this dude is talkin some serious trash. he has a 1989 Nissan 240sx with the stock KA engine, and a cat back exhaust. I have a 1991 Camaro RS with the 305 TBI with headers and a full exhaust. He says that he would completely dominate me in the 1/4. i haven't ever ridden in his car but he says it would smoke me. what do you guys think?

 

you do realize you own a 16 second car right? but stock 240's with the KA's will do something like a 15.7.

 

In most cases, an L03 owner should probably err on the side of caution. These motors are all bark and no bite.

Just be glad your car is much better looking.

That said, he may not beat you, I dont know enough about them to say for sure. You've got headers (And a catback I assume?) so I would guess that your L03 breathes a litlte better than stock... but still...

 

With all the "What would happen with my 305?" threads, there needs to be a sticky that sais:

305s, how slow they really are...

From there list the cars with factory times that are slower(the average ones)


Best i ever got outta a TBI 305 was a 16.50 in the 1/4. That should be a sticky

 

Must have been a poor running, stock TBI car... my 305 car could do about 2 second better than that.

I think its important to remember that the majority of 3rd gen's actually came with the "junk" 305 motor, so you're gonna see a lot of "what if" street race questions. Us poor boys that can just throw what little change is in our piggy banks at our cars every now and then are probably out on the street playing around a lot more than the high dollar, well built cars.

 

if it is a SOHC 240, you'll be able to beat him. its those DOHC motors that tend to get ya. but with a full exhaust, even if it is a DOHC, it should be close.

 

i think you could take him. you've got basic upgrades, he has a crappy sounding exaust system. those are 4-cylinders right? that would practically hand you the launch, if you know how to drive. what tranny does he have though? it makes a huge difference.

 

Everyone i ever see with a auto and a 305 is mid 13s. The 305 TPI...yea, it runs better. I do not have money, i just sell old stuff to fund the new. Nickle and dime, i hunt for deals. If anyone is serious about wanting more power, they will look everywhere for a deal, deals dont find you too often. I have 1000$ in my 383 and im killing bolt on LS1s. If i had money i wouldnt have a 2.73 in the rear

 

Exactly - a lot of 305 guys are just working with what they've got, until they get the chance to move to something better...

The 240sx will actually mod up pretty well, just add an exhaust and crank up the boost. They make pretty strong torque for a 4 cylinder, and with good driving can be launched well. That being said, if you can drive your 3rd Gen, you should be able to out-launch pretty easily. I have a friend with a stripped out 240SX, DOHC KA motor, 12lbs of boost, exhaust, good clutch, rubber, etc. 0-40mph I can smoke him, he can launch, but not like converter and gears. 0-60mph is tie. By the time we get past 60, he cruises right on by.

 

his car is a 5 speed, and my car is an auto. i have the 700R4. he does have really stiff coil over suspension on his car if that makes any difference.

 

a stock us spec 240 is non turbo 2.4 litter 4 cyl the 89 came with 135 hp SOHC. One of my friends had an 89 240 completely stock i drove it a few times and beat my friends 90 5.0 auto mustang with a cold air intake. They jump off the line so don't plan on beating him on takeoff specially when he has a 5spd. With the mods you have it would be a close race but if he can drive i'd put my money on him. If he has the sr20 swap on it forget it thats a 12 second car SR20 is a common swap on those its a 2.0 turbo engine with about 205 hp and 200+tq and the car is lite

 

I will say this... I raced a 240sx when i was stockish.... (full exhaust and CAI) and a distributor that was worn out and it got me off the line....but i pulled on it afterwards
btw my best time with stock internals was 14.4 with 2.5" catback, which was choking my motor.

 

I would honestly not be surprised if you lost. LO3's = dog motors

 

I refuse to believe the best i can get out of a tbi 305 is 16.5 that just doesnt seem right. sounds like it must've been a crappy running car. will verify though becuase i should be going to the track soon

 

Believe it.

Go crazy if you touch 15's.

 

i'm also a nissan guy so maybe i can help, alot of my friends mess with 240's and there are some things you should know.

If it's a hatch car, it is pretty heavy and if your car is running right, it would be a good race. if it's a notch car, i think he'll win they are MUCH lighter cars.

the KA24 has roughly equivelent hp to an lo3 but less torque, the output is about 160hp and 185 ft lbs of torque, but they launch pretty good. it's a very good race between a 90's RS and a notch m5 240sx.

The dohc's are more powerfull stock but the sohc's are nearly indestructible. i own one, they can take a beating and a half without wearing the cross hatch off the cylinder walls.

My best with my 92 rs was a 15.6, that's a cat back and open element car that was timed by a 16 yr old (me at the time). it coulda run 15.5's with a good owner. that's pretty good for where that car was at being an lo3.

 

His 240SX is the hatch back style.I have my timing set at 0 cause i think thats what one of the Chilton or Haynes books recommended. Is there more power potential if i advance it a little bit? i did also take off all of my EGR and my Cat, i dont know if that really helped me out that much or not.

