I am a die-hard domestic muscle car guy, but I also know quite a bit about imports. If anyone has questions to what's normal/not normal, stock characteristics, or any other questions relatiting to imports, i might be able to help.

 

k i got one what does a hond civic hatch with a GSR engine and intake and exhaust run normaly?

 

well you wont see a whole lot of GSR hatches on the street simply because the gsr's are so much more money than the more common B16. Depending on the year of the hatch (for weights sake) A B18C1 is only 170 hp. With the mods u mentioned, lucky to see 175. To the main question. A healthy running GSR in a hatch should go mid to high 13's

 

Are you sure about that , My friend has a newer civic hatch with a gsr motor intake and exhaust and I think a chip.He ran a 14.9 and he knows how to drive. 170 horses in that size car isnt going to break into the 13's. Nothing short of a turbo or nitrous is gonna break a hatch into the 13's.

 

Provided the information given looks accurate I'll keep this around and prune the (inevitable) flames/sarcastic questions.
It might be nice to have an info message around for quick reference. I always do my best to know as much about the competition myself, knowledge is power and all that.

 

I think his prior statement should be qualified, the newer civics are actually kinda heavy for what they are, while the late 80s-early 90s (not exactly sure on the model years) are very light and little horsepower can give good times.
Care to give us a history of the B16 and GSR motors 84maroman? (what cars they were out of and what the big deal about them are)

 

what does 98 tt supra with a t-5 run? (or did they come with a 6 speed)? what about a 94 tt rx-7 with a 5 speed run? are either capable of beating an ls-1 assuming all other variables are equal (good driver, traction, etc.)? alright so maybe thats 4 questions.

 

first, the gsr, b16 thing. Well one of my good cruising buddies has a 89 CRX with a stock B16, intake and exhaust, and he ran 14.2. I also said, a healthy running GSR. Also, my other cruising buddy has a 2001 GSR with a built bottom end, other bolt on's, 75 shot and he runs high 12's. Most hatch/CRX swaps are going to be B16 because of the price. The same reason we use 350's and not something like a 302 or 400. B16A3's (american) are 160hp and came in 93-97 del sol's. B16A1's (japan) are pretty much the same thing, just from japan. GSR's (B18C1) came in 94-97 GSR's. The hype about them, is rareity. A GSR is only 10 hp over B16. You also have the H22's but I wont get into that for now. I think I answered the B16/GSR thing for now. Later I can get into the more powerful H22's.

 

Well eric, by saying T-5 I had to think if you meant turbo, or confused it with a tranny. Supra's are either auto or 5 spd for non-turbo's and auto or 6 spd for turbo. I've yet to see a "stock" supra, as they are so cheap and easy to make fast. But a mid-low 13 sec pass "stock" isn't that rare, depending on if they can hook it. A 13B (TT rotary code) RX7's are good for low 14's. MAYBE a high 13 on a good day. Now, can a TT supra, or a TT RX7 beat a LS1? Assuming all are fresh off a lot, it would depend on if they were going from a stop, 20 roll, 50 roll, etc. The RX7 would most likely lose in any case to both LS1 and supra. From a stop, i think the LS1 would pull enough ground before the supra got in it's powerband, that the LS1 would win. From a roll is a different story. Supra's are evil when their turbo's are in boost. Look at me ramble on like a little school girl...lol. All in All, stock vs stock, the LS1 can hold it's own. But like I said about the stock thing...supra's are rarely stock. Hope I answered the questions.

 

like inwo said...knowledge is power. I used to only care for domestics, but I realized, the more you know, the more you can take to the table come race night. When i go out with my domestic guys, i am the import specialist. Same thing when i am out with my import buddies. Not to mention I am a TRUE car lover. I can appreciate fast no matter what it is (except a stang )

 

The H22's came in preludes right? What are the HP and lb/ft on those things?

