Questions questions!

Give a run down on what kind of set-up you've got with your SR.
Engine
Cam
Heads
Manual or Automatic
Rockers - 1.5 or 1.6 or ??
Injectors
Gears
TIMES
DYNO #s

I know there are a few of us SR owners on here!

Let's share some knowledge!

1989 IROC convertible
Originally a 305
Now a 355
Cast crank
Melling Oil Pump
Summit Stage II rods
KB Hypereucraptic pop-up pistons
AFR 190 heads
Comp Cams XE282HR Cam
Comp Cams 1.5 Roller rockers
Crane Cams Pre-roller hydraulic roller lifters
Crane Cams Hardened Steel push rods
Port matched Edelbrock big mouth intake manifold
Port matched Accel SuperRam
BBK 52mm Throttle Body
goofy chrome HeartBeat valve covers

Stock T-5
Centerforce dual friction clutch
B&M Short throw shifter
Borg Warner 9 bolt w/3.45s and drums
Aluminum Driveshaft
Hedman headers and Y-pipe

I'm running Anetheses' APYP-cold Bin in the car right now with the injector constant changed for my 24lb injectors.
I need to put in a recently burned chip to help eliminate a hot start prob - I added crank fuel.
Base timing is at 6*.
Fuel Pressure is about 43 psi.

My car's best run so far is a 13.7 @ 102mph.

I want to squeeze some more out her.

 

You forgot your times and your dyno numbers !

 

EDIT!

No dyno #s yet.

 

Ragtop,

Don't take offense, I'm just wondering if there is anything wrong that you know of with your car. I would expect a car like that to trap closer to 107-109mph?

Am I missing something?

 

look at my sig. for all the stuff i have running with the superram. Hopefully ill have the new motor break in done in a few weeks so i can get some 1/4 mile times. The guy who built my motor thinks i should run low 12 / high 11's, but ill have to see what she can do. later

 

I'm thinking the same thing.
The day I ran my car at Darlington it was 95+* outside and HIGH humidity.
A lot of people were complaining about running almost a half-second slower than normal.
I couldn't hook up for nothing on my launches and had to ease out of the clutch for fear of wheel spin.
I was running my 17" Kumhos.

I'm thinking I've got too much cam.

But that's why I started this thread - to see what other SR owners are doing and how successful they are.

 

Ragtop, What are the specs on the cam? LSA, duration, lift? I couldn't find much on it, and the Comp Cams website is down. Trap speed has nothing to do with your lanuches or traction. Heh, I like my kumhos... you can't beat that price for some tires but yea, I agree, I'd recommend some ET streets. Makes sense on starting the thread, I was just curious if you had expect those times or expected better.

 

Check the link in my sig, it'll give you a rundown of my old setup. Basically with an unported SR, out of the box AFR 190s, LPE 219 cam, 24 lb LT1 injectors, ZZ3 shortblock, 1.6 rockers, 700r4, and 3.50 gears I ran the time in my sig.

 

XE282HR

Specifications:
* Advertised duration: 282 intake/290 exhaust
* Duration at .050 in.: 232 intake/240 exhaust
* Gross valve lift: .565 in. intake/.574 in. exhaust
* Lobe separation: 112 degrees
* RPM range: 2,600-6,500

That's off of Summit.

EDIT: It's at the VERY bottom.
Cam Specs

 

Ahhh, that is a good size cam. Is the superram ported at all? The duration is a little higher than I think you need. Lift looks good, since those heads appear to peak at around .600 lift.

Maybe it's just a tuning issue? Or maybe the duration is a bit too high.


Just curious? I've always heard the 195/Superram/LPE cam is a proven combination, any reason why you didn't go that route?

 

I didn't know about that combo 3 years ago when I first built the engine.
I didn't have the SR until a year ago.
I was running this cam on a stock TPI set-up.

TONS of low-end torque with NOTHING up top.

 

I would expect those mods to put you into the 12's. I'm running 13's on a 305 with stock heads, cam no superram. You look like you have a heck of a setup there. Good luck getting into the 12's. It should be there. Maybe on a cooler day. The humidity will definitely kill you times. Also trap speed does have something to do with how much wheel spin you get. Your trap speeds will be lower if you hook up with no wheel spin because you don't get to the higher RPM as quick. Your ET will be better because you save time from not spinning but the trap speed will go down.

 

See? Your 12 second run was what I was hoping for.
I'm thinking my cam is holding me back along with PROM tuning.

