aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

That casting number is a 400 from 71-74 or so as I recall. I would not waste the effort to put one in your Camaro for a number of reasons. I love a good pontiac 400 but that doesn't make it a good candidate for you and your car.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

There are few more wasteful rabbit holes you could go down than a Pontiac motor.

Pass.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I have a 70 GTO at my shop right now. Has about a 67 400 in it. Edelbrock manifold and Holley carb. Made a whole 235 HP at the wheels through the 4 speed. Underwhelming to say the least. They are expensive to build and parts aren't as easily available.

A bare block? Junk IMO. You'll spend a crapload of money and have a major headache installing it. Won't perform significantly better than an L31 350 that is 30 years newer. For comparison, my L31 with only a cam and valve train put down 325 through an automatic.

GD

aliceempire

iTrader: (14)

To echo on this, EVERY part for a Pontiac block is more expensive. In some cases 3 times the cost of a SBC. When stepping up from stock and buying good cylinder heads and roller cam etc, a pontiac is almost a 500hp minimum build but it cost 15k and up.. Parts are less available, fewer choices by far. The technology that never got updated by the factory unlike the SBC which helps keep choices open and prices down. Not to mention build shops are far less familiar so they often don't get built right.
Now say you have every part of that 400, it probably made 250hp out the box in the 70's. Years of use it's not going to make that now.
It also won't fit super easily. Thirdgens were never intending on having the taller deck Pontiac block in them, so you have to customize to fit. Meaning more down time of the car you want to drive.

Long story short. Sell that 400 block to a Pontiac guy that can use it. Help fund your actual project.

90sRSCamaro

I was thinking about cleaning it up and selling it but not sure how much I could get out of it.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Roughly what you paid for it. Cleaned up or not.

Don't waste money cleaning anything.

90sRSCamaro

Got the block for free. So yea, and by cleaning I mean getting a pressure washer to it and get some of the dirt and grime off.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

He knows you got it for free. That's about what it's worth. Free. Cleaned or not cleaned. They are not desirable.

GD

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Can't tell you how many times I've had to pay to get piles of crap hauled off of my property. 305s, 327s, 326s, 400s, all manner of Frod crap, ... let's not even go into transmissions.

The reason you can get that for free is, that's the high end of the fair market value. If it's in your driveway and you want it gone, it has NEGATIVE value. Keep that in mind before you accept it: d00d would have to pay somebody to haul it off, you're doing HIM (not yourself) a favor by "accepting" it for free.

90sRSCamaro

Well I intended to scrap it when I got it. Since the guy had tons of metal everywhere I asked him if I can get some for scrap and he said I can have the block.

Gordon G E

Yea he's right. Not alot of call for the pontiac. 400. And good score for scrapping the metal. Although scrap is way down. But for funding your project every little bit helps.

90sRSCamaro

Yea, it's down here too but it goes up in the winter so I got a scrap pile started trying to get some built up so this winter I can scrap it all. My girlfriend wanted to make the block into a coffee table though so not sure what to do there.

Gordon G E

Awfully heavy coffee table.

90sRSCamaro

Yea, but tons of people do it. They even make camshafts into lamp posts. Pretty interesting though.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

No, "tons of people" don't do that. It's a JOKE that everybody like to make, not a PLAN. Nobody wants that crap in their house. Above all, it's not a good idea for a high-school kid's first item of furniture.

You keep talking about "car shows". If that's what's important to you, you don't need to swap the engine AT ALL.

You're 16, little to no income, little to no savings. You have, as far as you've mentioned, exactly ONE car... THIS one. If you disable it, you WALK, No telling for how long. If you start collecting parts without a clear, detailed, documented, "change of plans" proof PLAN, you will, like everyone else that starts on this kind of project without one, find yourself buying something, discovering it won't quite work or isn't quite compatible with something else, running across something else that tickles your fancy, etc.; and in the end, accumulating a giant pile of parts that don't fit and don't work and that you can't sell, a car that STILL doesn't work, NEVER accomplishing ANYTHING, and spending ALL YOUR MONEY wastefully.