 

yah the H22's came in 92-up Preludes. They range from 190 hp to 220hp (in the 97-up Prelude Type S. As with all honda engines, there are several variations on the engine. If you named every engine code for honda's i would bet there would be close to 50. H22's are pretty popular among the more serious tuners because of the 200hp, 156 ft/torque. The only draw back to the H22's is that they are the heaviest of the honda engines. Now, not to confuse anyone, but I will try to dip into something you might hear of on the street. Some people take the B18 LS block (from the older 90-93 integras) and put B16/B18C1 (GSR) heads on them. Or for the even more crazy, they take the Honda CRV block, the B20B4, and put the same heads on them. Several generations of honda engines are mix and match. Don't try to take in too much info at once, as all the codes can be confusing. It's easy to mistake a B18C1 (GSR) with a B18C5 (Type R). Easy to confuse the B18A1 (90-93 non-vtec integra) with the B18C1 (GSR). And the B16's came in several types of cars with several variations. Just remember these 3, as they will be the ones you see more. I will leave out the suffix's for now.

B16- 160hp (common swap, pretty dangerous if used right)
B18- 170hp (A little more uncommon, more potential)
H22- 200hp (Powerful heavy motor with a ton of "honda" torque.

 

Yeah, I know a guy around here w/ a B18B in a Civic. He has upgraded turbo/intercooler and stuff. It ran 13.6 @ 109 MPH. I'm not an import fan at all, about the only ones I like are Supras, but even then, there are about 50 Am. cars I'd take before a Supra. But I respect the guy for making a Civic run mid 13's, even though I think he wasted a HUGE amount of money on a car like that.

 

How fast do you think my friends car would be at the track. Its a 95 VTEC Prelude. he has an intake, header(4-2-1), and some strange japanese exhaust. Its a 5 speed and he can drive really well. What do you think it would run?

 

thanks for the info i am gunna be raceing one next week i should win, if i ever get my car running right. but i got another question how much power does the older supras have not the 88 style but the older ones, they r really ugly and look old as heck. what do they got? i think they are call MK2

 

Well a 95 prelude (if Vtec) is gonna be a H22. With the mods that you said, a good driver, and decent track conditions, i would say a 95 might run a 15.8 to a 15.3 (at best conditions) just because of what I've seen them running.

 

well the Mk2's are 82-86. I am not sure how old your talking, but the MK2's (2nd gen supras) are pretty ugly. If it's pre-87, it's not gonna be turbo. So if it IS a MKII, it's not gonna be turbo. At best, its gonna be a 3.0, 200hp, 185 ft/lbs, non-turbo engine. In a car that weighs about 3k, that is only gonna get him a low 16 to high 15. I wouldn't worry too much about a STOCK one of these...

 

Actually that generation of preludes engine code was H23. 2.3 liters not 2.2.
Your info is pretty good but not 100% accurate. The B18c1 was offered from 1994-2001 (until the RSX came out).
I would also disagree about serious Honda tuners using the H22. It is the hardest one to swap into a civic and it is quite a tight fit. Plus the aftermarket is not as strong for the H22 (200 hp not 220; 220 is the Jap spec) as it is for the B-series. And b-series parts are generally cheaper.Another thing about B-series engines is that they are all interchangeable with very minor problems.
Also, the Japan engines are much more aggressive then what we have here in the states. For example:
B16a2 (US civic SI) - 160hp
B16B (Jap civ. Type R) - 195hp or 190hp I forget???
However the new Honda motors (K-series) are starting to prove their worthiness but at a high price. The RSX type S is tapping into the 13's with minor boltons, Hondata flash, and some tuning.

 

well a 92-96 the ludes had H22's or H23's...no H23 in 97. And i said H22's range from 190 hp to 220hp. 220 being the newer prelude type S. As far as the H22 swaps, yeah they are tight, and more rare. But that is something your more prone to see at the track, not the street. That is why I said the serious tuners choose it.

 

ANy new prelude 97 up has an H22 that puts out 200hp. The type SH has a wing, and something I cant remember but not a more powerful engine. I think it has something to do with programming. The H22 from japan has 220hp but that is not available in a US spec car.

