I was doing some thinking lately about how the level of street car performance has changed in the last 15 years or so. Way back when, a new car that ran 15.0 was a big deal, the 13 second old-school musclecars were thought to be untouchable forever (in terms of 1/4 mile performance).

Today, you can buy a Viper that runs 12.0 or a Z06 Vette that runs 12.5, or even a few exotics that run in the 12's. Great if you want new, but I wouldn't spend $75k on a 12 second car, but I built one for $10k, as did a lot of others on this board.

My question is: That do you consider the limit of street driven cars performance given 2002 technology and parts availability.


Quarter Mile:

11 and 10 second small blocks are quite attainable with big CI and/or supercharging/NOS.

I think a 9.0 150mph+ SBC could be made to live everyday on the street, whether it be a 420 with nitrous or a 383 twin turbo.


Top Speed:

What is possible?
200mph with a 500hp 383/406/420: not a problem
225mph with a 675hp motor, not too hard
250mph with a 900hp motor, start welding some turbo plumbing
275mph with a 1250hp motor, get John Meaney to build you one
300mph - doorslammer record (with a third gen) possible with the right people, parts, and prayers?

I definitely think 200 and 225mph are attainable, with 250 probably being the limit of driveability. The Sledgehammer Vette ran a twin turbo 355 to 254mph in 1989 with 900hp. The Vette in PHR with 1400hp would certainly go 275mph with the right gears and aero parts (and a big insurance policy). A street twin turbo with off the shelf parts and some fabrication could put out 900-1000hp and be streetable and easily touch 250.

 

I think 175 is insane, nevermind anything over 200, but I know alot of 9sec street cars, alot being a half dozen or so. I'm more of a drag racer, then a top speed guy.

 

This is a real give and take type situation...the more you give to top speed, the more you're taking from 1/4 mile performance and vice versa.

 

Nic,

I'm not saying that, you can certainly have both if you do it right:

Gearing a 500hp car for the 1/4 may give you 11.0, but gearing it for top end may yield a 11.5 car that can do 200mph.

I want to know what everyone thinks of both 1/4 mile and top speed independently - that is why you can pick 2 on the poll.

 

Since I've never been in a car that runs quicker than 12's, I'm going to take a guess here. I'd think that low-mid 11's w/ an N/A motor would be about the limit while keeping decent streetability (considering the size of cam, gears, and stall speed needed). Add a big shot of nitrous (150-250) or a lot of boost from a turbo or supercharger and I'd think high 9's would be do-able while retaining ok steetability. Of course this would be EFI to run smooth at idle and at low rpm's and the shortblock and drivetrain would have to be bulletproof=$$$. To run that fast with everyday streetability would cost mega dollars.

As far as top end, I'll guess 220 MPH with the right gearing and aerodynamics.

Big shots of nitrous or electronically adjustable turbos would be the best, b/c you don't always have the massive amounts of power and can have something somewhat civil when just cruising.

 

My line on top speed has been "how many Illinois roads are safe at that speed?" I have a limiter at 115 and on darn near every road around here other than interstates thats good enough. I know a lot of guys who've run 140 or more on some of our backroads, and I was doing 120 in my freinds Celica friday night. But still, getting past 150, theres just too many things that can happen unless your on a closed course. Its just too dangerous.

Now stoplight to stoplight runs... thats a whole nother story
Too bad the cops around here are crazy... We saw one at 2/3 intersections we stoppped at friday. Too bad too otherwise we'dve hada go with a GST eclipse (Ok some people are gonna think rice vs rice but i don't car, that celica GTS impressed me)

 

Interesting poll!! My next project will hopefully be a street legal beast. I was thinking more along the lines of top speed because I want my car to own the streets, I'm not concerned with 1/4 mile times. I'm building my project with one type of challenger in mind: 94+ Supra twinturbo highly modified in a street race scenario.

My Project:

90-92 IROC/Z28 w/ 700r and L98
96+ LT1 rebuilt to low compression (8.5:1)
Custom intercooled single T76 turbo setup
Custom fuel system mapped for 2 bar
Built T56 w/ hi po parts
Carbon Fiber driveshaft
Ford 9" rear w/ 4.11's
Full suspension work (Coilovers)
12-13" rotors all around
18x9 front 18x10 back on 40 series

and a whole bunch of other stuff (yes including the K1 gen 1 kit inside and out) but thats the basic idea. I hope it all works out. Then I plan to swap the stock L98, 700r, and drivetrain from the Camaro into an older gen (pre 94) regular cab S10 truck and have some fun down @ the track running 1/4 mi.

 

What my top speed is doesn't matter to me. Its how fast I can get to it that does, whatever it might be.