I disagree with the idea that this is a "rich man's hobby". I DO agree however, that it's EXPENSIVE, and it's UNNECESSARY, in the sense that it's ... a HOBBY, not a "need" or a life goal or anything like that. You're not "investing", you're PLAYING WITH TOYS. It's a hobby for people with DISPOSABLE INCOME: that is, a sufficient income that leaves cash available AFTER housing, food, education, medical care, retirement savings, and so forth.

My advice to you would be, FORGET about an engine swap. If you want to take this car to shows, make it SHOW WORTHY, before worrying about any of that. Clean it up, make it work RIGHT, restore it to BEAUTY and desirability. Nobody goes to car shows to see some old dirty wore-out ragged hooptie; they go to see NICE cars. Make yours one of those FIRST. If it's not all beat up and clapped out the way old cars tend to get, with torn stained seats and dirty carpet and dents and faded paint and rusted-out exhaust and 4 different maypops on the wheels and all the parts covered with mud, rust, and grease, that would be a great place to start.

FOCUS on that instead of swapping the engine. It costs AHELLUVALOT less, and might even increase your enjoyment of the car, to drive around something clean and pretty and well-cared-for. Leave engine swapping alone until well on down the road.

Rob 97 Z28

iTrader: (3)

Just my $.02 as I remember being 16 years old in HS, Super proud of having saved and bought my first car ('83 Firebird, 4 speed, NO options whatsoever & to top it off it was an Iron Duke car lol).


Anywho, whats the budget here??

Thats the first question that shoulda been asked lol....oh wait, HS kid? Okay, I'd say this is actually alot easier that it appears. You want a 350 sb or LS for what? More power I hope you're saying. Okay check. But you say you're in HS so than means you're on less than a shoe string budget, but you want more power under the hood and want the pride of doing it yourself? Okay sounds good, I like it. If I was you're old man heres what I'd say:

*Find a used stock LT1 (2nd gen, Clinton-era LT1 lol) cam or a used mild LT1 cam for sale on that other forum (C.....Z28.com)
*Hit up some junkyards and find a Silverado/Sierra/Yukon/Tahoe/Van whatever with Vortec 5000 (thats the 96-00 SBC Vortec 305 NOT 350) and grab those heads
*Find a mild but suitable valvespring that'll work with the cam, order new valvestem seals, retainers & shims if needed.
*Get a mild (relative i know) mill done (knock the chambers down 4cc or so)to the heads at your local machine shop AFTER they pressure test & magnaflux the heads and confim they are a good core
*Order the Holley TBI intake manifold and TB assembly


That right there is money well spent for a HS budget, you can retain your engine, don't even need to pull it, you'll get a lot more power (SBC Vortec heads really are a great cast iron budget friendly factory piece). You'll be able to retain your factory fuel injection and all that (pcm for CEL concerns etc)

All this being done, I would NOT neglect a fresh clutch in the car, good cap & rotor, plugs, wires, filters etc. If thats still not enough, ditch those 3.23's and throw some 3.73's or 4.10's in the car you'll definitely notice the difference then.


The LS option is great and they make tons of power, yes even the 4.8 & 5.3 despite what another post above may have alluded to.... 862/706 heads (factory stock 4.8/5.3 gen ii & iv LS engines) will easily hit high 290-300 cfm around .600" valve lift. They don't need crazy porting or anything just some gently massaging really. It was mentioned above about the L33 5.3, that's a Great (maybe the best gen iii & iv 5.3) however, everyone knows this (so they're a little harder to get your hands on). They were an aluminum block (like the "OG" LS1), had flat top pistons & came with 243 (02-04 ZO6 i.e. LS6 heads, no titanium intake & sodium filled exh valves like the LS6 had) heads. However, there was a precursor to the L33 that not many people know of or know to look for involved in the hobby and that was the LM4. The LM4 was built from 2003-2004, again put in the Silverados, Sierras, Yuknons & Tahoes. It was an aluminum gen iii block, 706/862 heads with a dished piston (as opposed to the L33's 4.8 style flat tops). An LM4 would be another great option but it incurs a lot of other "hidden" costs that any powertrain update will bring.


Anyways, just something to think about.