Where are you located, because this member has a running 305 he is pulling for an LS swap:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...700r4-78k.html

 

Im in North Texas area near DallasTX

 

Yeah, that was disheartening to see..explains why it didn't run like it should, LOL. The other bad thing is i need to be able to drive it at least to move the car from the garage to the front of the house from time to time . Promised the wife she could have the garage back before summer. Soooo I will probably have to go the route of the CHEAP cam/lifter you suggested. I REALLY do appreciate everyones input. Y'all are great and I'm glad to have the TGO to help us rookies.

 

My opinion is drain the oil, get a Summit Kit, some Howards Z28 Valve springs since you've got the heads off throw it back together and send it till you get a new bullet to throw in. While not absolutely certain the 250-300 is worth the risk IMO to get it back together and see if it holds together. 100% admit it's a toss of the dice but I've done it myself before with a Pontiac engine and did okay on it.

The exception may be if you can find another cheap small block to throw in. I'd be real inclined to dig up a Vortec 350 long block and an aftermarket carb intake if possible and go that route. You'd make quite a bit more power and not be into that much bank.

 

She'll get over it , they always do ....

And if not , it'll give her something to nag about that'll hopefully distract her from something else that bothers her , you know , like that new bathroom she wants ya to build for her ...

In fact , there ya go , promise her something in return for breaking the garage promise , and of course you'd BEST follow through with that one . You get to take a couple months to build your car in the garage , in exchange for building her that nice new bathroom (Or "She Shed" , or whatever else it is that she may want) once the new engine is in .

I say this because I 100% agree with Sofa on this one , with all the metal that's been pumped through that engine's bearings it could die a month after you spend the money for the cam , lifters , gaskets , and all the other incidentals needed to put it back together . You already know you want to keep the car for a long time , and any dollar you spend now on an engine you intend to throw away next year anyway is literally just pissing money into the wind , money that could be getting you closer to the engine that we both know you really want to be in the car .

 

A quick check on rockauto showed cam kits starting at $ 65 . Not the right way, but that, a felpro head gasket set, couple oil filters, SOME 1988 AND OLDER VEHICLE OIL(high ZDDP) might get you by. You did say you were just learning, learn on a damaged engine.

Also, could park the car and lease a cheap Corolla/Chevy Cruze, for 24-36 months. When the LT1 in my son's 96 Impala took a $HIT, I leased a new 2016 Chevy Cruze LT for $ 92 a month w/ only $2000 down. I went through costco.com car buying program.

 

Yeah that's an unbelievable BUMMER. I feel your pain.

Problem will be, the metal chips and debris from that cam failure, is all now in the crankcase, where it can get into the oil; and the filter NEVER catches all of it. It doesn't take very much finding its way into the bearings to ruin them and the crankshaft, and of course, that's DEATH to the motor. In fact I think I see chips on the base of some of the other lifters. Having also had that happen to me more than once, like NoEmissions, I'd put the odds of it ever being useful again without a rebuild, at less than 25%. It's not "absolutely certain" that it's smoked, but the odds are definitely not in your favor.

You're at a fork in your path. If I may quote a famous idiot, or maybe he was so smart that none of us were on his level enough to recognize it, "when you come to a fork in the road, take it".

I guess your choice now depends on how lucky you feel. My advice would be, spend as little as possible on it (which would be, zero), and instead accelerate your plans for replacing it. If you decide to try to repair it, spend as little as possible while assuring the best chance of success... cam & lifters, springs (the Howards ones are fine), timing set, gaskets. Find some kind of magnet you can stick into the oil drain plug hole and use it to sweep as many metal chips as possible out of the pan. Get a magnetic drain plug. Change the oil and filter RIGHT AFTER the first startup, and every couple hundred miles afterwards. DO NOT use synthetic oil; Rotella 10W-30 is probably the best eeeeeezyest cheeeepest choice. Use either break-in lube or a THIN smear of moly grease on the new cam and lifter bases; if you use moly, don't use very much, as it ends up plugging oil filters and laying in the bottom of the pan like a sludge, if you get carried away. When startup time comes we'll help you through break-in process, which is necessary nowadays although in times gone by it wasn't really much of an issue, because of the way oil has changed in the last 20 - 30 years.

