rideon1200

Guy keeps running his mouth about his fast 3rd. He just does not realize what he would be up against. How bad will I beat this guy. I have a few bolt ons nothing major. i read an article that LS1 dyno at 380 but they had to put 340 because Vette has to be faster. Bolt ons add another 30-40HP. Not trying to bash thirds, I have one. But come on....if you have ever ridden in a 02 you know what I'm talking about.

LMSkyliner

iTrader: (1)

seems like it would barely be a race to me. Youll pull him hard all the way to the end.. He'll have to have alot more than a 305 to beat an LS1

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Ill race you in my RS....it is just and RS

If the guy really thinks his 305 is fast then his definition of fast is all jacked up. Tell him he is not worth your time and take him for a ride if he is not a believer. If not, crush him in your 87.

rideon1200

He will not race my 87 He want to race my stock 02. I told him even with all the upgrades to the 87 the LS1 would blow its doors off. My heads are the restriction on my 87.

PHAT89TA

i tell u this, i beat a 87 350tpi with no use of 1st and 4th gear. this is was when my 02 ws6 was stock and dynoed 325rwhp 342rwtq.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Sorry but your LS1 didn't put down 380.. and it has NOTHING to do with the vette.

rideon1200

Well, I guess you have insight that the pontiac techs dont have. In the article the Formula/trans am is listed at 340, they said it regular test 40 more HP on the dyno. The reason was the Vette is supposed to be there power plant. You can check the numbers of the vette which had many of the same suspension parts. That would put HP at 380.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

What in God's name are you talking about? The Vette does NOT have the same suspension parts as a Fbody Solid axle vs IRS. The trans is connected to the rear diff itself. The vette uses a "torque tube". LS1 Fbodies and Vettes DO NOT put down 380hp on the dyno in stock form.

markymarco

iTrader: (10)

what dose suspension have to do with hp numbers u lose. rideon1200 FTMFL!!!

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

LS1s dyno 300-340 stock. Some are factory freaks.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

my 87 305 TPI also put 380hp stock...I have a factory freak too...

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

SWEEET

ibmtech

iTrader: (1)

I would consider that a real freak, considering from the factory it was only rated at around 215 hp. Since the 350 TPI in 87-88 was only rated at 245 hp. Biggest question I would have to ask, What freakish change at factory did they do to get almost 170 hp more than what rolled out on the floor from the engine production plant? Using GM production parts, that haven't been modified for that year, that would be impossible!

atc3434

iTrader: (4)

There, quote fixed.

ibmtech

iTrader: (1)

WHEW!!! Scared me for a second.. I was thinking that my car was about to almost get beat by a 305 TPI

That was funny Sarcasm though...

F&Ybodlover

an 02 Formula is rated at 310hp at the flywheel. They dyno any where from a little under to a little over 300hp, which is about 340-350hp.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

But what about the suspension?????

brodyscamaro

I can't believe you bought that though... lol

rideon1200

I have never had my car on a dyno, I am just saying what I read. I have driven 71 camaro (i owned) 70 GTO (i owned) 68 lemans (i owned) 76 Trans am (i owned) 70 road runner (friends) and a Cuda (friends). I had a v8 vega, but that was in a class of its own. The 02 is the fastest car I have ever drove. Maybe mods were done to it before I purchased it, but it rolls. Maybe after being domesticated for 8 years and driving around in a caravan warped my memory.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Wherever you read it the author must be on crack. Neither the Fbody nor the Ybody LS1 cars put out 380hp...PERIOD.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Z06 would put down 405 at the fly, but that is a LS6 as you know.

F&Ybodlover

wrong....Carl Black blackbirds did.
http://www.firebirdgallery.com/carlblacklot1.htm

rideon1200

Ill track down where I read that. Might have been online.

rideon1200

ok, still looking but if you go to google and type speed of camaro ss. It will pull up a page that states " 2002 firebird rated at 305hp dynoed at 295 and vette rated at 350 put out 285." Still looking for that page. It might have been 365 hp. I know it was 30 or 40 above rated hp. Old age makes suff fuzzy. and if I cant find it Ill clain dementia.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, its a real freak, from the plant in Van Nuys, the Frankenstein sector

But one of my resolutions for 2008, one that I hope to accomplish next winter, is an engine swap, I would love an LS1, but I think I'll aim for the abundant LT1, unless I hit the lottery...

rideon1200

As I have always said, everyone has 500 hp till they get on the Dyno.
----------
Glad I got everyone rilled up. They board seemed kind of dead lately.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

That's stock there buddy

ibmtech

iTrader: (1)

Fly89GTA did you have the 3.8 SFI Grand National power plant in your car? I noticed that earlier and forgot to ask.. I was just wondering how the power was with that setup.

matt3383

A stock F-Body LS1 is only going to dyno in the low 300s to the wheels. Maybe the article you read was reading flywheel horsepower. A full bolt on LS1 f-body will not reach the 380 mark to the rear wheels. My full bolt on is only at 340 to the wheels.

