fryer1979

LMFAO! I love the apple! That was the good laugh I needed before bed. Truthfully, that is not really all that bad, most of the apples I have seen lately would fit inside a standard 3" pipe. And the dirt..... just shows you drive it.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

just to thorw it out there, have you ever driven a Mk4 supra? Even stock it will throw you for a loop, technology and modern engineering have brought japanese (and american) motors to a new platform, HERE, we all drool over a corvette, ""american muscle....yaaaaayyyyy" Over THERE they worship the GTR "japanese power....yaaaaayyyy. Its all the same. im not gonna lie, ive been completely r@ped by a couple FC Rx7s and this really nice boosted GSX. Do you know why?? They love their cars, and they love them going fast, dont we all? Different people like different things, i am partial to F-bodys, dont get me wrong, but if i could get a nice looking FC id do it.

We're all complaining here about this car is r!ce and this one is muscle but who cares, it only matters when you throw down your hand and either win, or lose. I wouldnt dare to take on a MK4 supra just like i wouldnt be retarded enough to race a ZR1.

There are multiple cars on here with clear marker lights, wheels and put on a cheap set of exhaust tips that look and sound terrible. We all do it, its not the car its the owner. The sparkplug thing i think is pretty good though, and yeah ive had a gut try to tell me he had this awesome JDM intake, but it was just a cheap remake and was junk

Something else to consider... I grew up around old school muscle, there wasnt a day in my life my dad didnt have me out in the driveway helping him fix soemthing he busted at the track, Never have my parents owned a honda or a toyota, it was a 69 GTO, a 69 Grand Prix, an 87 mustang GT, a 79 Z28 or a truck or a van. I grew up around V8's i am in love with them flat out but i have to give it up to some of these cars. We go retarded with Vettes here, who the hell needs the new Corvette to have a SC? Thats too much.. GTRs, who needs a car to go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds( or close to) I will shake the hand of an import owner as fast as i would a muscle car owner if its built and they know their stuff. As a side note have you looked at Import tuner mag lately? Sexy car, hot girl on the front, whats not to like? They have a "turbo your car" main article lol Look at the chevy mag and its this big motor stacked with an SC saying how easy it is for you to do ( they dont mention the $$ part). Ive taken a few people for a ride in my car and ive gotten nothing but good responses, my friend even went out and bought a 91Z. Its good stuff to make people feel what i do every day i get on the road.

See? was it that hard to say everyone? Course not. R!CE and Import are two seperate worlds, Being blind bashing every thing thats not an fbody is ignorant. Theres no reason for it at all. Better yet, why dont you go find someone with an NSX or a MK4(can ya tell i love thos things) and go talk trash to them, watch them destroy your car and leave you crying. Stock to Stock that is.

BTW isnt it funny how our cars resale value has tanked over the years and KBB wont even list a price for "poor" condition but the japanese built supra stll sells for about 30k?????


(fryer sorry for hacking up your post but yours was the last and most logical unbiased one i found, or was willing to look for atleast lol)

fryer1979

Thank you for your attention To answer your question, yes I have driven quite a few Supras, including one VERY hot '96 twin turbo. If I remember correctly that car was pushing very close to 800 horses, (not cheap at all). Also have been behind the wheel of a 575 RWHP FC RX7, a 643 RWHP NSX, and a 600+ RWHP '95 300z. I agree with you completely, some of those cars are seriously fast. I have personally built a certified 10 second civic for a guy years ago, (took a gutted interior, tube chassis, a B18 motor swap, and a ton of turbo). I was just generalizing, as you could tell. I agree too that it is always the guy that makes the car, and I really like talking to and racing with the guys who truely love "tuning" their cars. It just makes me laugh and I always feel sorry for the cars, when I see the r1cers. Again the Hondas were an easy example, I comstantly run into guys with any type of car you could imagine that fall into the "rice" category, I almost always shed a tear when it is an undeserving F-body. As far as value goes, it isn't quite fair to compare a Supra to a third gen, the MR2 (which I am always very cautious around btw) is a bit more comparable as far as their place in the manufacturers line-up. But point taken none the less. Don't worry about "hacking up" my post, I am sure you and I could have a blast sharing stories, and even looking for trouble on the streets.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

ive only been lucky enough to drive 1 supra but ive ridden in a couple NSX's and worked on a couple 300zx's, and yeah the supra to thirgen thing was a bad example but some people just need to realize that yeah, our cars are great fun but we're not top **** anymore, granted some of us have cars that are high power beasts but its the money you want to put in to get that power. kinda hard for me being in college to drop all my money into my car but jesus i wish i could lol