 

I would also suggest, if you are going to try to revive it, use the magnet to get as many shavings as you can out of the lifter gallery, under the intake manifold. Shavings are bad. Make as many as possible go away.

 

Just look at it as if your year with this motor has expired, and go to the 350 as you had planned.
😎 it's not worth spending any money on this now as others have said as it will need a complete overhaul, and who knows if it will even pass the 2nd step. Mag.
feel for ya but this is how we learn sometimes. Cant remember who posted about seeing the underside of lifters but good thinking!!

 

Did I miss why no compression in 6?

 

A 96-2000 350 is anywhere from $500 - $1000 at the junkyard. Pay more, get a more cherry motor, maybe even a guarantee. Pay less, take more chances. That, plus an Edelbrock Performer intake for Vortec, and some labor and fluids and whatnot along with any might-as-wells like maybe a water pump, and you're back on the road, with 50% more horsepower you would have by repairing the inferior motor. You can use the existing carb, no need to change that. The exhaust you have now SUCKS but you can deal with that later. With that, your power will be around DOUBLE what that POS 305 will give you after repair.

If it was me I wouldn't bother with trying to revive that 305. Throw it in the trash and move on.

I'm pretty slow changing out a motor in one of these cars. Last time I did mine it took most of a day; from maybe 10 in the morning to 4 in the afternoon. You're probably faster than me.

www.car-part.com Look for 96-98 truck or van 5.7, NOT 4.3, 4.8, 5.3, or 8.1. (from 99-up they get all mixed in with the 5.3 & 4.8 listings so they're harder to sort out). You're in TX and I realize pickups are kinda rare there, you might have trouble finding one in a junkyard but there's enough construction companies and such everywhere,so probably not. VIN code R. Not J, M, T, V, W, or Z.

 

Pickups RARE in Texas? Your kidding, right?

IMO, CHEAP cam kit and Pray to the mechanic God, or

best way, a 350 swap now.

 

I can do that. I'm a kid.

 

As of today, my plan is to roll the dice. Going with the cheap cam and lifters replacement. This is my first tear down/put back together so it's a chance to learn how to do some of these things. If I damage anything or it implodes, no harm no foul. I'm still learning things so i got that going for me.:-) If a get a few hundred miles out of it I'll consider it a win, if I get more I'll go buy lotto tickets. To be honest, if i get it back together and it starts I'll consider it a win..setting my goals low on this one. I will get back to the tear down this week and order the cam/lifter set. I'll use all the advice given on the magnet clean up, oil additives etc.I'm sure you will see other posts from me asking more questions as i move through this process.
The folks on this forum are awesome !!

 

As others have said.......try to flush away debris. Hopefully it is more powdered, than chips. I would get a gallon of mineral spirits(often called Paint Thinner) and, with the oil drain plug out, pour the spirits into the valley and wherever you can. rock cam kits start at $ 65.00. Oil and filter change, maybe a minute after start up. FIND some oil with ZDDP and use Molly assembly lube on the cam lobes. Soak the lifters in oil, for a few hours before instill. Good luck!


Use the cheapest ZDDP OIL OR ADDITIVE, especially for the first 30-60 second run.

 

Cleanliness is godliness, pull motor and install it on a stand then you can pull the oil pan to wash it down.
if you want to remove the rotating assembly, to clean all the parts, you can do that too and you can give the main, rod, & cam bearings a visual inspection to make sure OR just leave the bottom end together and wash it all with kerosene, or diesel.

if you take it apart keep the rods on the pistons & number them so they go back in the same holes, same with the main caps.
Then you can dingle ball hone #6 hole. The old rings will re-seat because the hone cross hatching gives them something to "grab" onto.

Hopefully you just chewed up those lifters because the engine sat so long without starting and was dry/stuck on startup OR that was why the car was parked in the first place.. before you put back the motor back in the car pull the distributor and prime the oil pump to get oil thru all the pushrods and on the valvetrain.

good luck.

we all want to hear a motor run but when a motor has sat for many years next time be sure to do 4 simple things before starting it.
1. change the oil and filter
2. try to turn the crank by the crank nut to make sure the bottom end will turn, if not you stop right there because something is "stuck" and will break/damage other parts.
3. pull the valve covers off and prime the oil pump to get oil pumped thru all the pushrods and onto the valve train, this also gets oil to the cam and lifters to prevent a dry start
4. bump start the engine to check the valvetrain action; a sticking; rocker/pushrod/ lifter can be spotted and addressed before damaging an otherwise "good" engine.