I'll get what I can out of the XE282HR until I can afford a cam swap.

 

I didn't take my car to the track when i had it together. But i had a 355 with S/R torquer heads and the superram, made quite a bit of torque. My new setup, i'm hoping to see 12's.

383, 6" rods, AFR190's, 10:1, superam plenum, runners and base, 36lbs injectors, 58mm TB and a few other do dads. 700r4, and 3.73's. I'm going to have a custom ground cam, i'm going to give the guy lingenfelters specs for the LPE219 and tell him to stay somewhere near that, but tailor it more to my setup.

 

How much compression are you running? Thats a pretty big cam, even for a superram. In addition to the fact that the combo might not be optimal, you are going to need to do a lot more tuning to get everything out of this combo. For one thing, I think you need more timing. I don't have a map of your entire timing curve, but that base timing is very conservative, and I bet the same applies throughout the rpm range.

 

Yeah, I need to log more data with the car.
Things are just hectic right now - I'm moving to Dallas in 2-3 weeks.
The weather isn't cooperating either - it can stop raining NOW.

Do you think I should add more base timing or add more total timing?
Or try both?

 

I ran 12.97 @ 109 and 13.00 @ 110 spinning thru first with drag radials on my old 383, 10.69:1 comp, ported AFR 190, ported superram combo. Injectors were 30's, slp 1 3/4 headers with 2 cats and slp cat back, 3.73 gears, yank 3500 converter and 700r4. Hurt the motor on the last pass running too lean. It dynoed 300 rwhp and 380 tq.

I have my bin from that combo if you want it, you will have to change your injector constant and add some fuel in the pe vs. cts table.

 

On my old '88:
357 4 bolt roller 10.2:1
AFR 190s (untouched, out of box) 58cc
Accel base (mild polishing)
SuperRam upper (polished runners)
LT4 hot cam (218/228 .525/.525 with 1.6 RRs, 112 lsa)
24 # Accel injectors
Ed Wright custom chip
Edelbrock TES *crap* headers
Edelbrock 3" catback
Yank 3200 lock up converter
3.27 9 bolt

With this I ran the time in my sig. The track I run at seems to trap slower than others by a couple mph.

There is still tons left in this car, with a 1.7x short time it should go into the 12.6s pretty easy, and the exhaust leaves something to be desired.

Never had it dyno'd, but going by what others have done, and various calculators, I think it would put down a little over 300 rwhp.

*woo hoo! 1000 posts!*

 

SURE! I'd love to take a look at it.
LSMILKO@SC.RR.COM

Wednesday is TnT at Darlington and I want to go as long as the weather clears by then.
I want to mess with my timing and find it's HAPPY spot.

 

I honestly think that we, including myself, f-body owners must not be paying attention to all the little details when we're rebuiling our engines. That's why there's a lot of guys who aren't running like they should be. There's plenty of guys on the corvette forum who make a lot more rwhp with their superram setups. And these are usually on MAF cars with hardly any tuning. There are plenty of vette guys who are putting 350+rwhp with unported superrams the 219 cam and heads comparable to AFR's. I think a lot of these details are things like using lightweight pistons, blueprinting, and all the stuff that makes up having a solid shortblock. Right now I'm having major blowby in my 383 Superram and it's partly my falt for not using quality parts and it's partly the fault of local machine shop guys who gave me bad advice. Anyway some of you guys are running well with your superrams, but there are a lot of people like me who maybe rushed things or just have flat out bad luck. My setup's in the sig. and I doubt I'm putting more than 280hp to the wheels which is really sad, because my tune isn't that bad.

 

im currently doin a superram setup. hoping to see some good times out of it. i had it on a junkyard 383 motor hyperpistons9.2 to 1 compression, trickflow twisted wedge heads untouched, msd6al, 3.73's, 700r4, stock rocker arms, the cam i used was a special grind 212/218 duration @.50,.44/.464 lift my best time was 13.2@106mph it wasnt too bad for what i had. now i have done a rebuild to a 385 and just put the motor in the car still trying to figure out how to do the dfi gen 7. its got srp 10 to 1 dish pistons and i have 6 inch forged h beam rods, ported and polished the trickflows to 280 cfms intake on the flowbench with the superram manifold port matched, 1.6 crane gold rocker arms, retrofit hydraulic roller lifters, hydraulic cam specs 230/244 duration, 290/307 advertised duration, 112 ls, .544/.576lift w/ 1.6 rockers, msd6al, and a few other things. im shooting for the 11s on motor and eventually will add nitrous kit to it anybody here had a setup similar to this or heard of one tell me how they did im dying to know but i wont get mine running til i figure out how to do the dfi haha thanks

 

I'm not so sure it's that. While a properly built shortblock is excellent, and all the little things will add up. This isn't the case for Ragtop. I believe his is either something to do with the cam, or tuning. Compression is the biggest thing in the shortblock.