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats the problem today tho, go to any car show with the majority being muscle cars and hot rods, and watch a civic or some import pull in. It can be a stock bodied car with just rims, lowered alittle, and exhaust and the ppl will mock it and talk alittle about it. 4 banger this, 4 banger that. Meanwhile that car could have a 400+whp turbo motor in it but its still not the same to them. Its sad but i will say this

I HATE FWD. I never want to be in a fwd car. Imports are fine as long as they are RWD or AWD. FWD is horrible i cant believe ppl want to race those cars. They need so much power just to run good et's because they cant launch at all

LMSkyliner

iTrader: (1)

hey justin, i know that you were saying what other ppl say, but don't, theoretically, FWDs launch better than RWDs? I thought i remembered hearing that somewhere, because most of the weight is on the front wheels, they stick very well. Also, there is less drivetrain loss. The only reason i think for slow launches is that many of these cars are turbo charged.. so turbo lag for the loss.

327???

Absolutely not, when they launch weight transfers off the front wheels to the rear wheels.

fryer1979

Fwd cars do have problems with launching, as stated above, when launching a car no matter the drive wheels, the weight always shifts to the rear. it is a trick to get them to grip, and then you have to fight the torque steer problems that come with different legnths of CV shafts. That is why the bigger and faster imports usually are RWD, RX7, SUPRA, all of the Z-cars, non AWD Skylines, NSX.

No matter what may be under the hood of that civic that is cruising the hot rod show, it is simply a case of wrong place at the wrong time. Come on, a modern japanese car at a classic American show? Of course he is going to get laughed at, we would cruising one of their shows. However, if that civic had a true 400 hp, it would not sound anywhere hear stock and would definitly raise an eyebrow or two.

Please don't take me wrong on this, I am not trying to glorify imports. I tune and build these cars because that it where money is these days. I go to their shows, and read their magazines so I can try and get all the edges I can, and maybe apply some technology to my own rides. I have F-bodies, and I would not trade the driving experience these cars provide for anything. To me, the F-body is the top, but I am willing to live and let ride. Just don't be r1ce!

Ok, I am done, I think I have beat my point to death.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

The show in question is primarily dominated by old cars but thats just our area, it wasnt ment to be a old school show, its a car cruise for all cars/trucks etc. even bikes. its just that mentality of most of the older car guys, they dont have respect for imports. I mean there is a NASTY R34 Skyline out there and no one really raises an eyebrow, they have no idea how rare and expensive this car is.

And a turbo 400 whp car sounds just like a 100whp stocker with exhaust. my buddies integra put down 517whp and i couldnt tell a difference from any other fart can ***** out there at idle

LMSkyliner

iTrader: (1)

he's right yanno, a built car sounds exactly like those crappy stock cars with a fart can. The only way i can really tell them apart is listening for the turbo

fryer1979

My experiences with the high power tuners has been a very different tune to the exhaust. Most of what I have seen has an almost stock sound level at idle, (of course it is far more agressive in tone, and there is usually the lope of some cam and timing work). Even at higher RPMs there are tone differences. Just like we can usually tell if that Z28 next to you only has a Flowmaster muffler, or some serious work under the hood. A complete high end exhaust sounds much different than a replacement muffler, we all know that, there are tons of different sound clips on this site of different peoples exhaust. Of course there is nothing saying a guy can't add the typical f**t can to a built import, but if a Honda guy spent thousands of dollars building his custom engine, why would he put a POS APC muffler on it? Unless he just likes the sound, hey, some hot rodders like glass packs. Maybe it is just that I have always been very sharp on tone differences, that I can catch the changes. Hell, I have had to swap out long tube headers before just because their pitch drove me nuts. Maybe it is just me, and the few like me, but I can always tell the difference.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

you can really tella good import from a bad obviously from the looks, and mostly the exhaust, alot of people dont really think of that but you can hear a difference, hondas with a muffler they clamped on from checker have that bees in a can sound, a good setup on an import doesnt get so high on the Db scale that you wanna blow your ears off, its got a good tone to it and its subtle until they hit WOT as opposed to the honda example, where that WOT sound is constant.