 

That is the "School House" way to do it. But OP planned to junk the engine in the next year. Lot of work for a 305 he doesn't want. BUT, it would be a learning experience. I guess it depends on how much time the OP, a married man, wants to commit at this point. Plus his wife wants the garage back. I'd gamble a couple hundred bucks on a lifter kit , personally.

 

PS I have always "Dingle Ball" honed for ring jobs, and would continue to do so.

 

Yes sir I know what that all about I have 3 kids myself. OP said he wanted to learn, and a hurt SBC is great one to learn on. If you don't need any machine shop work it is just time & materials, maybe a few specialty tools but learning does cost some tuition.

 

OP might want to cut open the oil filter, and see if the metal is in dust form, not chips/flakes.

 

My advice if you can swing it is spend the extra $40 for the MTC1 or an extra $20 ENGINETECH ECK766. I'd bet you'll net 25hp at the fly wheel on either and they'd both drop right in.

Clean it out best you can as mentioned then get it back together. If you can hoist it out and check the main and rod bearings out all the better if not so be it. Break in the cam (be sure you break in the cam) and run it for a bit then change the oil and filter. That should help get a lot of the junk out. Be sure you use a break in lube.

Since none of us asked, did you have good oil pressure (as much as one of the stock gauges can be trusted) when you had it running?

 

While I'll agree to keeping it clean for assembly, I've changed main and rod bearings several times on the side of the hwy. Now I know a spun bearing doesn't produce as much foreign debris in a engine like eating a lifter does, but if you drop the pan, flush the crap out of it, and prime the oil system to catch as much crap as you can in the filter, it mostlikely will be fine as long as there are no other hiding issues.
lots of good advice here. Try and take it all in.
I have a cam I would give you if you want. Cant remember the specs, it's nothing crazy, .454 lift I think. I dont have lifters but I'm sure someone here does. Options options are good.

D

 

My 334 (stroked 305) ended up eating the cam & lifters in 19K miles. I already had so much money into this thing, that I had to resurrect it.
So I spent a bunch more money and fired it up on my engine test stand. After the 20 minute cam break-in, I had a tick. Turns out that the "Guaranteed Made in USA" Skip White lifters were actually cheap offshore made crap. The pushrod cups were not correct and as a result, would not pump oil to the rockers below 1300 rpm. But it took only that 20 minutes to destroy my new camshaft.











So here is what I did, and I suggest you do the same if you are going to "roll the dice".
Drain the oil. Install a new cheap oil filter. Put the lifters back in the block. Get about 4 gallons of either diesel fuel or kerosene to flush the block. You will also need a "prelubing" tool that you spin with a drill motor to run the oil pump. It must be the type that seals the pass side oil passage around the distributor shaft. You can also make one from an old distributor.
Pour all 4 gallons into the lifter valley. Let it work for about 10 minutes. Drain and strain through a fine paint strainer. Repeat as many times as necessary until you don't see much crap in the strainer.
Now pour it in again but this time you will run the oil pump to flush the passages in the engine block and the bearings. Rotate the crankshaft 90 degrees every so often. DO NOT USE THE STARTER MOTOR! Drain and strain as many times as necessary until you are satisfied that the block is as clean as you can get it.
Here are a few pics from my flushing:

 

my last .2 cents:

Get yourself a quality roller cam and lifters so you don't have to worry about wiping the new camshaft. Maybe you can get edelbrock flat tappet made is USA but I would confirm that.

I say this because the Quality Control on new flat tappet lifters is horrible, (all the cheap flat tappet cams & lifters are chineseum made.) You don' want to repeat this process because you will get burned and then spend more $$ on tuition.

if you go the 350 SBC route later on you can re-use the new roller cam and lifters, if you go LS route later on you could part it out when you sell the 305.

 

Understood, but a lot of work for possible short lived results.