Reguardless a carbed 305 will not stand a chance against a stock ls1 unless he has a decent amount of work done to it, plain and simple. Its a 15 second car against a 13 second car.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

Those Blackbirds are sweet cars. A guy in my car club has one. (seriously)

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

I had one from a TTA(almost the same thing). It was a fun swap though the motor I was sold ended up being a bad deal It was fun while it lasted, lol.

The low end torque on those things is amazing

ibmtech

iTrader: (1)

I know what you are talking about, I almost bought a GNX a few years ago. The main reason that I started working on my engine was because I was getting killed by all the Grand Nationals. I don't know why GM never went to a Intercooled engine in the F-Bodies or did they?

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

The 89 TTA was intercooled. It was basically the same set up as the GN/GNX with some differences(heads and exhaust manifolds were different, intercooler was better than the GN among some other things).

I'll own a TTA in the next few years I think.

gary sanders

This is some crazy stuff,lol I got a friend,he owns a 1998 LS1 Trans am,when it was all stock he took it to the dyno shop.On the dyno it made 260 hp at the wheels,it was rated at 300 hp at the crank in 1998,at the drag strip(1/4 mile) it ran 13.58 at 103 mph.
After ,new 6.0 heads,new cam,540 lift,373 gears,the car went 12.70,s then with 100 shot Nitrous it went 11.90,s thats it.After spending a ton of money,he got almost 1 second faster than stock,until nitrous was installed.
Now ,I will get bashed to death for this,the LS1 is fast,but it is not the BEAST everyone thinks,IT IS THE WAY THE MOTOR MOVES THE AIR INSIDE THE HEADS,it makes almost the same power numbers as the L98 at 3000 rpms,but above 3000 rpms,it blows the L98 off the dyno!!!The LS1 will rev to 6500 RPM,before hitting the rev limiter in stock form,thats where it gets the L98,the L98 will only pull to 5000 rpm,before it runs out of its power band in stock form,that extra 1800 RPM that the LS1 makes is where its at.
Now a 305 in stock form,will pull to 4500 before the engine is out of its power band,and make 175 to 230 horse at the crank(depending on carb or fuel injection),it will rev higher than 4500 rpm,but it HAS NO MORE POWER(STOCK),so that being said,with 2200 rpm less than a LS1 ,WHO DO YOU THINK WILL BEAT WHO????
The 305 in stock form went 15 to 16 second quarter mile times,some have gotten there 305 to run HIGH 12,S,but not stock it didnt happen,if you have one that will go 12,s stock,A BIG CONGRATS TO YOU,You got yous on a friday and Gm was LOOKING OUT FOR YA on that day!!!
Also,the CORVETTE,is in a class by its self,you can not compare it to a FBODY,the LS1 in the vette has different HEADS,EHXAUST,INTAKE,and revs HIGHER than 6500 RPM,IT WILL REV TO 7200 RPM,before hitting the rev limiter stock!!!That 700 rpm more does make a little difference,plus the LS1 in the vette makes its power at lower rpms and pulls longer than the LS1 in the FBODY!!!!!
Yes it is possible to out run a vette with a Fbody,but you better know youR stuff when you do,it wont be 10 car lengths,if it is,the guy driving the vette pulled oveR,and let you win,Corvette owners do not like that at all,being out run by a car costing less than a CORVETTE!!!!
YOU WILL SMOKE THAT 305 BY ALMOST 2 FULL SECONDS,EVEN IF IT HAS 456 GEARS!!!!

TLS_Addict

Wow! I was reading this thing and I have to interject! You guys sound just like the other forums I belong to. Which is good I might add.

From what I have seen earlier LS1 cars dyno STOCK at 275-295 at the wheels and the later ones (01-02) dyno around 300-310 due to the revised cam, better block (yes its different and some 01/02 F-bodies use LS6 blocks) and a better intake. 04 GTO's dyno anywhere from 285-315 at the rear, a lot depends on how good the factory tuning was. 97-2000 vettes dyno in the 290 range and 01 up LS1 are above the 300 mark. LS6 (385 hp) dyno's around 335 at the wheels and the LS6 (405) comes in around 345 at the rears. That is what I have seen, not saying anything against anyone here. Most LS2 GTO's are dyno'ing in at 330+hp at the rears with the factory tune.

BTW roughly 1 of every 4 cars in 02 (F-bodies) got the LS6 block, 18% of 01 f-bodes got the LS6 block. ALL 2004 GTO's got the LS6 block. The other thing is the 243 heads from the LS2 are basically LS6 heads. The valves differ in that the exhaust on the LS6 heads are sodium filled.....I also believe the springs are different to accomodate the .550 cam. Even though the STOCK LS1's should take that lift no problem.

Either way you will COMPLETELY HUMILIATE that 305 carb car. Nothing wrong with them but they are power houses like your LS1.