It used to kill me when my friend would take his TII RX7 down to our local show, he was pushing like 340 horses and he had a corksport exhaust on it ( which is apparently illegal for street use) and he'd pull up, listen to the guys throw BS at him for the exhaust and sound etc and then take em for a race down the freeway. I only saw him lose once to an NSX. UInfortunately someone torched his car one night with a molotov cocktail, i miss that car something about the sound of the rotary motor through the exhaust was just really nice

Peoples perception of imports is totally skewed, they have that stupid waste of a car mentality against them but we have the "theyre gonna do something stupi because theyre driving an fbody" mentality against us, atleast where i live, i am the most responsible driver when im in my camaro but the cops follow me everywhere its ridiculous

Gary Berg

Hey guys go on youtube and look up Ken Block Gymkhana Practice Subaru Impreza STI!!! its sick!!!

jccaclimber

A good AWD setup should be able to lift the fronts. most of them aren't setup that way but last time I looked you average 3rd gen was slow too.

Also, if you're going to make silly question about the age of the 350, show me a motor that has been around as long as a 350 that's a domestic (other than the SBC of course).

xbox07

that was pretty awesome, its like that movie the transporter but on crack

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

how bout BBC?

Gary Berg

Basically!

rx7speed

also when talking of the age of a motor wouldn't that more of show how outdated the engine design is if it has been around that long while other venders are changing to a more updated platform?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

if anything that just shows the reliability simplicity and effectiveness of the motor. If its been around that long, and is working great then why change it? That to me is a indicator of a proven effective design.

But yes, there are alot of good things in new generations of the small block. Gen III stuff started the change and now its only getting better

fryer1979

I agree with the sbc being around so long because it was reliable (as they can be), cheap, and simple. Basically though, the factory pretty much tapped out the economical potential (all forms considered), and needed new platforms to build on. The LS block is amazing if you own one, or have read much about them beside sales brochures. The potential for this engine is huge, and some of the inherrant designs are way beyond that of the gen I blocks. I say it was about time, which is why I am looking to put an LS in my '79 Camaro.

emi_16

Seriously.
THeres a difference. R
Ricers= Look fast, all visual, but slow
Real Import= Super Sleeper.
I have a friend wit ha vtec b18 from an integra in a hatchback and he gutted the car and removed AC and PS now running high 13's not only that..the motor can rev past 9500.(stage 2 cams and bor'd over to 2.0l) thats with a daily driver that runs very well and gets good mileage.
Dont even get me started on the supra. seen those 6 cyl running stock auto trans running high 8's of course the block can handle well over 700hp.
DONT UNDERESTIMATE the REAL JDM USDM enthusiasts. or even VTEC. theyll make you **** your pants 5 times. all time import...Subaru. cheap reliable fast!

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

A stock auto trans handling high 8s?

BRIrocZ

iTrader: (1)

Never heard of a Supra doing that with stock auto tranny. I know there's a few going very low 8's with stock 6spds and rear ends though.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

i was flipping through a tuner magazine (just for kicks)

they were doing a build similar to what you would find in hot rod, but with imports of course.

10-15k later

the one car made 185 hp.

and they were proud

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

General rule of thumb....when a thread hasnt seen a post in more than 6 months....let it stay dead.

dylanz93

Haha...youve got a lot to learn, japanese engineering is very advanced, I have a nissan 240sx, with a 4cyl and with $500 of mod it can easily put out over 320hp, plus its much lighter than an iroc and handles surprisingly better..Oh ya, you say a stock Iroc can run 9's..More like 14's 13 at best...

dylanz93

Well said!!

blue birdy 87

For some reason some less intelegent people think soy sauce is good for fuel, i think thats why

el_muerte

How is it more affordable to make a four-banger put out 300 horses (or 500, or 800 for that matter) than a 350? You can buy a junkyard SBC, rebuild it, throw heads and cam on it, and make 400 horsepower for under two grand... you can't do that with a four-banger, even if you already have an engine in good condition.

