Here's the story. I want to buy an 85 Z28. It's got a 5 speed, and a 355ci under the hood. the 355 was put in around Oct. 2000.
Now heres the bad part. The engine doesnt have any of the emission crap on it. It's also missing the Cats. Now if i pick up this car, I can't pass the e-test. Hot Rod Status is confusing as hell. I work for a GM dealership and our e-test guys aren't up to par.
Car is certified and all. Just need to get the e-test. I also can't get a conditional pass, since the vehicle will be transfered to my name. I plan on putting on the cats on again. But the egr, and all the other crap isn't worth my time. 3" straight pipes run from the headers. It does have the mufflers on it. I want this car, it's the car I've been dreaming about for many years. I need to know of a shop that will pass me. Guys help. Or I mite need to invest in a firearm and take it to the government. I already know the car won't pass. Hod Rod Status is my only hope.
I need to find out this properly. What do I do. Any and all help would be appreciated.
Shops that are easy for me to get away with or even someone to write me up the e-test. (We've all thought about it)
Please PM if you know of a shop or anyting.
Please guys. I'm going nutz here
Thanx.

 

Can you get it through the visual inspection if you put converters on it?

 

He won't pass the visual inspection for the engine. They will see all the smog equipment missing. Trust me, I've tried. I found a sweet yellow iroc with 28,000 kms on the body, a brand new 355 block, a roll-cage, etc. etc. and it was missing the smog equipment and the cats... couldn't buy it cuz of that.

 

i think i can get it through the visual.
i'm pulling out all my contacts in shops.

 

I'm pretty sure that Hot Rod status gets you out of the visual test. They only checked for a working gas cap on my 86 TA when it was tested as a hot rod.

If you swap to a conventional exhaust setup, I'm sure someone would test you.

 

When I tried to get my other camaro tested they said it doesn't matter that the engine was swapped, if the original car came with smog equipment, then this car needs smog equipment as well.

 

cuz all the TPI motors require smog equipment.

carburated ones obviously don't.

 

Carbed engines have just as many emmisions widgets as EFI engines do. A guy I know got through the visual with nothing more than converters. You could plainly see the capped AIR ports in the manifolds and everything. It all depends on how much the inspector is willing to "work" with you. I'm sending you a PM with some tips on passing the e-test.

 

In order to qualify as a "Hot Rod", the car must have a motor that wasn't origionaly available as an installed option for that year.
So a "327" or a "307" or a "400 sb" or any big block would
qualify in a 3rd Gen. Check the block casting # to see if it is 010.
This block was not used after 1980 but was used on late 327's.
It's up to you to convince Drive Clean that your motor is a legal
swap. A reciept and documentation (block #'s, donor car info - eg yr, make, model, vin).
Do not ask the Drive Clean test techician to make a determination or judgement call. They operate under a "0 tolerance policy". This is not nessessary either.
Just have the operator contact Drive Clean with your Swap
info and documentation and they will make the "Hot Rod Status"
determination. And approve your car for the test under hot rod standards.
After that, the smog equipment is a different issue.
Technicly you still need it for road side inspection (police or MTO)
Especially the cats. You can be fined if you're found to be operating a car without smog equipment in Ontario.

A 355 sb is not a legal swap motor, so don't say that you have one. Any 350 block based motor is not a legal swap motor.
A "327" block based motor is. If you have a bunch if disconnected
or disabled smog equipment under the hood, this is not a "swap"
but a "tampered car". The under-hood should have the appearance of a pre-smog era motor. If your motor "swap"
is nicely done and the car is in good operating condition with full exhaust to the back of the car, (perferably with cats) you shouldn't have a problem. I didn't.....

 

Actually, the 355 would be a legal swap for his 85, since only 305's were available that year. Good point about the 327cid engines though, that should help some of the folks through.

 

My 87Iroc with a 355,5 speed,750edelbrock no egr,no air pump and a converter that had seen better days failed its drive clean test miserably and it was being tested under 1980 standards!I took the car to another place for a retest,told them the situation and they agreed to see what they could do,because at this point I could get a conditional pass if I spend a certain amount of money.So anyways they called me and told me to come and pick up my car,IT PASSED WITH FLYING COLORS!!I asked the guy what did u have to do to it to get it to pass like that.He said when it got the part it needed the levels came down,but he was very ambigous about it.He charged me $110 dollars,I think they put alcohol or something in the tank to get it to pass.There was almost no gas in the tank when I picked it up,There was a quarter tank in it when I dropped it off.Any one out there try the alcohol trick?

