or solenoid engaging when this issue occurs. All systems seem to have power as all other electrical systems work.

Any insight or suggestions Appreciated.

Camarillo

So I let it sit for 2 plus hours and it still won’t start. I. Researched the VATS system then I looked closely at the chip in my key, and noticed it was dirty I nail scratched it to clean the mating surfaces and the damn car started right up.

I honestly have have no clue if it was just dumb luck or an issue with the key or resistor in the key. Or something else entirely. This intermittent problem is super frustrating. Has anyone have intermittent VATS problems?

maks10

Reading quickly this sounds like a starter connection issue or a loose connection elsewhere. Do you get a clicking sound from starter when you turn key?

Camarillo

Starter connections are tight and solid. Checked them yesterday.

maks10

So I had a similar problem where my collectors where leaking and hot exhaust fumes made my connections flakey after a long drive. I’d get a click from starter but no turn over unless it sat for a while to cool. Also my s terminal was a spade connector so that didn’t help. So if it sounds similar check that. To confirm I ran 12v from battery straight to s terminal when this happened and it started up. Also obvious would be to check power cable on battery (ground as well). I’ve had a loose connection there as well. Hope this helps. Vats wouldn’t allow any starter engagement iirc

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

OK, just GOTTA ask, before giving "advice".

Is this a no-crank, or a crank no-start?

Camarillo

When it is a no start it is a no crank no start, and no solenoid (I think). The relay clicks and fuel pump primes. When it does turn it starts every time. And it starts quickly. I tried the original key and got it home today, but when I tried the generic key (with chip) it would not start at all. I have full power for all other systems when the key turns.

i did notice the alarm tone sound cuts out if I move the ignition around some, so I am wondering if it is a failing key tumbler (ignition).

Last night it would not crank or start at all, even cold and sitting for hours.

While typing this this I tried the generic key with no luck. Tried the original immediately after and no luck. Then waiting a few minutes I tried original again and it fired right up 4 times in a row. Generic key immediately following 4 starts and nothing! Tried original again after generic failure and it it started again.

I think the generic key is trash... after i cleaned it it started the car on my lunch break, but I tried gently filing the edge to clean up the uneven surface and now it will not start the car at all.

I will get another copy of original key and update information after a while.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like the typical starter problem wherein you need a new starter. Even though it seems like it would be the solenoid.

Replace it. Rationalize the parts cannon as, it was old anyway and might fail anytime.

Camarillo

I installed a brand new starter last night. And the one that was on there had 30,000 miles and about 10 years on it. Solid connections on both before and after.
i have owned this car since 2004 put about 60k miles on it and have replaced almost everything over the years except the long block, wiring, and suspension. Currently it has 297k miles. Engine was replaced around 120k according to previous owner records.
I am now spending Friday night stressing out trying to find a place that sells resistors in my area. I have the VATS key number I need and I can’t find anyplace that sells resistors here, no one seems to even know what they are.
After damaging the resistor in the key today by filing it, I am fairly confident it is the key. If not I could go for a third starter but would hate to blindly throw parts at it, other than a resistor for vats bypass or a new GM key.

maks10

If possible measure the resistance of the 2 keys you have hopefully they match and if so the generic key should work with matching resistance. RadioShack sells them and probably could ask Best Buy.

Camarillo

2.37k on the original, and the other key after filing says open or 3.4–5k. I didn’t read it during the day before I tried to smooth it. Weird thing is the key worked sometimes, most of the time actually.
The original problem may still be lurking but it is exactly like this key issue

maks10

ok, my good guess is it’s easier to bypass so hopefully find resistors tomorrow and then go from there. Good you have the original resistance to match. Good luck and try not to stress. You could be right with keys and/or ign but first need to fix this. Then probably look more closely into what exactly is being powered and not when key is turned. Keep us posted

Camarillo

UPDATE: I have it Working now by tying a 2000 ohm and at 390 ohm resistor in series I got 2390 with 2% tolerance. The 20 extra ohms are only .08% of the load, so I am within working limits! The car starts Now, albeit slowly. I will get it warmed up and see what happens next. I really hope this solves the puzzle!!! Fixed for $3.50! If this does in fact bandaid the issue I will add a proper bypass or replace my ignition.

Found these at Frys after about 10 minutes of examining all available resistors, no variable resistors to be found. I thought about adding another in parallel to bring the 2390 down to 2370, but figured I would try one of each of these in series.

I squeezed the connector back together with my series circuit resistor group tied in to the female plug ports from the ignition. I tried it and it didn’t work, but had the DUH moment and realized I needed to snip a wire so that I didn’t have 2390 in parallel with 2370 or some different load reading. Cut a wire and it worked. This proves the key was the fault, so far. It cranks slower now but does fire.

maks10

Great! Had to do the same before I started tuning. That’s one way to bypass, another would be tuning in prom. Hopefully fixed. What place ended up with resistors? I think our RadioShack closed

Camarillo

Frys electronics in Oxnard had them. Not a single place in my town had them since our radio shack closed. I have 5 extra of each resistor in case anyone else with a VAT 8 key needs a bypass.
I taped it up and it looks factory now lol. Thanks for the input everyone. The same problem key works fine now with the bypass for the last 2 hours of driving and testing.

Looking back at my posts here from 10 years ago it seems like this key may have been causing some problems even back then. I don’t know how I never looked into the vet system before.

maks10

Cool! Thanks for updating thread for people in the future who may have a similar problem