techniqu3

which would win in a race between a stock 88 mustang(5.0L) and a stock 83 z28(5.0L)

ede

only way to know is to race, too many variables to predict the outcome. PK beat a 5.0 fox body with the iron duke camaro.

demonchild

Hey no 4 letter f words in the forum. J/k. Fords usually have a pretty decient chance of winning because stock the weigh a lot less the a f body car.

Mark A Shields

This belongs on the str race board doesn't it.

Oh, and the Stang would rape the Camaro, all things being equal, hell even a bad driver in the Stang would kill the Camaro.

Mark A Shields

Umm, ok. They don't weigh that much less, especially the GTs with gfx, now the coupe cars would.

It's not the weight, it's the fact that the 302 was far superior to most stock 3rd gen engines.

E-Z Rollin

The only thing "superior" about the ford 302 is its bore/stroke compared to a 305 sbc. The bigger bore shorter stroke gives it an advantage at higher rpm [with right heads], It is in no way superior to a 350sbc and should be compared to a 302 sbc . Remember the 302 ford start as a base econo engine, the 302 sbc started as a high perf. engine with all the right parts. The 302 fords success was due in large part to the mustangs light weight.

88IROC350TPI

I agree with Mark on this one. 88 GT would RAPE a 83 camaro stock for stock. 302's are one of the best motors ever made.

E-Z Rollin

Read above!!!!

techniqu3

haha shoot! guess i got sum work to do on my z28 then huh. reason i asked this question is cuz i was challenged by one of my friends and he says he has an 88 stang..now the 2nd challenge i got was from my other friend who wants to test me with his 90 honda accord...say he'll kick my *** with his accord..i almost pissed myself laughing.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

5.0 was a badass motor. I give the stang thumbs up on this one.

curt86iroc

stang. no way the 83 would keep up...

5.0mustang

The 5.0 was a good motor, but you are right the 305 isn't a good comparison, even the 305 TPI with a stick fell short of the 5.0 with a stick. The 350 vs 302 was a great match-up and the outcame was basically a drivers race!

In this case the 5.0 should win unless he does what I did at the track, and run a 2.6 60' (wow these DRs SUCK) and miss second (I had been driving stick for 1 week), then it would be a race. I went 16.06 at 93!!!

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

I agree the stang will win but, I disagree that a stock 88 stang vs a stock 305 tpi 5 speed bit because I have seen several races where the 305 tpi 5 speed wins this is a true all stock race I am talking about and it only makes sense because 9 out of 10 tpi 305 5speeds got the 3.42 gears and the stang has the 308 or what ever they are ratio.

Opha

from what i've been told the 302 engine is a 350 w/ a shorter stroke. i think it's a 3'' stroke w/ a 4'' bore. as a 305 is a 3.48'' storke w/ a 3.75'' bore. i think? the shorter stroke helps w/ the faster rev and thus faster acceleration. esp in the higher rpms. the bigger bore helps out alot too. only difference (short block wise) from a 305 and 350 is the bore...same crank used. and ford lied, it's not a 5.0L engine, it's actually 4.9L... but 5.0L sounds better, more marketable i guess. and im sure it's got a better set up as to see, ford's only perfromance car is the mustang. as gm's main performance car is the corvette... the f body was second shelf. if we got the vette engine, we would own the mustang no contest. although if gm doesnt like having anything faster then vette, why was the GN made??? i think stock it would beat a vette, or give it a good run for it's money.
Opha

Inwo

How exactly do you miss second?

CamaroFreak406

You think that a 5.0 Mustang and a 5.7 TPI car is a drivers race??? The 5.7 is a Mustang killer the little stangs can't hang with a 350 TPI. I actaully would think that a 305 TPI HO car w/ 3.42 would beat a Mustang. But no way can the 302 fords hang with our 350 chev's, Sorry.
Later, Garrett

Mark A Shields

Oh, please. it's a driver's race all the way. Let's see both cars can hit a mid 14, making it a driver's race....

88IROC350TPI

You just said exactly what Mark said and I agreed on. A 302 *is* superior to a 305 ...but not a 350.

Lets say we take a 302 and a 305 both from the same year and place them in cars that are identical in weight and suspension. Now lets do all the usually bolt-ons to the car/motor: exhaust, gears, intake, etc. Now lets do heads and a cam. Which motor is going to be faster? I'd bet my paycheck on the 302.

The 302 is successful because it is designed well (some years even had forged pistons stock). A Mustang GT only weighs slightly less than a Camaro

Mark A Shields

That's what I thought my point was.