I've got a friend who runs 9.40s with off the shelf parts, summit balance, cheapest solid roller lifters he could find, out of the box AFRs. The majority of his money went into tuning, and learning what combos work.

 

Let me rephrase what I said. I don't necissarily mean it's cheap parts that hold some people's engines from performing, it's more or less attention to detail during shortblock assembly and the matching and selection of parts for the engine. I never singled out Ragtop either, but instead I singled out a large group of people that have superramed engines that aren't running so hot. I do however agree that compression along with piston selection (they go hand in hand) is often overlooked when rebuilding a shortblock for our cars. The same thing can be said about rings and clearances concerned with them. At least this is from my own personal experience.

 

Hey Ragtop,

Thanks for asking that question because I was wondering and hoping to get some further ideas for my setup now.. Oh and by the way my car looks just like yours rims and all. NICE SETUP

 

Camarojoe,

No problem, I wasn't trying to singleout ragtop as well. I believe he will figure his out soon. But my belief, while some is in the bottom end, the majority is just a lack of attention to setting up the correct combo in your upper end. Too many people overcam, or undercam... or better yet, trust their friend to pick a cam when compcams has people setup to do that all day.

I believe that you could take standard cast pistons, stock crank, standard rings, and so fourth, as long as the compression is close to the same, they ought to be very close in terms of power.

 

In my defense I did run my 282 cam with the stock TPI for 2 years and it had great low-end torque which was all I needed for running stop-light to stop-light on Guam and daily driving around home in SC.

Now that I've got the SR on it and I've hit the track I'm a little disappointed with my times.

I want to go faster quicker and I'm recognizing something of a mis-match in my parts that may be contributing to my poor high 13 runs.

Is there anyone out there running a cam like mine with a SR?
So far - NO.

It looks like some of you guys had a better plan laid out when you built your engines.

I really didn't.

Now I get to fix the problems caused by my short-sightedness.

Hindsight is 20/20 . . .

 

Ragtop,

Just wanted to make sure you didn't feel offending by my comments. I think you've got a great looking car and a great setup, only some tuning issues and/or maybe too big of a cam.

I believe that's the biggest advantage of the TPI... it pretty much has plenty of torque for most everything. Plus the increase and lift couldn't have hurt.

So far no... your right. Maybe you are a first? Either way, I believe you'll atleast get some 104-105 trap speeds out of it. I also believe opening up the ports on the superram would have a much needed effect. Have you thought about porting it out?

 

Not a F-body but you can still use it to compare. 1986 Vette

1986 Coupe, auto, 3.07 gears, 1987 355, 10.2 to 1 compression, SLP cold air, gutted MAS, 52 MM throttle body, ported plenium, Superram intake, TPIS BASE, 23 degree Trick Flow Heads, ZZ-9 cam, TPIS headers, SLP 2400 Stall, Cheap and easy free mods, stock chip, daily driver
RWHP 311 @ 4800 RWTQ 376 FTLBS @ 3700
Best ET 12.30
Best MPH 111.38
Best 60 FT 1.73

 

EVERYTHING is port matched.
The runners are ported - beautifully smooth.
The SR runners are port-matched to the Edelbrock Big Mouth Manifold and I gasket matched the intake.

She flows.
I have TONS of low-end torque.
If I'm rolling in 2nd and punch the gas the ***-end breaks loose and starts to come around.

I think I need to get some vid of car moving and post it.

She's all low-end.

 

Low end is great. But the 101 trap speeds aren't showing that. I'd quote a saying about how torque moves a car and horsepower sells a car, or the one about your supposed to build your car for torque... but I can't remember them good enough. Anyways, the port matching sounds good, but have you thought about porting out the big mount manifold? And then trying to match everything up?


But now after looking at that cam a little better, I don't believe the cam is your problem. It sounds like an excellent choice. I know tuning is a big problem, but I still find it hard to believe it's hurting that much. I really don't know, I would have thought someone else would chimed in by now.