camaropower88

There are some legit fast imports out there, but I mean c'mon, they sound ANNOYING. I don't care if your Honda runs 9's, there's nothing intimidating about a car that sounds like an angry hive of bees coming at you. Sure, our third gens are choked from the factory, but as previously stated a rebuilt 350 with a nice intake manifold, heads and cam to match, roller rockers and lifters and you can make some good power. Throw a turbo/supercharger on it and it will be nasty! I don't care who likes Honda's or whatever, what matters is that they are into cars as well and we all have a common goal....to go fast! It's just some of the import owners are really cocky and they have a shitty carbon fiber hood, stock b18 and every body panel is a different color with 20 dents in the body. And the typical wing and fart can etc etc. IMO I dont care if my 350 TPI is "slow" it sounds better than a fart can, i mean lets face it nothing sounds more intimidating and awesome as a worked/cammed 350 with longtubes. Some imports may have more horsepower, but my lug nuts have more torque than your import . Never understood what they try to prove anyway by putting so much time, effort, and $$ into such a small motor. They are pretty much worthless without nos or boost. But its whateva floats yo boat! Do what you like, but talk **** on a v8 and you better be able to back your **** up!

blue birdy 87

I totally agree. And our cars are classics so they naturally have the lower hand and older technology. No rice rockets are classics because by then they fall apart or get blown up from people over revving to get all that dual digit horsepower from the utterly small engine. I guarantee you take year to year, stock to stock and American muscle car would smoke a rice rocket any day

Guest

-Whats that sound?

--8 pieces of iron sreaming in VENGEANCE!

-HEAVY METAL THUNDER!

LsxMatt

iTrader: (4)

My friend i work with has an 87 2.5 twin turbo supra. running 20 psi with about 400hp. Things a ****in monster

formula90fan

Well ima V8 believer(love my 305). I dont mind any car doing real mods like FULL exhaust (not fart cans) Internal engine parts and forced induction. But some of the sh*t people to to their old Hondas is stupid. I saw one guy that drove around with no hood under the reasoning it would help cool his engine and swore the weight loss gained him 20 hp, I could have slapped him. Their is nothing like seeing a ***** on the line and destroying him at the green light because the stupid "fast" mods they do don't actually do anything.

DD9TransAmGTA

iTrader: (1)

Ricers should get a real car like a 80's 300zx, thats a sports car not a 4 door civic........

LsxMatt

iTrader: (4)

Another guy i go to school with has an early 90's hatchback civic. He also drives around with no hood, and actually got a ticket for it. But the reason he doesnt have a hood is because the supercharger sticks up too high, so a hood wont fit. Hes having a hood fabricated for it.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Man, who bumped this one back from the dead?

These days, making fun of "imports" is just plain ignorance. I understand if some people just don't like imports because it's not your style, but don't come out and say they are ALL slow and ALL POS's. A freind of mine has a 93 nissan 240SX with a supra 2JZ single turbo engine in it. I can GUARRANTEE it will take 98% of the cars on this board. And it still gets 24 mpg.

kmcn47

i disagree, i love to make fun of ricers, however tuners on the other hand i can respect, but not some guy in his backyard garage with a laptop, tuners like RUF, or Lingenfelter, or Callaway, these guys i respect, they take performance vehicles and "refine" there performance, cossworth is another one with the scooby they built, and the 90s escorts that were dominant in touring car racing, but honestly if you buy an inport, and a domestic (f-body) for around the same money, and put the same amount of money into them, well sorry to say it boys and girls but that f bodys gonna be faster everytime, you may have heard "theres no replacement for displacement" well there is and its a "revolution" (meaning you have less cylinders, so have more rpm) unfortunately this will have a negative effect on engine lifespan so no offense to anyone, whatever floats your boat but that sbc, lookin alot better to me than putting serious bucks into a car noone is gonna think is fast by how it looks, and wont be worth much before or after all that tuning, and its not like there anymore cook than a classic american muscle car, i mean old imports aren't going for big bucks, and in american youth, i see the "rice" "tuner" scene being a fad that i hope we all grow out of soon