Nic

LMAO! Someone doesn't know much about the competition.

Mark A Shields

exactly.

elevario

There's a good 200 pound difference between the GT and the IROC. And about 300 between the GT and the T/A. The best way to go with the fox body was the notchback. It weighed in at 3000 pounds and that's a good 400 pounds off an iroc. Just a little 411!

5.0mustang

(You think that a 5.0 Mustang and a 5.7 TPI car is a drivers race??? The 5.7 is a Mustang killer the little stangs can't hang with a 350 TPI. I actaully would think that a 305 TPI HO car w/ 3.42 would beat a Mustang. But no way can the 302 fords hang with our 350 chev's, Sorry.)

HAHA, a while ago I posted a race at the track where a stock (cat-back) L98 went 14.8. Remember this is at the track I race at and not sea level, or perfect prep, so 14.7-15.0 I would think is average. My dads LX when it was bone stock went 14.7, and now goes 13.3 and he has not touched the engine. It is a BONE STOCK 5.0 motor!!! I have never seen or heard of a stock L98 in a Camaro go 13.3 or even close! The only 305 I have seen do that was a Procharged TPI!!!

There have been many Mustangs going 14.2-14.5 BONE STOCK, so read up before you make those stupid and unthought out claims!!!

Now tell me to go back to my Rustang site, because I post proven facts from the track!

elevario

What's your definition of stock? Do you mean no cam or head work? Because I have a hard time believing a 13.3 on a stock mustang. See, my definition of stock is as it was right off the showroom floor. No exhaust, filters, airlids, pullies, NOTHING. That's stock because that is what the car came with from the factory STOCK. And I do agree with you, I have never seen an L98 run a 13.3 stock or modded for that matter. Usually, they're in the 14's or 12's and under here in Tucson.

Matt86t/a

stock for stock would still be a little unfair because some Mustangs got headers from the factory and froged pistons. That's not fair, but it was stock...

~Matt

CamaroFreak406

OK before everyone and there brother jumps on the Garrett's an idiot band wagon, listen. I based that comment on previous performance. I have run several races with 5.0 Mustangs and yes some where close but I never a loss. I don't think I'm a better driver than all the Mustang guys (I'm not) my 5.7 TPI cars have always been faster than any 5.0 Mustang around here.
So before another 100 people go and throw the flag at me give me a chance to tell you why I said that. I was going to continue on the first post with evidence but had to run off to class so I cut it short.
I have even beat 4.6 which are supposed to be faster with my 5.7 TPI (But those guys I know can't drive).
Can I bring myself out of the gutter by saying what i really meant was "2002 5.7 Liter F-body's vs. 2002 Mustang GT's" those are Mustang Killers, Now that's what I really meant .

My bad I shouldn't have posted with limited experience in Mustang vs Camaro races.
Sorry, Garrett

CamaroFreak406

eleviro what with the attitude, I'm not going to tell you to go back to your Mustang site and I'm the one that's getting ripped on. So you guys don't see things my way, I don't hate you for it.
Later, Garrett

elevario

Attitude? Is this really directed at me or 5.0mustang? I don't have attitude! I am a really jolly guy I guess you could say! All I did was post some facts about mustangs and asked 5.0mustang what his definition of stock was. None of it was directed towards you. I understand you about the 5.0's though. These guys on this site say that 5.0's should run in the 13's with minimal amounts of mods but my friends can't get in the 13's with more than mild mods! But I believe these guys, they seem VERY knowledgeable.

elevario

I'm not flaming you at all so don't get mad. But, this doesn't hold for anything. This is the reason LS1 guys are crying about losing to the 03 cobra. "It's not fair! They have a supercharger! If you put one on an LS1 it will be faster!!" Which it would but then your LS1 wouldn't be stock anymore and his would. Then the mustang guys say "Well if we had 1.0 more liters of engine we would waste you!" Which might be true but do you see what I'm getting at? It's always something, just run what you brung and all is fair in racing cars!

Mark A Shields

I thought the early 4.6s were worse than the 5.0 as far as stock times go at least?

Nic

They are Mark. The 99+ GT's are a different story though.

Notice he said bone stock motor, not bone stock car. There's a ton of guys running around with 12 second 5.0's with bone stock motors intake to oil pan. Heck, my heavy *** AOD convertible ran 14.23 with a bone stock motor from the paper air filter all the way to the oil pan.

