There is a lot of talk about reducing airflow restrictions with various kinds of filters or other modifications, and I too have made mods in this direction. Even with my filter mods to improve efficiency, I was seeing very fine dust slowly build up on the throttlebody, and who knows how much was going right into the engine?. Now, since I never drive at WOT, even 3K rpm is high, I have way more than enough airflow for my driving style. Therefore I began to look for ways to improve filtering efficiency even more. I ended up with both a paper filter and an oil wetted foam filter, in a kind of one after the other arrangement. I realize this is opposite to what most people do, but I feel this allows me to take advantage of the qualities of both types of filter. So far it looks like I'm stopping a lot more dust with the double filter. I still seem to have sufficient airflow for my fastest speeds, so why not? I was wondering, have any others done anything like this for the sake of cleaner air?

I run k&n filters, in my cars. They just are less maintainence than others, and save you a bunch of money in the long run. U just have to buy it once and that's it for around 20 to 30 bucks no more air filters to change(at least for a while).

Well the problem with K&N's is that yea they flow un real numbers, they let a lot more dust in..... and thats what this guy DOESNT want to happen....

ROFLMAO

Exactly what are you trying to accomplish by super-filtering the incoming air?

No really, exactly what are you trying to accomplish by super-filtering the incoming air. 'cleaner air' is not the answer i'm looking for, WHY do you think you need to superclean the air?

Take a look at an air filter run in a large diesel truck sometime. Keep in mind those engines are barely broken in at the 250,000 mile mark and last well past 1,000,000 miles.

The oil on the k&n sure does grap the dirt real good, when i had a cold air intake on my first formula 350 it was real dirty only after a few weeks of driving. the oil is what graps the the fine stuff and the paper graps the big stuff in the air.

Well whats better than a k&n filter?
I might want to switch..

Well, cleaner air and the (admittedly slight) reduction in possible wear on the engine. I saw that dirt was getting past the filter and I just want to stop it. It may not be much but it's not helping anything and since I can add more filtering without sacrificing airflow then what's the problem?

The dirt buildup I saw on the throttlebody took less than a year to accumulate. After I ran my double filter for just a few days I looked at the foam and it was definitely darker where the airflow was greatest. This must be very fine dust it had removed from my airstream. I was surprised how much darker it looked from just a few days.

I don't see any drawbacks to this. It's a win/win arrangement as long as I don't try to go to very high rpms.

$5 says he runs rich and fouls his plugs...

That's what I'm thinking. It's almost like the 1 micron bypass filters people use for their oil - it's a 2 stage filter that can grab a wider range of particle sizes. It's definitely better than a K&N filter IMO.

Well, time will tell. I've only been using this setup for about a week or 2. If I see evidence that I'm running rich then I'll reduce the filtering. I do realize that, as with most things, a compromise has to be made. The more filtering, the less flow, whether air or oil, so I might have to live with some dust. So far so good though. If people didn't experiment with new ideas and techniques we'd still be in the dark ages.

Oh, so you built 2 identical engines and you plan on evaluating this hypothesis that adding an extra air filter to the intake tract will decrease engine wear? You plan on running them in identical conditions, for identical time intervals, and then assessing the difference in wear. Come to think of it, better make that 10 engines, or maybe more than that even, you want to have a good representative set to sample from and average results to.

Oh, you didn't? Then adding a second air filter establishes nothing except that the engine still runs. Considering people have gone hundreds of thousands of punishing miles with normal and 'dirt flowing' K&N filters with no longevity effects to be noted from dirty air, i think it's safe to say that you're working on a pretty silly endeavor. Hell, i've seen cars that haven't had air filters on them in years that still worked fine. The worst issue usually to be reported is clogged air bleeds (if it's a CARBED car)

I'm not trying to come down hard on you, but i can't let you mislead people into thinking they need an extra air filter to get the most life out of their engine. If you think that's enlightenment level science, you must be getting into the happy smoke a little heavily these days.

I ran my Z28 with no air filters during love bug season. You should have seen the guts and crap in my tailpipes.

Concerning #1: Please don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing like that.

2: I'm not trying to mislead anyone, I'm simply stating the results, so far, of something I tried for anyone who's interested because I like to experiment and find new and better ways of doing things. I expected people to be against the idea, but judging by the comments so far, you'd think all filtering was a bad idea. If an engine can run without an air filter, (Hell, i've seen cars that haven't had air filters on them in years that still worked fine.) then why bother with any. Infomercials show engines running w/o oil and with dirt thrown on the exposed valve train so why bother with oil filters either?

Is it so hard to be open minded to new things? I saw something that was dirty and I was able to clean it up. I don't see what the problem is.

If you want to get to the nitty gritty of it, the problem is doing so can cause problems like decreased fuel economy, excess carbon build-up, etc. I'm not just bashing the idea because it's pointless. It actually can and will have detrimental effects.

The 'benefit' you seek, super-cleaned air is not a benefit. Millions of engines can't be wrong, you don't need elaborate excessive filtering systems. Even systems for extreme dusty/dirty conditions have a primary focus on not clogging, not necessarily extra filtering.

And i consider it my duty to make sure other people are aware that your idea makes no sense.

edit: thought i'd add, who knows, maybe you live in the high plains and you have sand problems to some extreme degree. If so, i apologize. If not, and you're like the rest of us dealing with normal dust and pollen, then get over it, lol. Or hire some ewoks to clean your intake weekly.

Just to add to the mix of ideas.

Clean air, providing the restriction is not too great, should allow longer life due to reduced wear from air born material.

Consider what goes in your fuel tank as well should be filtered that extra amount. Plus the additives you get in your gas cause buildups too.

Consider the oil as well. Even synthetics have additives for different purposes.

Consider that, even with K&N's of the world, engines today, out last engines of old. Better manufacturing, cleaner running, better lubricants, etc.

About the only way I could think of filtering the air even more, without causing a restriction would be with some sort of electrically charged setup. Have the air pass one "zone" where the air particles are charged "-", then have it go around a bend or two, and pass an opposite charge "+" which should pull out many particles left in the air stream. You'd have to clean this setup way too often. But perhaps, you could use the metal screen on the K&N for a similar purpose ... have the charge up stream from the K&N, and then the K&N is the opposite charge that attracts it.

Sciencely,
Mark.

We keep our fuel systems clean because they are pumped through precision high piece pumps, and pass through precision machined orifices. The exact functions of which are essential to the operation of the car.

Barely perceptible normal micron sized dust that gets past the airfuilter poses no such threat to an engine. Dust is not going to clog a TPI, and at worst it will mix with the normal oily funk on the IAC and look like it's causing a problem there, whereas the real issue is the oily funk.

I have no idea where there is longer engine life to be gleaned when as already stated millions of engines can't be wrong. Unless this guy goes and puts somewhere near or over a million miles on his car afer this m,od, then i won't be convinced it did anything for engine life. Because regularly filtered engines can run forever too.