 

Gas Line Antifreeze
The first time my winter beater had to be E-tested my mechanic had to drive it over to be tested 3 times. It finally passed. He told me he'd poured lots of gasline antifreeze on top of the 1/4 tank of Sunoco Gold in there. I had to stand on the pedal when leaving.. It worked anyways. Apparently GLAF burns clean. Alcohol may have the same effect.
I later had to replace the Cat. and it passed easy the next time.
For all cars: fresh oil, filters, and a hot engine help too.

My .02$

Ron

 

Rather than spending $50 on GLAF, you may want to try Isopropyl alcohol. Same stuff, cheaper.

 

Coleman Camping fuel is even cheaper..lol

Daz

 

What is in it?

 

Why don't you just slip the guy in your shop some cash and tell him to do what he has to do to make her pass? I have an inspecter license here in RI and if I wanted to I could make any car pass.

 

YOU WORK FOR A GM DEALER??????

So what's the problem? If you're friends at work won't help you out- what are they good for, exactly?

If you want to be 'legitimate' go to your emissions-test guy/guys and tell them to cut the crap and test the car 'as-is' (to the model year or 1980 standards depending on which you meet the criteria for). If engine is is good shape- you may very well pass as-is. Just like a certification- once the car leaves the shop- mechanics (or emissions testers) have no idea what was added or removed. Tell them to cut the crap and use their heads for something useful. They already know all this (unless they're pretty thick or something).

In fact- why not take a prospective vehicle you want to buy and bring it to work and run the test before purchase? If it passes with no modifications- buy it and then take it somewhere else to have the e-test done 'officially' with less **** types? The e-test machine/system allows for diagnostic tests and such that don't get fed back to the MOE/MOTC computers)- so you could run 5 or 50 e-tests- just don't print out the results (this costs the money).

Bottom line: Anyone who gets hung up on the 'visual' bit has a problem- they are not even attempting to run the emissions test in the 'spirit' it is supposedly intended- i.e. make sure cars are not polluting excessively- they are playing 'brainwashed bureaucrat' or 'ripoff mechanic' with you. If a car passes with NO emissions devices- what, precisely, is the problem? You need a re-test every 2 years, so the argument that having no emissions control devices and good emissions today is no guarantee the emissions will be good tomorrow- is crap because this same argument applies to every vehicle tested- all emissions devices intact or otherwise.

I bet you can find any number of shops that are going with the 'spirit' of the Driveclean program, not the bureaucratic lettering of it- and as such will not give a damn one way or the other about a 'visual' component- only what actually comes out the tailpipe(s).

 

I have read in magazines for years about emissions testing in California (count your blessings guys..) and in other states like Colorado and they at one time had the same beef. If we can make a 5000 hp blown hemi on nitromethane run clean, why shouldn't we be allowed to run it just because it [eg.] doesn't have an egr? I for one plan on a project that will run clean as a whistle as a byproduct of its design, but I am forced into getting hot rod status just because of the visual inspection ! I plan on running modified propane carbs feeding different types of "gas" (hydrogen/oxygen/fuel vapours/propane when under boost) into a turbo charged BBC. The goal is 30 mpg in a big car and 700 RWHP. Those of you who have looked into gas burning vehicles know how clean they run, the hydrogen booster is there stricly for economy, but that fuel is basicly zero emmisions But by the letter of law according to O.D.C. this vehicle will fail even if no measureable toxins exited the tailpipe ... STUPID if you ask me, we need a big outfit like S.E.M.A. up here in Canada to battle Ottawa

 

In all honesty guys, the "cat" requirement is a PITA, but Dynomax has a decent cat for $120.00CDN, $50.00 to install it. I now drive a V8 "hot rod" mini van. The shop's in Newmarket, if you'd like the contact info, PM me. In the spring when I was going through my "E" fiasco, I took my 'stro there. The iron parked out front for service was like a car show, BB Chevelle's, a BB CJ 'stang, stock, stock, stock 68 383 Road Runner, it was a car show for me! Good, HONEST guy owns the place, he knows what he's doing, and is fare. I do all my own work, but don't mind someone who knows what they're doing, and not REAM ME, work on my ride.

