1986 305ci LG4 auto Firebird vs. 1993 v6 auto Taurus

i went to race my friend, just for fun, so we didn't talk smack to each other. he claimed that his car was really slow, and just wanted to see how fast it was compared to mine. now, my car isn't anything special. its just a stock LG4, but i thought i would easily be able to take him. We did a quarter mile race, off the start, i easily took 2-3 lengths on him, at second gear, i was stilll easily ahead of him, but he was very slowly closing in, in third gear (around 55 mph, but i wasn't really watching my speedometer, i was watching the road). Then, he easily blows me in third gear, and then just beats me by about 3 lengths at the finish line. His car is completely unmodded!! Is there something wrong with my car? my car has 127k miles on it, but i still think i should be able to take out family tauruses. WHAT SHOULD I DO?

 

that sucks man, but with a few mods you will be ahead by a few car lenghths. good luck

 

they actualy get up and go for what they are i think they coem with 3.0 v 6 in them atleast thats wats my friends moms has in hers. we would alwase tool around close to 100MPH with out noticing in it very smooth ride.

 

ya man, dont feel bad, i raced one in my elcamino, and after i got a lead, i let of for like a milisecond and i was like WTF and the thing flew past me. they have really good top end for what they are, everyone underestimates them by a lot.

 

Sounds like your friend had a Taurus SHO, in 1993 they came with a 24 valve Yamaha V6 and they move pretty good. Have seen some unmodded ones at the track 14.9-15.8 range. Quite a sleeper.

 

I raced one in my Jeep a little while ago. Off the line I jumped 2 cars and then after 2nd it was like 3-4 and he never gained. We let off at around 80-85 and he was 4+ cars back. They are quick for what they are, but you shouldn't have been walked, I don't think the top end is that good.

 

Depends on what Taurus it was.

The stock tauruss weren't anything special. The SHO however, came with a yamaha engine that made the car decently quick.

 

The SHOs are awesome cars but I don't think he raced an SHO. An SHO would beat him off the line and have him by more cars than that.

 

My 2.8 would lose repeatedly to my friends taurus by 4 or 5 lengths to 85 mph. It was embarrassing to say the least. I also raced a SHO with the maro. It wasnt pretty. Hes tailgaiting me, the road opens up, I floor it, and all of a sudden I see this big green thing screaming by me and is just gone. Guy was laughing. Shame on him for picking on a 2.8. If only I had my trans am at the time, wed see who was laughing.

 

damn, another LG4 got beat... ok heres what to do:

first of all, if you cant mod just yet heres a few free things you can do to improve performance..
1) if you have an auto, shift it manually... the factory auto trans shifts at a VERY low 4000 rpms. i shift mine at 4500 and get almost a half second diference in the 1/4.
2) bump up the timing by a few points (3 - 6*) and put at least 89 octane gas in it.
3) remove your entire air cleaner assembly (so you have basically an open carb)... this should ONLY be done when youve got a setup race going or are at the track. DO NOT do this when your intent is to just cruise around. dirt and crap will get sucked into the carb, and thats not good. ive gained 2 tenths from doing this

if youve got some cash lying around, heres the first few mods you should do:
1) full exhaust... i recommend flowtech headers. theyre cheap ($90 a set) and good enough for a 305. get a custom ypipe made by an exhaust shop (the flowtech one is GARBAGE, do not waste your money on it). get a good flowing cat converter, like random tech. and finally top it off with a dynomax catback. itll only cost you about $160 from summit. full exhaust should get you about 25hp and 3 - 4 tenths.
2) gears... 3.23s or 3.42s work well... nothing bigger than that cause youll rev the LG4 out of its powerband too quickly. also a good set of street slicks (like DRs or M/T et streets), they will help your launch.
3) if you dont like the idea of running an open carb, get a K&N xtreme airflow assembly.

these mods should put you in the low 15s, if driven properly, with a basically stock LG4

 

Running an open carb is one of the dumbest things you could possibly do. Sure you might gain a tenth but going from 16.3 to 16.2 isn't worth losing an engine over. Get a $30 edelbrock open element if you don't feel like cutting up your stock air filter housing to make it dual snorkle as found in the tech article...
Flowtechs are crap headers but if they're truly all you can afford then go for it, I'd recommend instead getting a nice set of Hooker Headers because they come with the y-pipe and have NO fitment issues while the flowtechs should come with a sledge so you can TRY to make them fit. A test pipe or (if you have emissions) a top quality $50 3" weld on cat would do you just as good as an overpriced randomtech scam cat. ("Flows better than a straight pipe!!" yea right)
Being that a carb flows better than tpi 3.73s are nice. Put a respectable cam in that thing and you'll have power to 5500-6000 easy.
If you're really serious about getting some decent power out of your car then rip out all that computer garbage and put in a non-computer controlled carb and do all the necessary mods to make it work. That's not really an option if you have emissions.