F&Ybodlover

There are are several types of dynos(mustang, dynojet etc.) and ways of testing(open, closed hood etc.) No two dynos will usually read the same. 260hp for a LS1 is very low, it is and or a low reading dyno or a poorly tuned engine. A 13.5 @ 103 is a decent time for an 98-00 automatic 2.73 car, but not so much for one with a 6spd and 3.42's.. so without more info it's hard to tell if the 260 was done on a low reading dyno or the motor isn't up to snuff.

the motors are identical with anything affecting power, save for the exhaust and air intake...same years/trans have about the same hp at the wheels, the Vettes lose a few more due to the IRS suspension.

F&Ybodlover

and I have both cars, 91 Formula 350 3.23 hardtop and 98 Trans Am 2.73 T-top. My Formula just has some light mods like some free mods, MSD ignition components, an open K&N and Aerochamber muffler, my T/A as of now just has MSD wires and a Flowmaster...best way to describe them is my Formula feels like a big block driving around town(it will light the tires easily even from a 30 roll) compared to my LS1, while my T/A feels like a 4 cammer compared to my Formula out on the highway.

TLS_Addict

You may want to check because the F-BODY does NOT get the same tranny as the Vette. The GTO and the Vette share the same gearing in the 6-speed tranny, the F-body gets "lazy" gears for 1st-3rd. The intake and cam and block are different in 98-99 than the 2001 and up, 2000o saw some changs in the block for oiling and not sure but I think almost all C5's get the LS6 block from 01 up, ALL LS1 intakes however are the same from 01 up, the 98-00 intakes are not quite as good and there are some variations in the block that makes them different from the later years.

F&Ybodlover

Both use a T56 with minor differences, that won't affect power on a dyno,the Vettes are located in the rear. The gearing in both the trans and axle(3.42) non Z06 vette 6spd cars and F-bod is the same. automatic LS1 F-bods either had a 2.73 or 3.23 while Vettes got 2.73 or 3.15. All LS1 intake manifolds are the same from 01+ the air intakes are differnt from F-bods and Vettes.

TLS_Addict

I agree. The Intakes from 01 up are ALL the same. Some F-bodies get the LS6 block (easy way to tell). You are also correct, the gear ratio's differ slightly in the F-body and the C5. The early LS1 blocks are different from the later years. Just minor improvements is all

Either way you have a kick-A$$ machine.

quickbrad

Why dont you just beat him and then tell us about it.

gary sanders

I wonder why GM list 2 different cam shafts for the CORVETTE,AND THE FBODY,HMMM maybe because they just got board one day and said,lets build two cars,with the same power,and sell one for $65,000 and the other for $28,000,YEA that will work!!!!
They are about the same as a U-GO and a FIREBIRD!!!

gary sanders

You see,a long time ago,somone invented the internial combustion engine,and they figured out it was TOQURE that moves a car ,HORSE POWER keeps it going,GM did there home work on the LS1,YES the L98 is stronger starting out,then the LS1 starts to move the air in the heads,ALL L98-350,s are bottlenecked from the factory,dont take my word,ask Anybody that has pulled the heads off of a L98 in the FBODY(NOT CORVETTE L98).I love the FBODY,it a POOR-MANS CORVETTE!!! But the LS1,Is GEN 3 smallblock,it was built to overcome all the SCREW-UPS that GM MADE in previous years.Plus the GEN 1 smallblock was 50 years old,
It was made to overcome the loss of TOQURE,NOT HORSE POWER,Just READ the difference in the LS1 GEN 3 vs THE GEN 1 smallblock,GM did not spend a ton of money to make an engine to be equal to the GEN 1(L98) smallblock.
It has different configuration than the GEN 1 smallblock,different head configuration,cam,pistons,so on,than the GEN 1,DIDNT SAY it was better,but GM hoped it was!!!!!
BACK TO TOPIC!!!!!

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

http://www.transamws6.com/video/race.wmv

TLS_Addict

They might list 2 different cams because the LS6 uses I think a 550 lift vs that of a 500 lift for the LS1.

Also I believe a SMALL revision was made in 01 and up on the cam to give a little more midrange for the LS1. Not sure but I am thinking that is the case. That is why you see 2 cams listed (should see 3).

rideon1200

Well, I took him for a ride last night. He doesnt want to race anymore.

gary sanders

There you go,some people you have to show!!!!!!

F&Ybodlover

Hows this test for ya wise guy?

F&Ybodlover

Like I said the only differences affecting power between the LS1 engines of the same year between F-bods and Vettes are the air intakes and exhaust, not the heads, not the cams, etc. On a dyno the Vette's IRS eats more power so they usually dyno equally.

gary sanders

Like I said,$65,000 or $28,000? You tell the corvette owners this,Im not telling them,and GM DOES LIST DIFFERENT CAM NUMBERS FOR THE LS1 IN THE CORVETTE!!!,Im just listing FACTS,and Ive read that, what you posted a long time ago,I guess the Corvette owners have been riped off for years then,you posted it not me!!! And I didnt call you a wise guy,but its ok,we all have BAD days,lol