So while you have the cam out, you need to flush the oil passages. Pull the 3 plugs, might be NPT , might be welsh plugs, aver the 3 passages you'll see above the cam behind the timing cover. You'll want to flush it through there, kind of a back flush as well. Cover things up under the holes for the lifters. You might be able to clean the topend some. Issue is all those fine particles that would be in the crank holes and bearings, they'll continue to chew on things.

Best of luck, might last 100Kmiles, might make it till next week.

 

Flat cam, valves on that/those holes were closed all the time, what won't get in, can't get out.

 

I thought the #6 lifters looked ok. 1 was on the edge. 1 and 2 lifters were chewed up according to the pic unless he mixed them up. Scroll up and look at the pic. It's why I asked. Also, yeah, they are fed, but they had to of been opening the valve some no?

 

We have all been there. I had "0" compression on #8 once...that was an expensive track outing.. but we found the problem and fixed it.. 2 months later I was making 10s passes and the motor has been good ever since.
When ET's start to wane and/or I start to notice excessive valve lash it will be time to pull her out for complete tear down, inspection, and re-refresh.

 

My sensibilities are offended at the effort some would expend to keep a 305 on life support. It was garbage under ideal conditions, it'll never be more than a vegetable. OP has already wasted too much time and money messing with this garbage. He's dead Jim. Throw it away already, cut your losses, stop throwing good time and money after bad.

Get a late Gen I SBC from a truck and put your time and money into that. At least then at the end of the day you'll have what you want.

 

Drew, if the block was windowed or other major failure/damage that needs a machine I shop I am with you 100%.
However a rescued 350 SBC will need machine work and all new internal parts. This is where the $ is for a custom hand-built engine you are paying for the expertise and attention to detail.

This will cost more than a crate motor from a catalog house or a home refresh.

OP said that he wants to learn, on hurt motor, how do to do tear down and refresh because he does not have the funds for the crate motor he wants.
I say let him let learn provided he needs no machine work on his motor. You gotta start somewhere and your own garage is great place.

 

Full disclosure I ran my 305 from '93 to '97 and just added 150 HP N20 kit. Best improvement for any 305 motor in my humble opinion.

I finished my 383 in 1999.
The only things I took off the 305 before selling it on for $450 & 120K miles were the serpentine brackets, accessories, and the N20 parts (plate and solenoids)

I never used the N20 on the 383...
I sold the whole kit in 2010-11 for $450
I sold the 383 for $3K in 2012.
The 421 went in 2013.

 

I saw two chewed up lifters at a glance, would assume (I know) the cam was flat as well. A flat cam lobe look like a smaller journal, pretty much round. If the cam/lifter had some "bump" to it, might need a real super accurate gauge to see a few PSI.. 0 could have been 10 psi...and not be seen.

Not auto related but I've a few gauges around that are 0-2 psi (magnahelics?) incremented to such a small degree makes my head spin, the comp gauges we use probably wont register below some PSI, and really...25 PSI in a cylinder mean a big issue, if it registers.

 

Call Garage Squad.

 

That cam is IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY (except the name on the box) to the Summit 1102.

Also IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY (except the name on the box) to the Summit 1102.

You can get the SAME cam from any of DOZENS of sources. Frankly I have no clue where it's made or any of that; all I know is, people have been putting that cam, and its brethren, into motors that I personally have had experience with, for AT LEAST the 50 years I've been in this hobby.

As said, not a "great" cam; but "good enough" for a cheeeeeep attempt at a half-a$$. Might work; might not; if it doesn't, not out too much $$$; if it does, it's at least "OK" if not stellar. Not that anything that can be done to a wiped-out LG4 is going to be "stellar', butt hay, might as well aim high, right?

The #6 exh lifter in the OP's pics was just starting to go flat. The 2 exh ones were already to the point that the valve spring probably didn't have any pressure left on them; they were pretty much terminated.

Personally I think the OP is not making the best possible decision by trying to flog that dead horse back into the race; but it's his path. He's gotta learn the same way most of us learned this sort of thing. Which wasn't exactly a pleasant experience for me. But all the "advice" in the world is only just that; advice. He's gotta tread his own road.

