After our last discussion on cams & heads (instead of just heads) I have been shopping around for a combo that will work for the LB9 with 305 S/R Torquer heads. Sofar this cam from Comp seems to get me closest to maximum intake duration my stock chip can live with -- yet is very close to .500 lift which is where most of the S/R measure for max flow.

COMP Cams Part # CCA-212-218-12

Duration:
intake @ .050 = 212 exhaust @ .050 = 218

Lift
intake @ 1.5 = .488 intake @ 1.6 = .521
exhaust @ 1.5 = .495 exhaust @ 1.6 = .528

LSA = 112

With AFPR, S/R Heads and headers do you think this cam will get me another 40-50hp ? Oh yeah I forgot I am shopping for some 3.73s also -- just to make it more fun.

adious,
RP.

 

Hey Richard,

Looks like a pretty good combo to me. You should hit your goal with that setup.

 

Key Kevin you think ?

I am trying to get this all done for under $2k CDN. The cam, heads and headers are about $2000 tax in unless I can find used stuff it is going to be about $40 per HP.

Back in the early 90s I used to know a shop in Vancouver that would re-grind your roller to more aggressive profile is that still done ? Any shops around here do that ? A re-grind was about $100 a new cam from Comp Cams is about $500 CDN. Ouch.

I've been watching eBay but am a little nervous about doing a heart transplant with a used cam...

adious,
RP.

 

$2k sounds about right. I know you can get S/R Torquers from Brant Performance for around $900 + tax, but you'll need to tack on another $100 or so for springs.

Not sure about re-grinds. You might be able to find someone with a new ZZ3 or ZZ4 cam that they are selling. You might be able to find a deal there. I think the specs are a little lower for the ZZ cams then the one you have listed, but they should still get you pretty close, if not over 300hp with those heads.

 

ZZ3 cam has more lift but less duration(more power down low..)I like the ZZ3 better though..albeit cheaper too..I dunno about S/R torquers though..but it will work..I wouldnt expect anything more than 300Hp from this combo if your staying with your chip though..The chip will tolerate it but not optimal.

S/R =Stock replacements ..with bigger valves,better runner shape and flow

FYI ZZ3 engines have the almost the same cam(bigger),even better flowing heads and it only makes less than 340HP with 50 more cid 308 HP with emissions..

Daz

 

Just thought of another option, there is a guy on thirdgen, who claims to be able to get around 225cfm (intake) out of a ported 416 casting 305 head. 225cfm is pretty close to Vortec's as far as flow goes. The guy's nic is f-bird/88 or f-bird 88 or something like that. He lives in St. Catherines, but I've rarely seen him post on the Ontario board. He might be able to port a set of stock 305 heads for cheaper than S/R's. S/R's are a much better overall head, than factory 305's though.

 

This cam biziness is going to drive me nervous. With an SD 305 too little cam and you are gasping for air, too much cam and the ECM go bananananananas trying to figure out your vacuum. I don't have time to learn to re-CAL so figured I'd just run the stock chip. Guess that cuts out alot of options.

I found a guy F-BIRD'88 in Ontario with mega-posts and asked him about 305 heads. Have to wait till he gets back to me. $1k for S/R Torquers is pretty cheap Rudy Held says $1200 taxes not included what a burn eh ? And they still have to be ported.

I'll check out the zz3 and zz4 cams. I have to get this right it would be pretty silly to get the right heads and the wrong cam...

thx for the info guys !
RP.

 

man i paid 1325 for my whole engine and it is a 355, with crane gold roller rockers, 461 heads (2.02, 1.60 valves) and a good but unknown cam

 

what are you going to use for breathing? Intake, runners and TB.
I don't know about you but I have seen alot of guys dyno there so called 325 horse engines and get a shocker... My g/f brother has the crane 2032cam and trickflow heads.. and I make more power than him... SO BE CAREFUL.. I have heard that ZZ4 cams are to crazy for a 305... Just what i have heard from alot of guys.
If I were you and this is what I would do... First buy a 350... hahaha but I know you want to stick with the 305.. SO get that 2032 crane cam 450/462 ( I might have that cam..need to get it measured) a set of corvette aluminum heads 58cc... and keep the 3.42 in the back.. find a set of used intake and runners... and you'll fly!! Just what i would do.....

 

Center-bolt heads, TPI, single rear main, blah, blah... did the 350 swap before. My 305 has 70k on it I hate to waste (some say a 305 is a waste) a decent motor. So I'll be the only 305 guy in Ontario trying to break 13s. Gotta love the underdog.

HEY... are those crane gold RRs for sale yet ?

Under all that gunk (see pic) lays a 305 that doesn't leak or burn oil.

adious,
RP.

 

The ecm is good for compensating idle and part throttle, you could go to the highest of the mild cams and still keep it decent for daily driving, but the real problem is WOT and the fuel tables are hard coded into the chip. Be careful with cams with high idle.. ie hot cams... the ecm can't compensate after a point.

In other words, even if you do match a cam that the ecm can keep up with, you will not see its potential when you run it on dyno and track.