 

Why does changing the oil before an emissions test help? If you're burning enough oil to be a consideration, does it really matter if the oil is dirty or clean? My lil Jimmy eventaully passed his test after a new cat (it didn't have one at all) and a new O2 sensor, and all I did was get the cat welded in. No fresh oil, no crap in the tank, and the 4.3L has the same valve seals issue (slight oil drip into the cylinders when cold) as it's small block cousins. Just wondering.

 

Your oil gets fuel soaked from short trip city driving especially in the winter when fuel doesn't want to vapourize. This fuel in the crankcase oil then vapourizes when your motor warms up and goes into the intake manifold through the PCV, enrichening the mixture and creating exess unburned HCo numbers.

 

Hello My Name is Darren and I'm a new member here.
This is my first post.
Hello all I'm in Mississauga with a white 87 Iroc Auto.

Anyways to get around Drive Clean, what you need to do is...

Go to the MTO and change your address to somewhere up north, and out of the range of drive clean testing, then wait a day or so and go to different MTO (so you don't see the same people) and renew or change over the ownership whatever it is you need to do still. And give them the safety, and they won't ask for an E-test, since you live outside the testing area. After thats done you wait a day or a week or so, then go to different MTO or one of those Kiosk machines at a mall or something and change back your address to your current one.

DONE!

Now, obviously a drawback I guess is that you must know a legitamite address (in case they ever check it). So hopefully you or someone you know has a cottage somewhere with an address you can use, or family members somewhere out of the range.

Now to be 100% honest I have not used this myself simply because I only heard about it about two weeks ago and I won't need to use it until March when my truck comes due for renewal.
Cause I know it won't pass the test.

And as far as I can tell theres really nothing to much to worry about, its not illegal at all from what I know.

And lets say worst case scenario they were to find you out somehow and investigated it, you could simply say I was planning on moving but at the last minute the deal fell through and I've decided to stay.

I think you even have like 6 weeks to change over your address so technically you could change it over to the northern address and leave it for 6 weeks then change back long after the deal is done just to make it look more natural...

I may be missing something but I personally think it would work, can anyone figure out why it won't.

I hope it helps you get by the E-test garbage.....good luck man!

Darren in Mississauga

 

Ah, but shouldn't the ECM read a rich mixture (O2 sensor) and lean it out accordingly? I don't mean to argue, but it does seem more like a myth than anything else.

This reminds me actually, Jimmy really could use an oil change...

 

Responses to 2 above posts:

#1) Getting a northern Ontario address and being able to retrieve the mail costs money/effort too (i.e. even if it's a "general delivery" address- you have to be able to access it at least once- i.e. when they mail out your new drivers license- you can't wait in line and receive it 'on the spot' anymore). #2- if your insurance company catches you habitually driving in, say, the GTA with a northern Ontario address (i.e. in the event of an accident)- they will at the very least argue your claim- if not outright refuse to cover it and you'll end up trying to take them to court. #3) How much longer will northern addresses be good for this purpose? The DC program expands further every 2 years until it eventually covers the entire province.

#2) An O2 sensor checks for exactly that- oxygen- NOT unburnt hydrocarbons. If the O2 sensor doesn't sense enough oxygen- it will lean the mixture, yes, but seeing as how we're talking about leaked HC's in a low-volatility substance (engine oil, not gasoline)- once the O2 level is appropriate for what SHOULD be an optimal 14.7:1 A/F mix- engine may not be able to run- ECM can't have this so it will then add fuel, kick out an error code and probably stay in open-loop mode all the time.

Also- if your vehicle is not completely fuel injected, but only carb'd (non- CCC) your point is not applicable, and if it is a CCC carb/ignition setup, ECM controls ignition timing and a very small amount of fuel mixture at idle only- it is only a 'closed loop' system in respect to ignition timing- not actual fuel metering.

Actually- I think part of the idea in changing the oil before an emissions test is also to help minimize frictional losses (i.e. a slight bit of extra fuel won't be required to keep engine at desired RPM) and so that microscopic cylinder 'wash'- i.e. carbon scrapings- won't register as CO if burnt again in the combustion process.

