I'll look into that. $3K for 750hp is awesome.
That is the power I am looking for, that will be more than enough for me to hit my goal.

 

Thanks.

The 89 Turbo Trans Am came with a Turbo GN motor in it.
The second Gen Trans Am had a 301 Turbo motor in them as well (but they were dog slow I hear).

 

yah thats because, again, parts were horribly mismatched. Chevy seemed to have made ALOT of mistakes with poorly matched parts. My car for instance. They oculdn't have chose a worse combination for cam, head, and intake manifold. Exhaust is poor too, but the others make it worse. Specially the heads. Chevy swirlport heads my bum!!!

hehe Turbo TAs can be made fast too though cheeply I'm sure, but it wold probably be worth it to toss that turbo as it is too small for any significant yields, and I do belive the only reason they did that was because of the fuel crunch of the time, so it went....make the engine crappy, and make up for that crapiness with a turbo to get it decent.

hmmm sounds like ricers

heh

 

Right....so you're saying having twice as many cylinders and displacement as the NA 4 is an equal playing field?

 

Are you retarded? What fuel crunch was there in 1989? They put the turbo in there because it hauled *** and absolutely destroyed any V-8 offering offered at the time...even the allmighty vette...and the buick V-6 is by no means a crappy engine. It's definitely a better engine than the POS 305 that is in my Camaro and most other 3rd gen F-bodies. In fact the turbo trans am was THE fastest 3rd gen to ever come out of the factory...and it did it without a V-8. Ironic, isn't it? Wow, those buick 6's must be REAL crappy engines.

And do you have any clue what the hell a RlCER is? Do you think it's just anything foreign? If so you're completely ignorant and I hope you enjoy getting destroyed by "ricers" non-stop. A RlCER is a slow *** car with wings, body kits, all that crap, domestic OR foreign. There are a TON of fast imports out there that are in no way rlce.

 

thanks for being such an *** and calling me retarded. they made turbo TAs earlier then 89 As well. 80 and 81 retard when the oil crunch still had its toll. quit being a jerk. Geeze just stating what is known. Look around before flaming people and have the respect not to be calling people retarded.

have a good day.

 

I wasn't calling you retarded I was just asking.

Does it really seem that far fetched to think that you'd be calling the 89 TTA a piece of crap? It seems like if it doesn't have a V8 you don't want to know anything about it...

 

I will give you the fact abour ricers, being sometihn without power and jst has body kits wings stickers etc. I'll give you that. and your right there are powerful imports out there. Supra is the only one I would consider powerful... that and the skyline. Other then that, no go but even still only reason being the turbo. S2000 has some *****, but im sorry, having a four cylidner that uses as much fuel as a corvette Z06....no...that doesn't cut it.

and you did call me retarded. I don't stand for that. I will not respond to anything to say to me anymore for the lack of respect a human deserves.

 

Oh, first off,, the S2000 is a HORRIBLE example of a four cylinder with *****. Those things are pretty much pushed to their max from the factory...they aren't really that fast and they make all their power above 50,000rpm. There are SO many more imports out there that'll give you a run for your money....mostly turbocharged, but does that mean that it's because they'd rather just throw a turbo on a "crappy four cylinder" than use a high tech V-8 like the 305? I don't think so. There are a ton of advantages to having a turbocharged car. Weight is a huge one, another is the ability to adjust power instantaneously, even from inside the cockpit. Yeah, it uses as much fuel as a Z06 UNDER FULL BOOST, but you can turn the boost down to nearly nothing just driving around town and get twenty-something mpg in the city, then crank the boost up to 20PSI when you pull up to someone at a stoplight who wants to run.

 

agree to disagree. I'm done

 

Whoops, double post.

 

lol noticed. just checked out your site. Nice ROC. You could do alot to that and after reading your site, you know what your talkin about.

Ok I will agree to disagree with you. I still don't appreciate the retarded comment, but I'll get by it. I am an advocate for simple, naturally aspirated, high torque engines. I see from your site that you thouroughly enjoy the camaro as well and even go as far as to say import destroyer hehe good luck with it you gots the know how.


DOH just saw the page where its wrecked sorry to hear that.....wait im confused...was that your roc that got damaged or one you bought for parts??

 

high 12s costs the average DSM guy I know about $4000, upgraded turbo, intercooler, exhaust, and lots of computer ****.

 

I have no problem with people PREFERRING one setup to another. If you prefer a V8 over anything else, that's cool. I myself like to mess around with different drivetrain setups to get more variety. I just get REAL annoyed when people knock something they seem to have NO idea about. Just saying "I like V8's, everything else is ****" without really knowing anything about ANYTHING but a pushrod V8 seems pretty ignorant to me.