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

3rd gens still aren't going for big bucks either. I'm sorry to say but the "tuner scene" will not be dissapearing anytime soon. If anything it will keep getting bigger. Look at all the high performance jap cars coming out. Look at the ratio of tuner cars to domestics. Some say it was the fast and furious that brought on the tuner stage....but has it dropped off at all since what, like 10 years ago when the movie came out? Nope...it's only grown. And I love the classic statement of "the V8 will always be quicker with the same money." There is actually a replacement for displacement these days...it's called a turbocharger. You give me $4K dollars to buy a car AND mod it and I can guarantee I can make a honda faster than a 3rd gen for the same cash.

midias

Probably because a bunch of hondas and toyotas are fast. I have watched a factory 6speed manual accord pull a 14 flat in the 1/4 on a nice cool night. Not blazing fast but I bet it would take a lot of people on the board down. I have also watched a bunch of supras pull 10s and still have good street manners.

I personally have been reamed by a 12 second 1990 civic in my TA. Nothing wrong with tuning a car you like. I am not sure why people get so mad at others making a car not designed to be fast into a fast car. I thought that is what the original hot rod was about. Do the same people insult the V6 turbo guys on this board? The V6 is not a fast car but people work them over into something a bit more special. Do the same people insult Harley owners for loud pipes and camming their motors? Harleys will never keep up with an import sport bike but people want to make them faster or at least louder. Is that the same thing as being a *****?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

That's the epitome of Rice, looks over performance.

Exactly...
The SBC guys that spout out that "bigger is better" when ragging on 4 and 6 cylinder enthusiasts, conveniently forget about the BBC guys.

I can't believe I'm going to agree with project89...
I have watched reel to reel video that my Grandfather shot back in the 50's and 60's at a local drag strip he helped start and run. Many of those cars had straight 6s in them. Much of the ingenuity that went into those cars would put today's "Hot Rodders" to shame. Most of what was done back then was true home brewed, "lets try this and see what happens" type R&D, not like today, where you open a catalog and order a bunch of parts from the big Hi-Po parts seller.

HAHA, yeah I've been saying that for many years. Just because something has been made over a long period does not automatically mean that it is good. It's a design that people don't want to get away from, or improve up on.
You can see evolution in many import engine designs. Look at the Nissan I6 progression. The L-series that was introduced in (I believe) the late '60s is basically the father of the RB series used up to 2002 (according to the quick search of info I could find). That's not far off in total years of production from the SBC, but does include a couple different variants, showing re-design and progression through the years.
In the case of the SBC, it took nearly 40 years before there was a significant re-design (Early '90s LT1), that included a dry intake and reverse flow cooling.

---------------------------

Now I was raised around SBCs and "North American Hot Rods," Muscle cars, and the like, but my toy is an import. Not because I think it's better, or cooler, or faster than anything North American, but because it has the style I wanted, and met many of the criteria I had laid out when I was looking for a toy. Some of those being, light weight, RWD, easy to modify, something that I could enjoy driving, meaning comfortable and pre-1988, since then it is exempt from e-tests around here every 2 years. The choices came down to A mid '80s RX-7, Datsun 510, H-body, leaned towards the late '70's Sunbird, and a Datsun 240Z. I further shortened down that list to the two Datsuns, after discovering just how difficult it was to find an H-body that wasn't completely rotten, how expensive RX-7s were at the time, and how easy it was to find 510s and 240s for sale, for decent money. My girlfriend helped make the decision of the 240Z, since she preferred the looks of it over the 510, which I agree with.

The funny thing is, ever since buying this car, I realize that everyone either, owned one, had a friend or relative that owned one, or wanted to own one themselves. I go to local cruise nights, where most of the cars and enthusiasts either own domestic classic and muscle cars, or enjoy looking at them. I don't build my car for anyone else to enjoy, I build it for me, and what I want to see, and what I want it to do. I want to go fast in a straight line and around the corner, which my car does pretty well, though it does need some refinement to get it where I want it.

