What needs to be done to switch from a hydraulic cam to a roller cam in a car that was not factory equiped with it? Also, how much do you think it might cost. What kind of horsepower can I expect from making the switch. Thank you!

Justin

 

you will get a HUGE gain in performace with a roller but you MUST swap out the springs and retiners, etc... as the roller cams have very agressive lifts figure with a cam (250$) lifters (200$) and heads setup for the roller cam (200$) its pretty $$$ but the power gains are VERY impressive.

 

I have World S/R Torquers with 2.02 1.6 valves and 180 cc intake runners and .550 springs....would those work?

 

what you MUST do is match the springs to the cam. the retainers sort of follow the springs, if you can reuse what you have if not buy new. you'd need lifters, bronze cam gear, cam button, i'd get anti rev kit. unless you have a full on race engine i'd stick with a flat cam and not bother with the trouble and expense of a roller, easily over 1000 dollars.

 

The price of admission to the roller cams is just too high.

 

Comp Cams Sells a Retro Fit - Flat tappet to Hydroulic Roller, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO CONVERT AN ENGINE for:
$900.00

Its not **** Either, its comp cams, a cam of your choice, plus all the rest e.g. pushrods, springs, timing set, lifters etc...
From what I've heard its a good way to easilly add a minimum of 50K more miles to your valvetrain, rollers have alot less "SHOCK" as they glide smoothly over the cam lobes, also they lift alot FASTER which translates to more duration @ .050 and they can stay open longer before they close the valves. remarkable.

 

Well, I so let me get this straight all i really need are lifters and cam? And of course timing chain. I was under the impression that i would have to machine something on my heads or something like that. What is a cam button and what does it do? Anymore imput would be appreciated.

Justin

 

right about $259 I think.

It can be done for about 300bucks over the cost of a flat-tappet cam. If you figure a flat cam and set of lifters is $115-125.

Well.. to some an extra 25hp is not worth much..but...

 

Did you read my post? when you go Roller you need to change the springs, the pushrod lengths, likelly the timing chain, and of course lifters and cam, not to mention yes you need a cam button thingy to hold it in place and keep it from "walking forward" which causes bad stuff to happen.
IT COSTS AROUND $900.00 OR MORE!!!!!!!

 

Wrong. GM did not change springs when they went with hydrollers. You can't exceed 120lbs seat pressure for hyd-lifters anyway reagardless of roller or not.


Where do you get 900bucks?

A timing chain is 19-40 bucks (which your going to have to buy anyway and the roller cam has nothing to do with it)
Pushrods are from 40 to 70 bucks (same as a chain-don't reuse PRs, especially stock ones)
Cam is about $225 and lifters are about $250
If you add it all up your talking about ~$550 versus ~$150 for a flat tappet.


If you spent 900 bucks you got screwed.

 

Figure if you go roller you can access higher RPMS and float valves Easier. Moral of the story: Spring change is necessary.
Figure if you want quality pushrods your going to spend $250.00-$300.00 for hardened ones. you will *NEED* them if you use high pressure springs, for high rpms, because its a roller, what would be the point of changing it otherwise? Cams are between 2-$300, Good set of lifters are between $250-$350... Sure you can buy the cheap ones but I never will again, Once that little pin holding the roller on comes off, good bye camshaft. Its happened to me once before, with the cheap lifters.

The ramps on roller cams are so steep even not exceeding spring pressures it will still wear on your springs. You can compare a real roller cam to the crap GM puts in our cars, the lift is laughable.
buy the cheap **** you get what you pay for. Call comp cams tell them you want to retro fit a roller the *right* way it will cost you about... Say... $900.00

 

I payed 110 bucks for a set of TFS 4130 chromolly pushrods from summit. They come in any length in .050" increments.

Even custom made pushrods are about 10bucks each. (10x16=160bucks)

Again, hydrollers are not designed for higher rpm. They are designed for fast opening. There will not be any hydroller that will allow more than 6500 rpm (regardless of spring) bc insufficent spring seat pressure. (see below)Period. can't be done anyotherway.

The AFR hydrev-kill will allow 7000+ rpm. http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/hydra_rev.htm

Hydlifter valve float cannot be stopped by larger springs. It takes seat pressure. INcase you are not aware of the true problem, its that the valves bounce when they are being returned to the seat. And you can't stop that unless you go with more seat pressure. You will only cause more problems with the lifter being compressed.

There are only two compainies that make retrofit rollers. Comp and federal mogul. Comps were 299 bucks until late last year. They are now 350 I think. The FMs are still 259 competition products. What were these cheap ones you purchased? I am sure everyone would like to know which ones to avoid (if there is such).

But,, i guess there is no convincing you.. You have seen every possible combination and no there are no other options

 

 

Hello???? Why bother changing the cam if you are not going to change the springs, 9 times out of 10 people change the cam and if they would just replace the prings that have gone bad in thier 10+ year old car it would bring it right back to live.

Think nascar, in the trucks we check the springs after qualifing and change them after each race. You really need to if you run high rpm and heat them and cool them fast. How many times do you think this heat and cool process has been done to your car?

That's all for now......

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=13450

(does it look like 350?)

How about this 250 dollar set of pushrods?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=19918

yeah.. must be bs you are the expert
:hail:


I am not saying springs should not be replaced. They do not require specific roller springs. They can use any hydraulic spring effectively.

One other thing (and I am finshed with this tread), most hydroller cams are made of a specific material that does not require bronze dist gears. Many solid rollers also have a cast iron dist gear pressed on the back eliminating the need for bonze.


goodbye

I don't know why i am trying to swim upstream. No yall don't want to have .600" lift with 236degrees duration in 050. It don't make your motor run worth a flip. ...... why would you want to open the valves fast anyway.. what does that get you.

 

Thank you jcb, as usual this topic made all the BS crawl out of the woodwork, and you have the facts. I would offer one addition though... Crane also makes "retrofit" ones, as does Lunati. I'm running Cranes in the 83 L69 block I drove to work today.

You have to change the cam and lifters (duh), add a cam button, and run 7.300" push rods (at least that's the stock length, I happen to have 7.400" ones in my car). A higher-quality timing set is a good idea. Rockers and springs are the same as for flat-tappet cams of similar lift and "intensity", i.e. dimensionally the same. There are no special "roller springs" and roller rockers are not required, but are certainly a good idea, aven more so than with a flat-tappet cam.

A roller cam is about $250-275, lifters are $300ish, push rods are around $100 in custom lengths or around $35 in stock lengths, and a cam button is $15.

Stock dist gear is fine on virtually all hydraulic rollers, as jcb said, because their dist gear is made out of the same material as a flat-tappet cam. You only need the bronze dist gear when you use a billet steel roller cam blank.

I am not an expert myself, only a hobbyist who has been (successfully) building roller motors since before most of the people on this BBS were born.

 

Just because the guy gives you a kit that does not include springs means he knows what he is doing. Man I wish I could afford to believe that.....

Valve springs are one of the most critical and most over-looked components in your engine. They must be matched to your cam in order for the engine to reach its full potential. It does absolutely no good to install a cam that will RPM to 8000, if you do not have the correct springs. The use of the wrong valve springs is one of the most common causes of engine failure. Another is the incorrect installation of the valve springs.

Now go read on compcams.com and find out if I am right.
If I am tell me and I will admit I am wrong.

That all for now....

 

Just go with a regular solid lifter camshaft!