 

Mine ran 15.1 with some chassis modifications and sticky tires. Stock engine, stock gears, stock exhaust. S10 4L60E trans and later model TBI PCM though. 1.85s 60' times really rocket you out of the hole, but the stock L03 quickly gives up and the MPH only read around 87 mph. 15.15 @ 86.5 mph with a 1.9s 60' was what most of the time slips read.

 

Mine was bone stock with a open element and a blowmaster.

 

What is a blowmaster and what did you run?


Mine bone stock, stock tires, stock everything, ran 16.1 in the low 80's with a i think a 2.3-2.4 60ft. That, for the most part, is what stock LO3 cars run.
----------
I noticed the sig said 305 TPI. Is that right?

 

Blowmaster = flowmaster

 

I could only go 16.50, i am also 290 LBS, which hurts a low powered car even more.

 

Im also on the heavier side, about 235 pounds. Im just a little disappointed at how the lo3 performs, even if it is an underpowered engine, its still more then twice the size of a stock KA.

He also said he wants to get a turbo kit and an engine rebuild kit for his car.
Im trying to save up for the blueprint engines 383 base, hopefully ill be quite a bit faster. it has 405hp and 440tq. what kind of 1/4 mile times could be expected from that? Would the 383 be enough to keep up with him whenever he does put his turbo on?

 

The L03 was a horrible motor to begin with. Everything on the motor was awful. Intake, tbi, heads, cam, all of it was awful as far as performance design. It was basically a "all bark no bite" kind of motor. The thirdgen years was an awful year for GM motors except for a few exceptions.

 

A stoker will keep up with a BS turbo kit bolted on with the 405 HP you say it should have. That would be capable of mid-low 12s in your ride. Depending on which mods he has, there is nothing a 150 shot of nitrous wouldnt fix. That would generally push you up to a litle over 550 HP and 600 ftlbs of torque. DEEP 11s easily.

 

405 hp would actually be more like low 13s to very high 12s. LS1's do 13.1 1/4 stock with stock tires and a decent driver, and its not uncommon for them to dip into the 12's. They make 390-ish hp, and have Better technology to be a little more efficent than most of our 3rd gens.

ZONES89RS - I doubt your killing "bolt on LS1's" with your motor and 2.73 rear gears, unless that LS1 driver cant shift worth a damn, or is constantly missing 3rd. Your car doesnt have the power or the gearing to "destroy" an LS1 man, sorry. You probably raced an LT1

 

Sorry to dissapoint you, but yes, i kill LS1s easily with the 383 i have, i pull them hardest in 3rd gear. You have a 383 listed in your sig so you should know how well they run with all your pricey parts. I have 1000$ in my whole motor, you have more than that in your heads.

Sorry you are so bothered, but i know what a LT1 car and a LS1 car look like probably better than you. I am not a bullsh!tter and never will be so get over it.

 

Double post

 

What LS1 ever made 390hp stock that came in an F-body? They do run low 13's, but thats with about 320-340 hp at the flywheel. 400hp at the flywheel, in a light weight 3rd gen (ie NOT an IROC/GTA with every power option) could easily turn mid 12's.

And I'm sure Zone's 383 hangs with the stockish 346 boy just fine.

 

[/quote] What LS1 ever made 390hp stock that came in an F-body? They do run low 13's, but thats with about 320-340 hp at the flywheel. 400hp at the flywheel, in a light weight 3rd gen (ie NOT an IROC/GTA with every power option) could easily turn mid 12's.

And I'm sure Zone's 383 hangs with the stockish 346 boy just fine.[/quote]

ATC3434, So your saying an LS1 pushes Only 270hp to the wheels then LMAO. They run 305 - 315 whp, the do 390ish at the crank. Do a little research.

 

I've done some research. The average (set the freak stories a-side, there are just as many freak dogs) LS1 f-body car does about 290-300 wheel hp. If you assume 290rwhp, a 17% driveline loss in a 6spd car, that only 339hp at the crank, 351hp if you can find 300rwhp. You would need a 30% driveline loss at 300rwhp to get the crank hp numbers you're talking about, and the worst automatics in the world arn't that bad.

 

if somebody has a 383 and doesnt beat an LS1, they have some tuning issues

 

My bolt-on LS1 car has been 12.25@109 with Previous owner, however I have only driven it to 12.52@108, (lifters are going out). I plan on geting heads/cam when I fix the lifters to remedy this though. I dont think a 383 3rd gen has a chance, unless its carbed and can actualy make power beyond 5500RPMs.

back on topic though, if you want to race your RS, throw a can of seafoam in it and go race him for fun.

 

I'm sorry, a what?

 

True story - most of them are pretty heavy. They can vary so much in weight. My L98 car was power everything, all options, and was a heavy pig. The Sport Coupe in my signature below is a stripper, no options, no emissions, no A/C. I haven't ditched the back seats yet, but I'm thinking why not, they sure arn't good for much. Anyways, its a pretty light car, I have got the weight yet, but I'll bet it is at least 500-600lbs lighter than my IROC was.