I probably have less than 7K into it, including buying, shipping it over 2000 miles and importing the car (from the US into Canada), but with some of the suspension changes I've made lately, it might have gone over that. I have ran a high 13 with it so far, with plenty left in it, I wasn't launching it hard, trying to save the tranny since I knew it had a shift fork issue, and had a lapping day two days later, which I didn't make it to anyway (), so I'm sure if I can get my 60' times down from the slow 2.3 to a sub 2 second range, then it should be quite the quite car. As it is, I get quite a bit of respect from many of the "domestic" guys. I also pretty much daily drive it. My Dakota has been sitting for a week straight, since I was able to get the new shift fork into the tranny. The same is usually anytime during the summer, when I'm not trying to change something on the Datsun. It also gets WAY better milage than my Dakota.

On the sound thing, while I do prefer the sound of a beefed up V8 to even my turbo I6, that is still not nearly enough for me to give up my higher HP per unit of displacement, better economy, and being different factor. Go before Show.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

is your datsun turbocharged. i was going to say ,you would never hit 13's with a 6 cylinder datsun unless you did the v8 swap.

kmcn47

to answer one question, yepp the v8 guys usually go trolling in the 6 forum

kmcn47

an equal period (82-92) similarly priced honda? kinda doubt it on that one bud

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

You'd be surprised. Those babys are light. Even an all motor 6 I would think could hit 13's with some work into it. But hey, a turbo is always cooler in my book lol.

midias

I have sees some really sick turbo supra powered datsuns. I love those cars always a surprise could be a 10 second car could be 15

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

My Datsun is turbocharged, but only because I prefer the advantages of turbocharging over built up N/A, and was cheaper than building the engine. I also plan on swapping out the Nissan engine for something else, so I didn't want to sink a bunch of money into internals of an engine I didn't plan to keep.

There have been a few 13 second N/A 6 cylinder Datsuns, I believe quicker as well.

Don't doubt what you don't understand.

stealthroc89

The import thing is here to stay as long as there are cars to modify. I'd love to get my hands on another Eclipse GSX, there's a reason on of the muscle car mags listed it as one of the top 5 imports to watch out for. The engine can handle 500+hp and a simple free mod can get it to run rock bottom 14's.
Honestly, we all need to get along because little by little our hobby is being taken away with laws and regulations, sure some of them are good for the environment, but they affect us all, sometimes in a bad way.
I have rode in a 240sx with a non turbo SR20DE engine and I thought it would take my Iroc, they do give a false sense of speed and I think thats where they get their arrogance. My Fiero feels fast too, but I know my place when I'm in it! If you know your car is faster why would you let some punk get to you in the 1st place? He's doing it just to get to you and if you let him, then he's already won, you have to pick and choose your battles, just remember, it's the quiet ones you have to look out for. There are "ricers" in every groupe of cars, they just go by different names, I'm sure tuners are just as sick of them as we are, they give their cars a bad name, but theres nothing anyone can do about it. I believe "ricers" do love their cars, but not in the same way an entusiast does because at the end of the day it's just transportation to them, just a little personalized.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

There have been a few 13 second N/A 6 cylinder Datsuns, I believe quicker as well.

Don't doubt what you don't understand.[/QUOTE]

I don't think so man. I owned a turbocharged 280zx. I even ran increased boost back in the day when it was unheard of. Even the turbo would not touch a 13. They ran a 15.6 stock. Very respectable for the the time. Very fast too btw. Don't let technology throw you off. 15.6 is not slow. The straight six engine z was a good 2 seconds behind the turbo model 0-60 etc. So, yes they are light. About 2950 lbs, but no way in the world they would ever come close to a 13 naturally aspirated.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Don't doubt what I don't understand? Six Shooter. I used to be a Big import guy. Used to love em. LOL. I was into the whole import scene before it became part of the "hip hop" hipster generation. When i did it , no one modified an import. It just wasn't done. I am talking early to mid 90's. It was all Mustang and Camaro wars back then. LOL. I have also owned several Nissan Z cars and my family has been in Z clubs. So, don't assume that someone does not understand something that you are implying.Also , while the Nissan Z car is a nice vehicle. They are small and the zx models have struts in the rear that almost bottom out upon acceleration,hence giving one a false sense of speed. The car "feels" faster than it really is.