Anyway, about my site, it's pretty old, I haven't updated that in probably about a couple years. I didn't wreck my IROC, that blue one on the site was one I used for the TPI setup (getting rid of my LG4). I bought the car for $650, took out all the TPI stuff and the heads, some interior stuff, then sold it for $550 just to get it off my lawn. I'm using that TPI setup and hopefully swapping a ZZ4 into my IROC this summer. The 305 is a POS, I've put way too much into my car to have it running mid 15's or so. It's annoying as hell to have a car that sounds and looks fast but get's smoked by most average cars. Like I said, my Eclipse will be running mid 13's when I get my turbo in by the end of the week, and I've only put about a $1000 into that.

 

yah but I think you found cheaper parts or something cause around here those parts are not that cheap. Did you get them used or new?

 

Nope WAY off. Yeah you COULD spend $4000 if you have no idea what you're doing. Just like you could spend $4000 on a thirdgen and not break out of the 14's.

Like I said:
Upgraded turbo and install kit:$340 (only needed on 2g's)
Supra Sidemount Intercooler:$170
3" turbo back exhaust: $400
Lot's of computer crap? Try $270 for an Apex-i SAFC piggyback fuel computer.

Then the other stuff I mentioned before...not anywhere CLOSE to $4000....

 

what turbo though? the one outta the 1st gens? is it really that much better?

 

All of those are new except the turbo. The 14B you can find all over the place from $100-$200 used. I know on www.dsmtrader.com there are a few posted for sale EVERY day.

As far as getting the other stuff for cheap, it's just about not wasting your money on big name bling bling parts. I bought a brand new Dave Brode upper intercooler pipe for $75 shipped....works just as well as a chrome greddy upper intercooler pipe for $200. Brand new 1G blow off valve for $40, works just as well as a HKS blow off valve for $280. $200 for port work? A die grinder and some carbide burrs and my O2 housing/Exhaust manifold/Turbo is the smoothest I've seen. $100 for a manual boost controller? A trip to home depot and you can make your own for $12.

Like I said, it's easy to blow $4000 and go nowhere fast....if you're smart with your money you can get there a lot cheaper. Most DSM guys I know actually take the latter route. You'll find FAQ's all over the web about how to do everything yourself and save as much as possible..which parts are the best for the money, etc.

 

Yeah, 1st gens have a 14B turbo, second gens have a T25. The 14B is MUCH better. Look at the times (http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showth...threadid=46394), the fastest anyone has posted with a T25 is a 13.270, and then everyone else is mid 13's and slower. With a 14B the fastest is a 12.022, and there are a bunch of guys running 12's.

 

ok so that would be a used turbo. That would be why things are cheaper. If it works why not eh?

I'll have to relay that to people that need to know..

cheers.

how much better flow is it though and if thats the case, can't the 1G be much better stock?

 

1. there is absolutely no replacement for displacement.this means turbos,sc,nitrous,ram air can not be a "replacement for desplacement".u run into limitations with power adders.in short big motor = big power and big boost =ping ping ping boom.
2. torque is king.....true.horsepower is horsepower whether if its coming out of lawn mower engine or a big cummins diesel in a semi truck.a 285 hp nissan z motor is stronger than your 240hp 350 tpi motor(pretty straight forward).if u had two motor that both made 400hp ; motor A used rpms to make 400 hp(small displacement) Motor B used torque(big displacement).one of the problems with rpm is that the valvetrain most be strong enough to not break and/or float a valveproblem with displacement is....well is kinda hard to shoehorn a BBC into a honda civic LOL.
so in short when people say torque is king there really saying use torque instead of rpm.

dave

 

Yeah, it's used. The thing is you can get them mint for $150-$170. You blow one, who cares? Another $150 and a couple hours later, you're back in buisness.

The 1G definitely has more potential stock because it has that bigger turbo, that's what I mentioned before. They're about the same stock though because at stock boost pressure, the T25 is a better turbo. It has a smaller wheel so it spins up faster. This combined with the 2g's higher compression makes it feel more like a NA car. Once you start doing intake, exhaust, and up the boost though, you've done more than the T25 can handle and the 14B becomes the better turbo.

 

but how much better. i mean how much HP can you pump out of it? Cause i wouldn't think it would be all that much more. That is why i think people spend the 4K on different setups.

 

I don't know the EXACT #, but people are running low 12's, NEARLY 11's with them...so yes, fast.

People spend 4K on different setups because they either have money to burn, or plan on going faster than 12's. I'd say the 14B is a good mid to high 12 second turbo. If you want 11's or 10's, then you're better off going with something bigger....and that's where it get's expensive, usually about a grand just for the turbo. Then you're flowing a lot more air and need to support it with more fuel - bigger injectors, better fuel pump, fuel management. Like I said before, it costs peanuts to get a DSM into the 12's.....11's is expensive.