1/4 mile times are obviously the most important. Although 0-60 is too, especially for street races. I think a car that runs 12.0-12.2 is 1 great street car. A car that is in 11's, any 11's, low, mid, high, is even better. The faster the better, 10's, 9's whatever, but I think a 12.0 sec. or so street car is what I would say is impressive. The thing though is to do that stuff and be able to keep the car streetable or a daily driver.

 

Way back when there were cars that could run 10's in the 1/4. Example 1965 hemi belvedere. Want 180 mph how about a hemi plymouth superbird. The muscle cars you speak of I would imagine are the sixties cars. A bone stock 1965 gto with regular street compound 70 series tires could run 14.0 taking off part throttle until rolling good then flooring it and get 18 mpg on the highway. A 396 chevelle with a mild cam headers and some slicks would run low 12's and still very streetable and these weren't even the top dogs. In the seventies you could pick up a decent running car for $1000-3000. Oh never mind you said 15 years ago that was 1987 not the seventies. You are probably talking about 77 camaros and so on when you are talking about how much faster cars are nowadays. My 74 year old dad says he rode in a 62 ford with a 406 that did 90 in first gear. Well in 1987 you could have got a turbo buick that would smoke just about anything coming off the showroom floor right now. We have made some progress but not as much as some people think. One of these new 180 horse cavaliers is plenty for the street anyway. I'll leave the 10 second runs for the track with a racecar.

 

Personally I like to drive a car with ***** EVERY day. Cavaliers suck.
As for the 10 second cars, I know two guys with stroked LT1 Z28s that run low 10s on the bottle, high 10s or low 11s off the bottle, have full interiors, stereo, a/c, etc, get about 25 mpg, and are daily driven. Still want to leave the 10 second car at home?

 

Gio,

In regards to your post I have thought about a few things:

Sure there were 10 second cars back then, but the average car was not any faster than today (I'm talking a regular Pontiac in 1967 vs. 2002), although they did have more potential to be fast becuase almost all had V8 motors.

I would not want to go 180mph in a Hemi Superbird, period. I don't care how fast they ran in NASCAR way back when, they were sloppy handlers, had bad brakes and were like trying to drive a 30ft boat, no thanks.

I'm not sure about the GTO, but no way a 396 Chevelle ran 12.0 with the mods you mention. The 454 cars only ran low 13's out of the factory and could run low 12's maybe with those mods. Considering how bad the factory cams were then, an aftermarket one would probably make it slower, especially since there was no head porting then.

I agree that '77 Camaros were sleds, LOL.

I remember the 1987 turbo buicks when new, a typical one would run 14.2-14.4, which wasn't too bad. Occasionaly a freak car would run 14.0 or 13.8. Remember that in 1987 there were no aftermarket parts for turbo cars, it took a few years before really fast ones started appearing (I'm talking 11's or better). Back then a stripped 5 speed LX Stang with a pro driver could only run 14.3 or so, not bad for then, not so great today. A 1987 350 IROC was a 15.0 car on average.

Today we have 12.4 Z06 Vettes that could run with the best of the street big blocks. We have 385hp Mustang Cobras that run with the best of their ancestors. We have 400hp M5 BMWs that could run with the musclecars of yesteryear. We have Vipers that run 12.0 and even faster modified. Camaros in 2002 are faster than the fastest ones from the 1960's. Of course these cars are everyday rides except in snow. I think we made some decent progress.

 

I am sure about the 67 chevelle because my best friend owned it I rode in it, he raced it at the track and drove on the street. There was better gas back then and the mileage wasn't nearly as good as a new camaro cruising down the highway. There was rarely air conditioning in any performance cars. I will agree the standard car running down the road today is alot quicker than the standard car back in the 60, 70, or 80's. They are also smaller and more aerodynamic so of course they should be quicker and get better mileage. As far as going 180 on the street in a superbird the only safe place to do it would be like a straight stretch of road in the desert such as I-80 in Nevada and the handling wouldn't matter because I would not be turning and the brakes were probably better than you think but I wouldn't be planning on making any quick stops from that speed anyway. The fastest I ever drove was 140 on hwy 58 in California in a 65 GTO in the desert and 130 on a motorcycle on the stretch in Nevada. 125 is the fastest I ever drove here in Illinois and that was 25 years ago. Haven't been over 105 in the last 20 years on the street. And yes I will still take the Z24 over a camaro for the street, cost less and runs good enough, my pride isn't hurt if someone passes me. I know I can ride a bicycle past most of them and that is my engine, not my cars. And if they want to drag race lets go to the dragstrip and do some bracket racing, again the driver will matter, not just the car.