 

hahhahaha......those rockers wont be for sale for awhile.

yeah i realize the tpi/computer stuff is way more pricey, so why not do a motor and change it to carb. Mr. jordan's buddy from sudbary swapped in a 98 vortech truck 350 in to his 92 RS, through on a performer rpm, 600 holley double pumper, a junk the emissions and added a catback (he still has the stock vortech manifolds) and hooked it up to his T-5. he ran a 13.78. it was a beautful car and i love the carbed motor sitting in a newer car. by the way he said he had it in there over a year and no problems what so ever with the T-5

 

I KNOW BE CAREFUL. Thats why I made the post. I have a 350 just need to rebuild it but don't want to go through the hassle of a motor swap. I'll talk to you about your swap after the fact to see how smoothly it went ?

I figure I'll do the heads, cam and headers this winter. I might pull the motor and get some hypereutectic pistons installed, up the compression ratio, balance the crank, etc. Depends on how $$$.

If I can find the right deals (eg: used, eBay) next summer I plan on upgrading the plenum/runners/base but not until the heads and cam are in. Cam specs will be around 210/218 .480/.490 on 114 LSA.

Oh yeah I am for sure going to a 3.73 rear been there and done that and loved it. Great mod for these cars you ought to check into it -- unless you spend alot of hwy time ? I don't so don't care.

adious,
RP.

 

I have a 305..tell the difference??Is your goal really that low??Sunfires will be running 13's in a couple of yrs..IMO

Can you afford to be killed by ricers just so you can say "I have a 305??"

Daz

 

Hey Slade on my '88 TBI 305 I installed a Isky cam 217/225 .485/.505 then I put 1.6 RRs on top of it. Ended up with .505/.525 on Comp Cams HD springs. I had zero problems at WOT with that car it would wind out all dayyyyy long redline was about 6500rpm (out of a TBI no less). Wrecked the mains after about 10k.

The car would not idle with that setup -- well it would idle butit idled like crap. I think I had about 12inches vacuum at 750rpm which really messed up the SD chip. The LSA was 109 which was very tight wonder how much that had to do with it ?

Cams I am looking at now are moderate intake duration with generous LSA. IMHO -- you can add as much lift as you want to an SD system just beware of too much intake duration.

Your thoughts ?

RP.

 

 

My thoughts exactly daz.. 58 cc chambers aren't known for their clearances...

The duration should be kept pretty low. Ideally I would take a 21X/21X range duration for a decent idle. I would be cautious on the lift only because I don't think the 58 cc chambers are designed for lift above .480 because of piston to valve clearance...

The stock separation is up and around 114 to 118, and yes that does affect idle quite a bit. I would say 112 is you limit for good idles. As much as possible try to keep it around that range else idle takes a beating. You went low, 109 ecm thinks vacuum is screwed at that point, you made more midrange torque hence the 13.8 you pulled and you had a crappy idle... sounds right to me...

 

Just my opinion.
If you're going to do gears for sure. Why not do them first? Get a really good traction set-up (which you'll need anyway) and give it a whirl. Then you'll know where your at and could be surprised.
Martin.

 

Hi Martin BTW glad to hear you cleared the emissions test.

I am in fact working on traction -- I just installed LCAs, I still have a panhard to install it has the wrong bushings so I am waiting on Lakewood. SFCs if I can ever get a hold of some MACs and I am checking out some KYB AGXs so I can dial back the stiffness on race day so the car launches better.

thx,
RP.

 

Trust me I learned the lesson on duration in fact it is why I am so paranoid about intake duration and emissions and LSA.

If the heads I have now are the same as my '88s then I have tons of clearance. My cam+RRs had .505 with the 1.84 intake and .525 with the 1.5 exhaust. I seem to remember at the time I thought anything over .550 was trouble... anyway I had no problems with that kind of lift on my TBI'd 305. I think the lift might be an issue if I goto a larger diameter valve using stock heads wouldn't it ? Oh yeah the truth be known -- I did 13.9s not 13.8s.

Not sure the LSA issues I have to go read my cam book again. Wider LSA is emissions and ECM friendly, narrow is not ? Is that right ?

adious,
RP.

 

A Sunfire running 13s ? Perish the thought.

Me taking a back seat to ricers ? Mickey Thompson would roll over in is grave (RIP).

I figure I'll build the 305 just cause it is convenient, with the notion of upgrading to a 350 or 400 when it (the 305) hits about 100,000kms. Right now it has 70k something kms or about 40k something miles. Pretty low miles so why toss a perfectly good motor right now the money I save on engine building can go to suspension those freaking AGXs and the torque arm are combined over $1000CDN can you believe it ?

My new mini-van has 215hp and 240lbs torque. Go figure.

RP.

 

Yep, that's pretty much in line. Wider makes for better idle, more of an economy cam, power at midrange is sacrificed. Phew.. still making more torque than a minivan... when that day comes I'm building a 350 up...

 

Hey Richard.
Now that I'm a temporary cripple, I was crusing around last week and stopped at K&K. In their flier they advertise the KYB AGX shocks at 20% off, until the end of Oct.
I don't know the price, but may be worth looking into.
Martin.

 

I missed the part where your going to a 350 or 400 in the next 50K(or less)..In that case Ill put all the money on something that I can transfer over..Like headers and back,suspension pcs,intake etc..Before, I took my engine apart cause it had bad valve seals(smoke on startup)but it couldve lived at least another 50K kilometers..Now after 2 yrs Im still upgrading misc parts to use the new engines potential..I shouldve bought the misc parts first.My excuse then was that I didnt know what I want or need until I get the bottom end done.In Summary youll have a faster,cheaper car if your goals are set and enjoy a lot sooner too..IMO

Daz

 

Cool. Thx Martin I'll give 'em a call.

RP.