Cannon007 - not all 383 third gens are TPI slugs, most anybody going inside the motor internals is gonna make sure they're running a hot cam, good heads, and induction to feed it right. That ought to be 400 or well more easily, with tremendous torque, and would be eating bolt on LS1's all day.

I guess it might depend on what you call bolt-ons...

 

Throw a Cam or do an Exhaust on a stock LS1, and your over 400hp, i still wonder how your coming up with 383's beating them no problem. Although my 83 is a Z-28, so maybe im a little weight disadvantaged, i never knew there was that much difference in weight between camaros. But my 383 is Dyno'd (not estimated) pushin 423hp, 427 ft/lbs at the crank and LS1's are still gettin me sometimes. I do get excessive tire spin at launch, so maybe thats whats causing it. But all im sayin is that LS1 are quick when the driver is good, even when you got a 383 in your car.

 

A cam swap is not a bolt on. You're original challege was that Zone's 383 was not likely to beat a "bolt on LS1" (you're quotes, not mine). I still feel that you're incorrect, a bolt on (intake, exhaust, tuning, average joe mods, not power adders or internal engine work) LS1 is not going to hold its own against a built 383. If you can't launch, thats a different story.

The weight difference can be pretty staggering. A fully optioned L98 GTA could weight over 3600lbs no problem, my stipped S/C is probably closer to 3100lbs. Thats a couple tenths right there in the quarter. Check out this link for some more weight differences... https://www.thirdgen.org/tech-data

 

I did reasearch on how much the back seats actually weigh and it is maybe 10lbs. Really not worth it.

So you really think you lost 500-600lbs by not having emissions, no power anything, and no a/c? That is amazing.

 

No. Not at all. I think a fully optioned GTA, the heaviest of all third gens, is easily 3650lbs. A bare-bones, no optioned Sport Coupe, with some adt'l minor weight reduction (maybe another 75lbs between the A/C, emissions, and other un-needs items I've gutted) would be close to 3100lbs. There is the 500lbs difference. I said:

I'll bet it(it being my SC) is at least 500-600lbs lighter than my IROC was.

I never said I lost 500lbs, I said the difference between an exceptionally light 3rd Gen and an exceptionally heavy 3rd Gen could be 500-600lbs. The point was that a light weight model of a 3rd Gen, with built 383 power, would be quicker than a "bolt on" LS1 car.

 

ah ok

 

Yes, my car is carbed and i shift at 6250. Mine waqs a TBI car, no chance in hell i would keep that thing with that injection.

urmomshot77_ Dont be surprised if my car would get you thru the eigth mile due to your overpowering the tires, LS1 get me by a nose out of the hole and i have to chase them down, which is rather quickly.

I think my car is 3350ish. My last RS was 3450 with a automatic, this one is a stick and has racing seats in it so i am sure i have cut close to another 100 Lbs. vbmenu_register("postmenu_3548876", true);

 

You have no grounds to knock a TBI setup. I constantly pulled my 350 up to 6,500 rpm with a 2" bore GM TBI setup. 5,300 lbs of 3.08 geared van ran a 14.5 @ 98 mph in the 1/4 with the Vortec 350. Dyno'd 385 RWHP @ 6,300 rpm.

 

Good for you. Im not nocking it, i have a tight budget and hunting down a big block TBI and a good intake VS using a carb i already have and a intake that is better than anything that is made for a TBI i refuse to use it. I dont have a lap top or tuning hardware for TBI anyways.

 

you can dip into the 12's with 250whp if you really wanted to.

 

250 whp hit of nitrous!!!lol

 

I think you would winn prolly. I have all stock lo3 305 with T56 and just MSD6AL ignition. I ran a 15.5 in the 1/4.

 

You have a lighter trans and the capability to control your launch, he will be a second slower than you prolly.

 

No. 254rwhp on a chassis dyno at 3470lbs can get you a 12.95 with some good tires and full bolt ons.


orr89rockZ's IROC mod list

thread with dyno run

 

You fail to mention the torque, that is the reason it runs so well in the 1/4. I figgured as much, TPI cars are torque monsters. 315 Tq is quite a bit.

 

can't we all just get along?? haha. to add to the whole GTA weight thing, mine came in at a healthy 3500 lbs, here's the breakdown, i dropped the heavy trans am spoiler for the firebird one, that alone was at least 50 lbs, i dropped the rear seats fold down part, i dropped a/c, emmisions, some sound deadening, and i have a jenny craig rust diet. about 200 lbs off.

now i'll be going to a normal rust free trans am in the winter with little to no sound deadening, race seats, eventually a manual trans,and the camaro spoiler on the back (the lightest i believe) and a few other goodies. but i'm adding in a 100 lb speaker and relocatiing the battery, the system ought to not hurt so bad as it adds a bit to rear traction(not much but i gotta justify the tunes ya know?)

in any case all said and done i want to lose 100 lbs, gain traction, and add a bit of power to inch me into the 13's (14.3 best pretty much stock)