I hope for his sake that the lifter bores weren't damaged. Obviously NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE will make a cam survive if the lifters aren't held firmly and accurately in the bore, properly pointed at the cam lobes. Yes I've seen more than one block where the metal chips shedding off the lifter & cam, or maybe the heat, DESTROYED the block. At that point you could put a new cam in it every day, and twice on Sundays just for good measure; and it will NEVER EVER not fail.

 

Melling grind that was used back in the 275HP small blocks?

 

AFAIK no factory small block, or any other factory any kind of block from any factory, ever had any of that series of cams in it. I could be wrong of course; words like "never", "none", "always", "all", etc. are problematic; but I feel more confident than usual using such words in this matter.

 

The L31-R is not available until May. https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/12681432.html

 

He may not have the means to pull an engine right now...we know it takes some time/tools/or money.

 

True dat... OTOH, will he have the means a few days from now when his experiment doesn't work? And his bank account is several Benjamins lighter?

Best to acquire the means when faced with such a situation sometimes (most of the time actually), than to try to weasel around it. It's kinda like doing a job half-a$$ed because you don't have the time... when the half-a$$ fails, will you have time to do it right THEN? After already wasting time on the half-a$$? usually best to meet the challenge head-on, not try to dodge it.

 

Probably right, I know Melling used to have grinds that we supposed to be the same at the big HP 327's, also mimicked the Duntov grinds as well, thought that may have been one of them.

 

Does anyone know anything about XP Automotive? They have the L31R long block for $1195. https://spprecision.com/products/che...yABEgI_6fD_BwE

 

A simpler way of saying the above: There's never enough money to build it right, but there's always enough to build it twice!

 

I wouldn't say "several" more like "two and a half to three." For several craigslist a hoist (or ask around if you have gear head buddies they may just lend you one for beer and even help you pull) and go find a JY 350. A TBI engine will probably work if you oval out some of the bolt holes in the intake manifold.

HGs use these HGs at $25ish each
$30ish for a set of intake gaskets and a carb gasket
say $125 for a cam. Should be under 300 for everything including fluids and flushing fluids.

Then again I was picking up 305 long blocks for $50 each at a point in my life. May be worth looking around.

 

Here is a Dallas Craigslist ad: https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/pt...088762256.html

 

 

Yes in fact they did. They, and lots of others, boxed and sold replicas of all the famous factory cams. That POS 151 that came in the 327s, the original "Duntov" from old 283s, and the later "30-30" one that came in the 302, among others; even some of the over-the-counter Chevy racing cams. In fact in the mid 70s I built a 60 over 283 (halfway to a 302... 292 CI) and used a "30-30" I bought over the counter in a Dana / Perfect Circle box. No idea who actually "made" it; just about like front end parts or something, today. You never know what's going to come out of what box.

Be that as it may, the series that the 1102, the old Performer, MTC1, etc. are all a part of, is 6 more or less identically designed lobes; 194, 204, 214, 224, 234, & 244° .050" duration. A 194/204 is very much a stock replacement for a 929, except that it has a bit more lift and steeper ramps. The 204/214 was marketed towards 300 inch engines (283, 289, etc.); the 214/224 for 325 - 350 inchers (318, 327, all the various 350s, 351); the 224/234 for 383, 390, & 400s; and the 234/244 for 450 sizes like all the 455s and the 454. The 234/244 might still also be sold by Edelbrock, unchanged AFAIK since the late 60s or early 70s, as the "Performer RPM" cam. None of these was ever used by any OEM AFAIK.

 

The times have changed. go roller cam

 

And the easiest way to do that, given budget, current events, etc is a used 350 from a late model truck. You don't NEED to rip it apart and check everything out, or change the cam, or any of that. Bolt on intake, exhaust, and accessories that fit a thirdgen, drop it in the car, and drive it until you need or want to rebuild it better. Any decent junkyard engine should last a year.

 

Everyone is right, I won't build a Flat Tappet engine anymore. Never lost one, but haven't built any lately to take a chance.
38 years ago, when metal was good and stuff was made here, I was young and poor, threw together my first 396 with a used solid FT cam and used lifters, oiled them up, fired it off and drove it for 3 years daily without any problems... LOL