 

can someone show me a website to purchase the $30 edelbrock open element and some headers. thanks. by the way it was NOT a SHO. I know he's going to rub it in. so, i need this. haha.

 

I just checked summitracing.com, I think the part I bought was EDL-1209. Call Summit before you'd order to ensure that it's the proper part number. Price is right, $16... Open elements are not as good as the dual snorkle conversion of course, as they are sucking in hot air from around the engine instead of from the front of the car but it'll do in a pinch.
The headers you'd want are the HOK-2055s which come with some sort of free gift right now from Summit. They're kind of pricey for $350 but they come with all the necessary emissions hookups and mine had an o2 bung welded in so it worked out perfectly and had no fitment issues and it was a pure bolt on. If you're cheap then you can get the Flowtech BIG-16102 for $210 but you'll be upset with yourself for buying crap and want to jump off a bridge trying to get those damn things installed. Make sure to pick up some stage 8 locking header bolts as they will not loosen and as anyone with headers will tell you loosening header bolts are bad. As far as a catback goes that's up to you. I'd recommend the Hooker catback but the Dynomax is fine, personal preference. If you're planning on doing the work yourself I'd recommend a shop manual from Helms Otherwise find a competant shop and try to get a good price as this kind of work does end up taking several hours for a skilled mechanic and several days for someone who doesn't know a monkey wrench from a monkey.
Before you take on the job make sure you can finish it, don't dive in head first or you'll end up a pedestrian.

 

showroom stock racers run open throttle bodies... thats right, no filter. and i only said to do it during track passes. i gained a solid 2 tenths by doing this to my LG4. dont call something dumb just because you dont agree with it
i put up a post about fitment issues of the flowtechs and not a single person said they were a PITA to install. no hammer necessary. i mentioned them because theyre a third the cost of any other header for 3rdgens.
just cause carbs can flow better than stock TPI stuff doesnt mean the engine will rev to 6000. remember that the LG4 is a truck engine, and that its cam/heads/intake package as a whole will not support 6000rpms. just changing the cam will not let this motor rev. you would need to do heads, valvetrain, and intake mods to support a bigger cam and 3.73 gears.

 

Oh, I'm sorry, it is VERY INTELLIGENT to leave your carbeurator open and risk losing your engine to gain almost 2 whole 10ths on a 305. Road debris+valves=expensive.

$200 vs $350 for emissions headers isn't 1/3rd the cost. Personal experience with installing flowtechs, they are junk and don't fit worth a damn.

A slightly larger cam can increase your power band without needing new valve springs or intake. Stock the engine can turn 5500 rpm before the power completely goes away although the stock crank is put under much stress spinning that quickly. Regardless, it still will make power past the 4500 rpm that tpi does even without a cam swap.

 

YES! MY CAR CAN BEAT SOMEONE! hehehehe wow... I have a 95 with the 3.0 v6 with some performance mods...... i have to say, that at high speeds.. the car really pics up. I love it as a winter beater.. the more times i see Taruas Vs Camaro races here, the more i want to keep it! i was gunna sell it for a subrau cause the weather up here in college is horrible, but i just might bang out the dent and keep it! hehehe sorry to hear about the loss...

 

on the street i fully agree with you. what you cant seem to grasp is that ON THE TRACK is where this mod should be performed. how many 10 sec cars do you see running open carbs? quite a bit. and 2 tenths can be the difference between winning and losing, so its worth it
last time i checked flowtech headers for 82-92 fbodies were 89.99
ok, where to begin here:
1) this guy has a 127k engine.. and you wouldnt replace the valvesprings if you did a cam swap?
2)just cause the engine can turn 5500rpms doesnt mean is going to make power all the way to that point. the heads and intake choke the engine way before that, so a cam swap alone will not make reving to that rpm useful.
3)TPI makes power to 4800 - 5000 rpms stock. this is where my Corvette shifts at and any lower or higher will hurt my E/T

 

Look up the stock number. He needs emission headers (AIR tubes) so that's summit part number BIG-16102.
You don't seem to grasp that he doesn't have a race car. He is RISKING HIS ENGINE running an open carb. If you're comfortable sending him out without an air cleaner to potentially ruin his engine that's great, it'll be on your head when he's back here saying "I PICKED UP SOME EXTRA RUBBER IN MY CARB AND SOMEHOW MY PISTONS MELTED FROM RUNNING LEAN!!!" I guess if you're comfortable with that then that's cool, but post that on another board I'm not going to allow terrible advice like that on this board.
He's not planning a cam swap anytime soon so the argument is moot. Everyone knows the LG4 heads don't flow for crap. Everyone knows tpi is very slightly ahead of tbi as a "performance" fuel injection system due to it not breathing well at all beyond 4500. You seem to forget that a vette is not an fbody and an L98 is not the camaro iron headed 350. You also don't seem to realize that the 85-87 LG4 is not the same engine as the 82-84 LG4. There are differences, and it is more similar to the 82-84 L69 than the 82-84 LG4. If you need it explained further do a search.