 

My SR came from here - For Sale Ad

Star had the SR in this car - 1990 IROC

 

Stock L98 shortblock
218/224 495/503 112 lsa cam
TF Heads
1.6 pro Mags
stock injectors
automatic stock stall
3:27 gears
stock chip


13.56 @ 103 with a 2.4 60'

 

13.5 Matt? How recent is that?

You know I'm gonna catch ya!

 

Ragtop,

I don't believe your cam is hurting your car one bit. Well it may be a little, but that's only because superrams tend to run better with single pattern camshafts. There are guys running bigger cams than you with ported superrams at least on the vette forum. And they make serious power, but I guess most of them are running more cubes. Still, there's no way your cam is going to make your car run 7mph off what it should be running. Even with your cam you should be trapping at 110+mph. Are you still running the stock fuel pump? I'm guessing you're still using MAF, so your tune shouldn't be that far off. What about your valve springs maybe you've got floating valves at high rpm? The best thing you could do is get your car dyno-tuned with a wideband 02 and see where you're at power-wise.

 

I have to agree with camarojoe, I think there is something else going on with your car. I'd recommend the dyno tune as well.

 

It may come down to that.

I'm going to futz with the car a little today and maybe take it to the track tomorrow night and play with my timing and fuel pressure.

I don't know if I said it before but I'm running a TOTALLY stock suspension on my vert with the exception of some new Lakewood LCAs.

Everytime I punch it I can feel the car flex. Kinda scary.

 

Today I set my Inj. constant at 24.3 since I was running just a little rich and added crank fuel to try and get rid of my "hot start" problem.

BLM data shows 128s across the board with the car getting a little lean on decel.

All told it looks like it's running "better".
I can't tell if it is any better as my "butt dyno" is out of tune.

BUT . . . I let it sit at idle and warm up before I shut her down.
I immediately tried to restart the car and she wouldn't fire up.

Just turned over and over.

I'll figger this thing out . . .

 

See Sig/Website for major details

 

That's not fair, Jesse.

You've obviously sold your soul to the devil so you could get 11 second times using MAF.

 

Jesse,

What do you think about Ragtop's cam? I know there's a corvette guy who is actually going to go with a custom cam where there's more intake duration than exhaust dur. Also, what do you think would be the equivilant to your cam for a 383 and a 350 with afr's and a superram?

 

Dude don't even get me started....point at hand on another thread a guy stating that maf sucks and this other guy should switch over......He posts a link to a page that shows the conversion......I wouldn't even post it again here, but its in my clipboard and this is what really kills me....At the end of the site it shows results from the MAF => SD conversion.....Here they are, then I will post the link to the site, so you can see I am not just making these numbers up........................

The first test of the season was run at Cecil County Dragway on March 4, 2000. The 7 runs were recorded as:
1 (MAP) 13.098@105 (let car shift to OD)
2 (MAP) 13.095@105 (let car shift to OD)
3 (MAF) 12.941@105 (kept car in 3rd to 5600rpm)
4 (MAF) 13.071@103 (let car shift to OD)
5 (MAF) 12.927@106 (kept car in 3rd to 5800rpm)
6 (MAP) 13.063@105 (kept car in 3rd to 5800rpm)
7 (MAP) 13.050@105 (kept car in 3rd to 5600rpm)


*note: all the runs had 60' times between 1.812 and 1.860 and so I feel are warranted for comparison..


Now tell me where the need to switch over to SD is? To me it looks like he is going slower....That was a wise move This just kills people listen to a ring leader that never puts up any numbers, but just talks a good talk. Hilarious :sillylol:

Trust me I am not the only one running these kinds of time and my soul is with who it should be with......There is not any black magic, but black mythes that have gone on tooooooo long.

Here is the site....I'm sure everyone is gonna run right out and do that mod. LOL
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/ecm_swap_730/

 

I think my solid roller 242/242 would be a great cam for any 383+ engine. You would be surprised as many this past weekend were at how docile the car really is until you get on it.

Beach bum on the vette forum is running a 383 with the 219 cam/MAF down into the 11.5 range. Ralph over there has a 350 with 219 cam/MAF in the 11.5 range, both running mail order chips. :LOL:

When looking at solid to hydraulic a hydraulic cam with the same specs as mine, would be huge, but this cam here is really not all that huge, on paper it does, but its really only a step up from the lingenfelter 219/219 cam, that too works great. The benifit you have from the solids is lighter components and quicker ramp rates to snap open and closed the valves......Anyone how thinks they are a monster and a PITA as far as maintenance is listening to the wrong people. Just as I explained to a guy at the track this weekend. I said did you have to set your hydraulic lifters? He said yeah, but man did I have a tough time feeling it. I said good you just explained why I love mechanical lifters. No possible way to collapse them, you use a feels gage to set them ~10x more accurate than rolling between a forefinger and thumb Yeah you might have to do it once or twice a year depending on how many mile you put on the car, but I for one think its important if your pounding on the car to take an afternoon each year and pull the valve cover and inspect everything under there just for insurance reasons. Don't you think? So what is the big deal?