 

I see. So a boost controller on my other friends stock 1G talon could really push out some horses then eh? interestng

 

another INSANE claim by my no longer friend with the eclipse. he now claims that with his mostly stock (again, aside from BOV and exhaust) that he beat a fully built fourth gen SS.................anyone else here wanna say idiot?

 

Well, with me...I would like to own a turbo vehicle sometime in the future. (also a diesel and a Turbodiesel)

The thing that bothers me is that some people just down realize the value of torque. I'm not accusing anyone. But here's an example:
Starring a relative's car a Chevy Caprice 305. A 17-18 second car, right? At a traffic light. Beside him is a late '90s Japanese 4 cylinder car, NOT one of the slower ones. Could have been a Honda of some sort. Light changes to green, Caprice takes off normally. Honda has the pedal much farther down and is winding out gears--- ALL to make up for lack of low-end torque. Sad. Technology seems to be lying to itself.

 

I've got a buddy with a T28 hybrid turbo ($600), supra sidemount ($200), turboback exhaust ($750), and an SAFC ($380), his best was a 13.3, it's a 1G GSX boosting 12 psi. 12s will not happen with that setup, he pulled 13.3 with Drag Radials and is a damned good driver. You'd need other upgrades.

 

Idiot.

 

By the way...that "Idiot" thing wasn't directed at you.

It wouldn't have looked like it if you didn't type so damn fast...

 

12PSI!?!?!?!?:sillylol:

Maybe your friend knows how to drive but he sure as hell doesn't know how to tune.

First off, why would he use a T28 hybrid turbo when it's not a direct bolt on for the 1g? That's a turbo the 2g guy use to avoid the hassle/cost of an install kit with a 16G.

Secondly, 12PSI?!?! A T28 can EASILY run 18PSI. He may as well just be running the 14B if he's only running 12PSI, that's more within it's efficiency range. The only reason you'd run lower than that is if you don't have the supporting fuel mods, like a fuel pump and bigger injectors. I'm hoping that's the reason your friend is only running 12PSI. 12PSI on that turbo is nothing...he could be making way more power.

Third thing...DRAG radials?!?! Your friend needs to get his priorities straight. If he has a GSX, he's got AWD, he does NOT need drag radials in the 13's. 1.6 60's aren't a problem for an AWD DSM on street tires. If he'd spend that money on supporting mods for the turbo he'd be deep into the 12's.

I beginning to wonder if either your friend doesn't know what he's doing, or you're just giving unknowingly wrong information on his setup.


And yes, with the setup I discussed before and the stuff above, 12's are definitely possible...but definitely NOT at 12PSI...I'd be running more around 16 PSI.

 

This was taken from chitownracing.com...I've seen and heard many other cases of similar experiences...my buddy had a 1g that was running 11s, and now he has another one and he keeps telling me with a skilled driver and the car being tuned right you can pull 12.4s with only $1200:

Make your 1g run a 12.00 with minimal mods
This guy did it. He ran a 12.02 @ 112.38 MPH with the following mods.

K&N filter
Extreme XBC boost controller
Extreme 3" cat-back exhaust
Extreme '95 ported exhaust manifold
Extreme ported 14B turbine housing (stock 14B turbo!)
Extreme ported O2/Forced Performance dump mod
Extreme 2.5" stainless downpipe
Extreme 2.5" high flow cat/test pipe
Extreme upgraded fuel pump
ACT 2600 clutch
Lightweight underdrive crank pulley

Thats about 1500 bucks in mods using the stock turbo at around 21 psi. And people say imports are to expensive to get fast times.... hahahha

 

yah but most imports don't have turbo's installed in them from the factory. Especially these days. I don't see any stock honda's with turbos :-) Eclipse and Talon (im sure there are a few others) are the only ones I know of.

 

About the guy saying 4K couldn't get a thirdgen out of the 14's. Guarenteed it is extremely possible. My friends father did it. Being an engine assembler and taking your heads to get port and polished can get that job done! Maybe some suspension mods.

cheers.

 

As a great man once said... "Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races"

 

aye aye. Amen brother. Stated yet once again!

Case in point. Found a few different car specs and their 1/4 times.

900HP Toyota Supra: 1/4 time was 10.5
475HP LT1 corvette engined 65 Chevy Nova: 1/4 time was 10.2

Huge difference in HP there. and look. whats this? the lower HP'd car wins? hmmm thats interesting!!

 

Supras are weird like that. That reminds me of a joke I heard not too long ago....

What do a 500 hp supra, a 600 hp supra, and an 800 hp supra have in common?

They all run 12s!

I don't know why this is.
You do have to look at it like this also though...a 315 hp LS1 runs lets say mid 13s. A 300 hp CRX could be running easy 12s.