 

How about a 93 non vtech prelude with full exhaust (minus stock catalytic) and cold air intake?

Del sol, vtech, headers, stock pipes and catalytic and muffler, cold air intake, a few other goodies.

Thanks

 

what should a early to mid 90's civic hatch 5 speed run with an integra ls motor that has an exhaust and some type of turbo kit (not sure what turbo) with a BOV and intercooler?

 

We should just start a "Know the Enemy" book or something. Make a list of all of the common, enemy cars and normal mods and what they're worth. Give some HP #'s and some 1/4 mile times as well.

Just a thought.

 

lol good idea

 

Those 92-86 prelude non VTEC's are dogs. A del sol vtec on the other hand is pretty peppy and with an excellent driver can pull mid 15's. They are a lot heavier then you think they would be. I saw one at the track last week run a best 16.1X @ 87.XX.
It had intake and exhaust.

 

Well that depends on a lot. For example turbo size, tuning, amt of bost. I saw a 93 hatch w/ a B18B (Integra LS motor) bang out a 12.01 @ 119. He bogged at the line and ended up pulling an LS6 corvette top end. I think the vette ran a 12.64 @ 111 (does that sound right?)

 

If there is one thing I can say, if you have a car quicker than a 15.0 than you dont have to worry about 85% of hondas (civics, integras I am talking about). Not RSX, s2000, type r's, etc. The other thing is; do you guys really race on the streets this much? I may have raced a total of 5 times within the 4 years I have been driving. That includes 3 races in my moms old Lumina.

 

Every single one of my friends are import guys, so I would like to think some of their knowledge has rubbed off onto me. As for the del Sol, my friend has one. It comes w/a b16 (160 HP), weighes 2300 lbs, and is a 5 speed. He got it a month ago and is going to run it soon, but I'd have to say (from riding in it) that it runs mid 15's. One of my friends (the only non-import guy I know) has a 2000 Grand Am GT and pulls 15.7 at the track. My friend's del Sol held with him off the line, but lost a little bit in the first two gears; however, in third gear he came back to win at about 85 mph. I'm not sure he had a good launch in the del Sol, though.

As for engine mixing and matching, that happens a lot with DSM (Diamond Star Motors) drivers'. One of my best friends is a mechanic and has a '95 Talon Tsi. With minor boltons he was pulling 14s cause he can launch that thing at 4500 and not spin (AWD turbo). He's doing a complete rebuild right now - he might get into the 11s when it's back on the road - non-nitrous 11s.

Most of my Honda friends (it's funny how I seperate them by car manufacturer - I have Honda friends, DSM friends, Toyota friends, and a few plain ***** friends ), while they respect the H22, they would rather swap to a b18 because it is lighter, and the new ones put out 195 HP anyway, which is darn close to the H22. Plus, like he said, there is a lot more aftermarket availible.

As for the non-VTEC Preludes, they are dogs - from 92 up. I owned a 1991 Prelude Si (not the 2.0 Si, but the full-blown one), which had a 2.1L 140HP engine in it. It was before the body style change, so it only weighed 2500 lbs. It ran hi 16s, but I think if I had power-braked I coulda gotten mid 16s.

I'll end my ramble here.

 

No worries then hehe, I'll give em a run.

 

by the way...the "know your enemy book" sounds like an awsome Idea. I am working on a printable mini-guide to racing against imports. I will try to include pictures as well.

 

let me ask this

what does an 88 camaro z run with a 350 motor that has some exhuast, heads, and cam?


let me guess wanna know what type of cam and heads right?

same thing with the turbo and how much boost

 

FAST! hahah :hail:

 

A friend of mine swapped a B16 into an early 90's CRX with header, intake and exhaust and it is a rock solid 15 second car, like 15.4-15.6's all day long. I dont see how it could run 14.2's...

 

Depends on the B16, and it also depends on internals. Sometimes ppl get B16 with bottom end work done or head work.