 

First off with regards to having to pick up your new licence at your new address:

Well I guess having to pick up your new card would be a hastle but still technically it should be possible. After all if Joe really really wants the car, sometimes that need or desire can be extremely great, then maybe a drive up north to get your new card would be the price of owning the car of your dreams. I mean what would the cost be to put back on all the emissions crap such as egr, air pump and all that stuff back on the car. And what we be the cost of gas to the cottage and back.

If I really wanted the car then I would be prepared to deal with that. After all I never said it was a free way to get it done, but a way to get it done nonetheless.


Now as far as your second point goes with insurance. I think as with your licence you have at least a weeks grace period (up to 6 with the licence I think) with changing over your address. And if its really an issue than change your home address with your insurance company as well for a few weeks. But I wouldn't really worry about it that much because they can't deny your claim because you moved. Your insurance is good wherever you may happen to unfourtunately get in a collision. And I don't believe theres any rule stating that you have to live locally to your insurance company. I know a guy who lives north of huntsville and has his insurance in Hamilton.
So I think you could get around that as well.

And with regards to Drive clean expanding to eventually cover all of Ontario.
First it will only be another 2 1/2 or 3 years before the car hes buying will be emissions exempt.
The other thing is that I know drive clean is expanding but its going to get to a certain point in the north and stop. Maybe around Barrie or a little futher. The reason for that well first there is substantially less population per km in the north. So in turn theres lees reason to worry about pollution. But the more important thing is that there are alot of people who simply would not have the money to get their cars passable, not only that but there are not very many small garages and shops even most dealerships up there that could afford the high priced $100,000 equipment for drive clean testing. So if only the occasional huge automotive repair facility could do drive clean testing then some people like the one in remote places like Moosonee Ontario would have to drive 1000kms for a test. I don't think that would happen. What if they failed and had to come back for a retest?
It would only be at least 4000kms of driving for the whole round trip. Their 1984 Dodge pickup with a 225 ci slant six motor wouldn't make the drive.

 

Find a place to sell you an e-test , hamilton is full of those guys.

 

As I understand it, basically the oxygen sensor is responsible for the detection of a lean/rich mixture. If a rich mixute is detected it'll tell the ECM to lean it out. If too much fuel is going through the cylinders via either the injectors or this supposed fuel-saturated oil, the ECM should still compensate. Going by your theory an ECM should spit out an error code and the engine should run awful whenever you're late for an oil change, since the oil would be fuel-soaked. However, I am admittedly just a rookie.

Well neither the GTA nor the Jimmy I was thinking about are carbed. TPI and TBI, respectively.

Now that would make more sense. The effect would probably be minimal but I guess on a borderline engine every little bit would help. Considering how close lil Jimmy was to one of his limits when he eventually passed, I guess an oil change next time couldn't hurt.

 

My example of spitting out an error code and running in open lool all the time was an extreme example- the main point to remember is that an O2 sensors senses for O2 content- not HC content. HC content (to the ECM) is a 'derivative' of 02 content and might be estimated based on ECM's 'fuel map' and a stable gasoline mix (i.e. the exact same gasoline all the time run through the system)-any leakage of HCs from engine oil could lead the sensor to believe there is not enough 02 entering intake or too much fuel is entering- so it lowers fuel input (i.e. leans it out)- which would tend to raise NOX readings. Keep in mind that the addition of extra elements (i.e. HCs) does not necessarily raise the HC level coming out the exhaust- but affects the burn characteristics and what the ECM "thinks" is going on- which in turn can affect other properties (i.e. NOX). This whole ECM-controlled fuel/ignition system is a balancing act. If someone was an expert chip reprogrammer- I'm betting they could program a chip solely for the purpose of emissions testing on a particular setup (car would run like crap but would pass emissions) and another for 'normal' operation.

 

I dunno, I still don't buy it. The whole idea of fuel-soaked oil contaminating the intake charge and poisoning the exhaust and increasing emisssions really seems rather farfetched, doesn't it? Which quick-lube place came up with that idea? The idea about improving effeciency due to lower frictional losses seems far more believable and realistic.

Ah well, since I'm not exactly helping Camaro_Joe I'll probably leave it right there.