Sorry to go off on my rant..........If he wants to stay hydraulic the 219 cam seems to work great in everything, other than that a cam specialist is probably better suited to answer the questions.

 

Well actually, they were almost dead on. Judging the two closest, 1/2 vs 4 it shows that the trap speed was actually higher for MAP. 6 vs 5 shows MAF slightly faster trap speed and 7 vs 3 shows map being slightly faster trap speed.

But the fact is, something so small is hardly comparable. A downwind against the car could have effected that. Those runs are practically identical.

Also, I'm kinda of confused on where people were going off on MAF? I think most everyone agrees, from a plug & run standpoint MAF is the way to go. Although it's claimed to limit at around the 450hp range unless under boost. Of course, I have no proof as I run a MAP based system.

So where was the arguement here. I believe his comments, based upon the smiley, were considered a joke.

 

Ions,

You have to be joking right??/

Do you honestly think my car is not making over 450 HP??? It weights exactly 3375 with me in it, that was with a 1/4 tank of gas, now I have to run with 1/2 tank so it actually weights more......But do the math.....I think you will see that the little 450 HP rule is slightly off.

Also Ragtop I know is just joking around and he knows that I am just offering my opinion, and basing it on facts.

My whole point is clearing up this misconception of MAF limiting power, and from the side-by-side results pointed out earlier, there is no benefit from the SD switch....What you don't see how it probably took the guy 3 months to get the car back into the same ET/MPH range as it was before.

Unless your cranking a mid 10s/9 sec 1/4 the MAF is the least of your worries.

 

HAHAHAHAHAH!! That's funny, I might have to go tell the guy who posted this info off. No, but really that info. explains itself as proving the MAF vs SD debate. Of course no SD advocate will admit it.

Ski,

Maybe you need to put your engine in a f-body and run some low 11's at around 120 to get some of these people to believe. But I'm already there man, and that's why even without doing a bunch of tests on my engine, I'm probably going to pull it in a month or so and use top quality components, which include a set of wiseco pistons I just won on ebay, which will put my compression up to around 11.5:1+ Oh yeah, one more thing, how much is it to convert to a solid roller setup? Do i just need the lifters and the cam?

 

Camero,

I remembered seeing that article somewhere during all the other debating and refered to it several times, but just never gave it much ambition to go ****** it up for conversation sake

Anyways, to convert to Solid is just getting a good cam/lifters/Springs/roller button ($10)

My setup is pretty expensive, but you don't need to get that crazy, that cam I have is nearly 500 dollars, then lifters etc so you should plan on about 1K for that switch alone, but it produces

 

Whoa... calm down man. I said above, that I have no proof on the 450 hp limit. I have MAP based system, and have very little experience with MAF based systems. The fact is MAP and MAF are both good systems. In the end, the MAF will become the limiting factor, but I do agree, unless you are really moving, then there is a little need to switch. I've never been one to tell others they need to switch to MAP, so you may want to redirect any of those comments like that away from me.


All I was pointing out is there is no one in this thread other than a joke that said anything bad about MAF, and you quickly went on a rant. No one was saying MAF was a bad system. There was simply a joke about it.

 

Ski,

Just be sure to post your dyno numbers whenever you get them and make sure everybody sees them. This will not only prove you don't need SD to put down good numbers, but it will also show that you don't need some high-revving intake to make power, since so many people dismiss the superram in favor of the newer stealthram and the "much-touted" miniram. I'm sure your dyno #'s would show right around 400rwhp, which is what probably a little over 500hp at the crank?

 

I have been to Doug Rippie's shop (located in my hometown near Minneapolis) and they had mentioned that the 450 HP limit to MAF as well...

However, they said APPOXIMATELY...and they also have some pretty interesting tuning/cam ideas for TPI engines that were race engines (limited to stock TPI setup)...

See the other current thread about switching from MAF to MAP too for more info.

 

The bin is here:

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/micdoc...E+Bins&.view=l

Change the pe vs cts to make it richer.