For those of you interested in how this is done, check out Bob Cosby's site...he has a pretty simple recipe for how to run 12's on a bone stock motor'd 5.0 and actually ran as quick as 12.52 @ 106.9 on a bone stock motor.

http://members.***.net/bobcosby/stang/12sec.html

http://members.***.net/bobcosby/stang/chrono.html

eatmydust

Well that all in all just sucks. I've spent $6000 on my IROC and the person that just bought my best bud's old 91 GT could kick the **** outta me (both our cars are stock) and he probably didn't pay much for that car. Man, i'm losing faith more and more by the day. I've been in 2 races, one my friends 85 Camaro SC w/ 305 HO and I beat him by 3 cars. Then I raced my friends 95 GT and he beat me by 2 cars. All were stock. Man I just don't get it.....

5.0mustang

Yes a stock MOTOR, he has headers, H-pipe, pulleys, filter, gears and tires, but other than that it is off the showroom floor stock, and in mint condition! In BONE STOCK trim (paper filter no timing advance and air silencer) it went 14.7x at 94 I believe (long time ago)! And the 5.0 in mine and many others eyes is one of the best small block motors out there. Pretty much any windsor ford is a great motor!!!

The funny part is my car is doing 13.9 with all factory equipment. Sure it has an intake Tbody, and roller rockers, but so did the factory stock 93 Cobra!!! J/K this is how most Mustang guys act, in my eyes my car is far from stock, but my dads is a 100% stock 5.0 from 1991, and it went 13.31 at 101.11.

elevario

to you guys! Man that's crazy! Makes me want a fox body even more! Just can't find any around here for a decent price. Everyone wants like 7000 dollars for a 120K+ notch. See what I want is a notchback then I will put on gt ground effects. Do you guys think this would weigh about the same as a regular lx hatch? I just really like those ground effects on them. The only way I would not get them is if it was a black notch. I saw one the other day at the mall and it had some massive rear wheels and skinnies up front! Looked mean as hell!!

rx7speed

how is that not fair

when it comes down to racing saying this isn't fair or that it is just and excuse

what it all comes down to is running what you have

not complaining about fair or not

rx7speed

damn it you already beat me to it

oh well guess I shoudl read ahead before I post

curt86iroc

100% agreed with

however, i do find it more impressive when i see a car running 11's N/A than one running 11's with a blower...just my 2 cents

elevario

N/A is king! Agreed.

Matt86t/a

i just meant by my post that stangs will have an even better chance stock for stock because some came with headers out of the factory. I understand the whole "run what you brung" thing. I abide by it. I don't make up excuses for losing. I was just saying that mustangs also had the factory headers advantage and the weight advantage. Sorrrry

~Matt

Nic

Very rarely do you come across a deal. When you do, snap it up before the next guy does. My girlfriend is buying a bone stock '88 GT tomorrow...89k miles and in excellent condition

(new toy for me to play with!) :lala: :lala: :lala:

lol...I'd hardly call those restrictive pieces of crap 'factory headers'. Take a good look at them oneday when you get a chance. Those things pinch the exhaust off big time and would be one of the first things I'd swap out.

5.0mustang

Nic, I know exactly what you mean, I had headers before I had gears!!! Those things SUCK. The funny part was my dad had stock headers, and H-pipe (the most restrictive parts) and went 13.67!!! The manifolds that GM has aren't much worse if at all, and forged pistons aren't a factor until you add forced induction!

I have heard recently that a lot of 350s run 15s at other tracks (from numerous people). Knowing that, I keep my statement that a 5.0 vs an L98 would basically be a drivers race!

Inwo

I think we can all agree that NO thirdgen has a chance vs a 1975-1978 Mustang, can we just leave it at that? There were only 2 years that the Mustang beat the Camaro in 1/4 mile time STOCK during the 80s and never during the 90s. Why argue that point?
I know the figures are up on the internet somewhere but hell if I can find them now. Oh well.

Mark A Shields

I thought it was the other way around.

Matt86t/a

it definately was Mark

~Matt

88IROC350TPI

This is so stupid. Can we all just agree that

an early 80's 305: probably carbed and built for emissions is going to get BEAT by a 1988 302: probably fuel injected and built for performance.

Its simple as that..... forget about all the other crap. Question answered.

Mark A Shields

You're forgettin the fact that a 1998 TPI 305 vs a 1988 302 5 spd, the Stang would still win. Simple as that.

Mustang5L5

As long as they both keep beating up on the ricers who deserve it...who cares!

Mark A Shields

amen

FyreLance

I like cheese.

Mark A Shields

lol