Either way this is terribly off topic and not street racing related. If you want to continue this discussion then take it to private message or something.

 

The Taurus AOD is just as bad or worse than the GM AOD. Mine especially. I need to replace it with a 3 speed Auto.
Slow shifts, too soon shifts, slow in between gears, releasing a roar before it shifts into the next gear. The older RWD AOD is better in my opinion.

As for the Taurus/Sable and even the Tempo/Topaz can apply for this as well. 1st somewhat sluggish, 2nd pulls HARD, 3rd not quite as hard- but very strong and it climbs, showing no signs of giving out.
A 92 Taurus can hit upwards of 120 mph. One of those has been radared by police on video.

 

Yea, tell me about bad trans. My mom had the car before me, and had to replace, not rebuild, replace the Trans 2 times... i think there is maybe 40k on this one, and ive had the car for 2 years now, and when i first got it, it started to shift like chit, it takes forever to get out of gear, but after i get her movin on the Parkway.. shes flies. and i did about 120-125 in mine... but the best part of my car.. is that after 45mph... the speedo starts to bounce around... so i really dont know how fast im going till i hit 85 and i peg it. i know i was doing 120+ cause i passed my friends truck that was doing 120

 

agreed! if your swapping cams in an LG4 and not installing some new valves and springs and looking for performance your a moron.... while swapping cams i'd do some porting, new valves, springs and swap out the intake manifold.... but before all that i'd first get the exhaust taken care of. but then again i'd probably just go out and buy a 350 short block

 

I'd replace the carb distributor intake exhaust cam valve train heads and crank if I were looking for performance from an LG4. Simply put it's a junk engine, but at least it has 9.5:1 compression... It doesn't matter, this is off topic for this board. Further discussions about the pointlessness of modding a 305 can be taken to the general tech board. Hypothetical racing situations can take place here. Get back on topic plzkthx.

 

Try a 92 Tarus with the 3.8. SICK! Not a show... but a wild sleeper. Easy 15 second car, if you can manage to not destory the tires, and if the tranny will take the abuse of WFO shifts more than a few times, which it won't. Check those things out though, torque monsters.

 

hey INWO, I know this is of topic, but it sucks to tell someone their engine sucks, and there are a lot of fast 305's. dont put people down just because of YOUR opinion . In my situation, i cant change from a 305 to a 350 even though i want to, so im going to make the best out of my 305, so its some competition to the group of 350 owners, until i change to a 350 in a few years when i get the money.

 

hey buddy just think of it this why when gm made the lg4s they did it retarded, half the stuff they put on it made it loose the power it should have. do a search there is alot of talk about the "slow lg4" and how u can get it to preform the why they were ment 2. all u need to do is wake that lg4 up with the stuff it should have already had and u will take him easy!! there is this guy on this board that has a lg4 and its one of the fastest cars here.

when gm made the lg4 i swear they where tryin to make them slow!!

to all the lg4s out there looseing this war, just remember your car is ment to be alot fast then it is!!!

 

Put a nice 3 speed Auto in a Taurus and it will be fine. The great thing is, the handling may hurt a little by the size of the car, but it helps out at high speeds. It's no Porsche, but it can handle quick maneuveres at high speed. Just don't ask it to do over 60 on a curvy backroad.
Great winter traction with good tires also. Weight again comes into play.
3300-3600 without a driver. Heavy considering the fact that the Cutlass will weigh about the latter WITH a driver.

 

What's wrong with QJets? Although I have a holley on there now I might think about swapping to an old non CCQjet

 

off topic, but act3434>>>what color blue do u have on your camaro??

 

Show me 3 running 12's N/A in full trim then I will agree

 

i raced a contour before... slapped him completely of a roll from 40 to top end around 95...
not sure if its anything like a taurus...
i know i use to lose to some chrystler back with my 2.8... it was supercharged family car...
i lost to a buick once... i know i had a bad start... but i still lost...
some old buick... not a skylark... errr... something else... can't remember...
so this kinda thing happens

 

sorry about the loss, sounded like a pretty close race in the middle..