 

Theres more to getting good ET than just horsepower and torque. Weight and traction comes to mind...

I know a guy that swapped an H22 into a CRX and he's running low 13's. He's only making about 250hp but the freakin' car only weighs 2000lbs! Oh yeah, and thats all engine.

 

Yeah I have a friend with a crazy CRX. You have to respect anything that can destory you car in the 1/4, no matter what it is!

 

weight does have alot to do with it sure. Those CRX's I've seen going crazy amounts of speed though have prelude engines in em and have an INSANELY high compression ratio. Last one I read about had a 14.1 ratio. Needs racin fuel for that one! That car is light as hell too!!

 

supras with IRS and their 6-speeds can never hook for ****, they still make decent amounts of torque when built but man, they don't have a clue how to put it to the ground and I don't really think they can well. it's pathetic. I haven't lost to a supra yet, but all the ones I've raced are high to mid 12s all 450+HP. I've seen a solid axle'd th400 geared supra run a 10.08@135 MPH, that's some insanely fast **** there, lol, takes GM drivetrain to get that power to the ground! Even the fastest imports have some domestic in them

 

The good thing about supras is that the bottom end, trans, and rear can all handle an insane amount of power before they will blow, more then any other car that I know of.

 

I'm pretty sure that was me...if so you read my post completely wrong. Someone mentioned their friend spent 4K and was only running 13's or so in their DSM, and I was just making a point that if you misspend your money you could spend 4K and not get a 3rd gen out of the 14's....I WAS NOT saying it would TAKE 4K to get it out of the 14's if you are remotely smart with your money....

 

Ahh, double post. Stupid slow connection.

 

lol loving those double posts Oh ok I gotcha now. Yup I did read it wrong.

 

Someone said, "You have to respect any car that could blow you away on the 1/4 mile." What? Bull****. There are alot more variables than that involved. So what if a Honda blows through the 1/4 mile in 12 seconds and blows up. Respect hell. Respect is something that is earned over time. Fast-- does NOT immediately get respect from me. Here's a strange, but relevant metaphoric example:

Who should get more respect for being strong? Person A, who walks over and lifts 300 lbs without even blinking or person B, who strains, picks up the 300 lbs, but then gets a hernia and a bad back? Or...leave those injuries to person b out, and see that person A STILL deserves the respect.

Here's a good question: What characteristic of a vehicle earns the most respect from you?
1) Performance
2) Mileage
3) Looks
4) Durability and reliability?
5) Vehicle/Parts/Service price.

Over all else, it's number 4 for me

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against imports or newer cars (As a matter of fact, Japan and Germany have put out some of the strongest cars...a few years back.)...And I'm not against someone doing their own thing. I'm just explaining how I select mine.

 

Hmm I would agree with that. I have seen many a honda/mitsu go down the track WAY fast only to have things break quite often. I know all will break at times when running high high speeds, but I see your point. Reliability is a major factor. This is why that beutiful white thirdgen of mine is going to get a rebuild, and one done right so I can get 200K plus outta the sucker!!!

cheers!

 

Much like the stock 700R4 and the stock T5 that came in thirdgens DSMs were cursed with trannies made of glass. I can argue as well that I've seen loads of cars go down the track and self destruct, you just notice the imports more cause you don't likem.
On that note... I don't really see any street racing content here guys, bring it back on topic.

 

Oh, but I do like imports. And I haven't been to the track. I'm talking about the street, Inwo, old friend.
I call them as I see them. And common sense says that anything that over exerts itself will live a shorter life. Period. Well, unless it gets wrecked.

I want to see what an engine can do. By itself. That's why I'm putting a 252 in the Buick. It will never be a street rod, but it will be quick enough. Part of what keeps me racing this and that and building this and that is curiosity- adventure. And I like to test the integrity of the engine. "If you put nos on this and get its weight down to 2000 or below...it could be fast..." Well, to hell with that idea. How can you say you like a car when you change it totally? Body, engine, transmission, suspension, brakes...everything changed. Why not just get a different car in the first place.

And Inwo...give THEM another chance to bring the topic back, there's no way I can. Don't let me be one of the three strikes- that's what I mean.

 

This topic was originally about questioning the potential imports have to be fast. Nobody is talking about reliability, so you have no need to reply with something that had nothing to do with the conversation. I will respect any fast car, no matter what. Fast to me is 11s or quicker. Everyone's cars break when you make them fast, its just a part of drag racing. Its great if you can build a 9 second car and get off 50 passes with it without breaking something, but I doubt that will happen. All I care about is performance. Thats why I stated this point. Its quite alright that you don't respect a 12 second car, nobody is forcing you to, but if someone puts in the effort to get a civic down the track in 12 seconds, he has my appreciation, even though its not my choice of car.