ok guys, here is my option i can get a set of both of these for about the same price(used) and i am wonderin which i should go for, for my setup. i have a TPI 400. and im looking to get into the 12's with the car. i know the Edelbrock's have 170cc int. runners and 70cc CC's and the TrickFlows have 195cc Int. Runners and 64cc CC's. am i not seeing the obvious or is there a reason why id go with the edelbrocks? in my mind i see some people complaining of flashing in the runners ect. but not exactly sure. your thoughts????

 

Feed the 400, use the TF's. Only concern would be the CR.

 

i figured that i should get the trickflow's but would it be too much? with the 195cc int. runners? or just right? will i have to do tons of porting to my lower plenum? iv heard of some problems with flashing on the TFS heads.....anyone using edelbrocks or trickflows or have had both?

 

Personally, I've had both including AFR's and AFR's are the way to go and if your gonna drop one grand, you might as well save a few more bucks, get the best! between the two, I would go with the edlebrock's, more reliable product!

 

more reliable as in? because i can get both for 600 shipped.(each set) so i am saving, and they are barely used. anyone else think the edelbrocks will be good? im not going all out racing i just want a 12. sec barn burner

 

My experience, the Edlebrocks will give you more torque and are better suited for the tpi. TFS are ok, but the craftsmanship and overall quality of the Edlebrock's are just much better. Now, if you can get the TFS for a cheaper price, it may be the beter buy? For the same price, Edlebrocks!

 

well i can get the trickflows for 600 shipped and 650 for the edelbrocks shipped......

 

That's your call! I would try and find out the condition of the heads. New/used, if used, WHY ARE they selling them?????? Also, look at flow numbers. I think the Edlebrocks are a better head, but there are others who may disagree. I have had both, and if you can get a good deal, take teh deal that works best for you! What ever you do, use the search and research the heads you are looking into!

Good luck!

 

iv got flow numbers from both sets of heads.

Edelbrock
EX.51 104 132 157 173 180 186
INT 64 129 189 218 237 225 230

TrickFlow
EX 70 102 140 164 183...chart ended....
INT 65 133 188 226 250...Chart Ended...

the trickflows flow better. but not a whole lot.... especially when compairing 170cc's 195cc's

 

Flow numbers are always suspect to me because of all the variables and, sometimes fudging, involved. How the bench was calibrated, etc..

For example, if you look up the Edelbrock Performer RPM heads on their site the flow numbers are higher with a max of 244. Actually, according to Chevy HiPerformance Mag, the Edelbrocks only measured 166 cc intake ports. To me, to get that much flow from such a small port is a positive thing; e.g. very high velocity.

Is that advertising fudge just to compete with other companies?

I bought a set of Edelbrock 60739 Performer RPM heads when my car had a 355 engine in it and I was pleased with the quality. I was even able to opt for the version of heads which comes with better springs which can handle much more lift; for the same price. Never had a bit of trouble with them.

I visually inspected mine when they came and I only found a very slight lip where the CNC porting ended and the as-cast port began. I smoothed that out with my Makita.

Air Flow Research has always been acclaimed as the leader in flow in all the flow bench shoot-outs I've read. There are some REAL problems with them, though.

First is availability; some guys have to wait three or more months to get them.

Others have complained that they did not come with the sensor holes drilled and tapped (gauge coolant temp and fan).

Are the bolt holes heli-coiled? I don't know.

Another guy complained bitterly about their Customer Service.

And finally, QUALITY CONTROL. If you really want to see the awful quality of their castings, take a look at the photos posted on the corvetteforum section. Hundreds of little holes in the aluminum casting. Looks like heads with measles. Terrible casting.

http://www.forums.corvetteforum.com\zeromain

Then go to the C4 section. I forgot the title of the thread, but it was posted within the past week of so; shouldn't be hard to find.

Hope this helps.

Jake

 

well i know the AFR's have there ups and downs but i was compairing Edelbrock and Trickflow's. jake i dont know if you didnt realize or you just didnt want to say anything about the trickflows. but i think my best bet would be to go with the trickflow's larger cc intake runners , smaller Combustion Chambers, better flow numbers(not fudge) but i should start a poll for this..... or not? well i need more opinions, i want to run in the 12s anywhere. but with the 195cc intake runners will i have to do alot of lower plenum porting? i know the edelbrocks will probably supply lower torque than the trickflows and i just need some good flat evidence of a good setup for me.

 

Also the guy said they were "twisted Wedge" heads and if im not mistaken thats only for fords. but i searched and couldnt find the twisted wedge heads for chevrolets....

 

The Twisted wedge heads SUCK! P E R I O D!

 

why do they suck? and do they even make them for chevrolet?

 

They made them for Chevys, if the springs haven't been upgraded in them you may want to do that.

 

You're right, I know only a little about the TFS heads, and none of it is from personal experience. I know you only want to buy heads once, so you're doing the right thing by doing your homework.

From the posts I've read there were initial manufacturing problems with TFS heads, but I believe they have been corrected.

Check on some of the other forums for more information on them. You can post a question about them and I'm sure you'll receive lots of responses.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zeromain and

http://corvetteactioncenter.com and

http://vettes@asu.edu

are three that come to mine off the top of my head.

Hope this helps.

Jake

 

Ive got trick flow kd's 23 degree and they look awesome.AFR's are #1then come trick flows. And in third come the edelbrocks.

 

id rather not go on those forums....lol i dunno too much time....i just want to know people with edelbrocks and with tricflows or there setups with TPI and what there running, i just want a basic goal of 12's pretty much

 

The tws 23deg heads are ok, however, the twisted wedged heads are notorious for manufacture flaws, especiall with the valve guides. I purhased a set, and followed the instructions to the T! My valve guides went south after only 7K miles! I measured the lengh on my pushrods as one should. I used a pushrod .001 longer than stock. The owner of TWS heads called me on it and said "you used the wrong push rod lenght checker". BULLSH*$! I am extremely particualr about everything I do and my heads were set up right! I even called thier tech line for assistance and they told me to use that particualr pushrod. The TWS heads had awsome performance, however, the valve guides suck! THe heads I Purchased from summmit were supposed to the new and "imporved heads" with bornze valve guides. They changed teh valve guides becasue SO many people were having issues with them! Well, after 7K, the guides were bad! Never had teh 23deg heads, but I"ve not heard anyone having problems with the valve guides and a lot of people like them. As for me, If i'm gonna spend over 1G on a set of heads, I would and DID go with AFR's! I would go as far to say, DEFINATELY GO WITH THE EDELBROCKS, they are a product you can count on!

 

will they get me into the 12's? the edelbrocks? with a mild cam(454/480 w/ 1.5's....488/512 w/1.6's) SLP runners 24# inj. AFPR 9.5-10:1 5-speed w/ 4.11's posi w/ slicks?? 1 3/4 headers as well. punched cat 3in exhaust...(what i have now minus headers) this is all going on my 400.

 

You had better do more to the induction than just SLP runners. The manifold base will choke off that 400 and the plenum will need to be ported to match the runners.

 

well i know that, i was just giving a breif description....12s ya think? close?

 

Let me see if I have this right.

You posted asking for information about two brands of cylinder heads.

I, and others give you information and even links to forums where you can get more information to allow you to be able to make a more informed decision.

Yet, you can't take the time to check those site outs.

Now, what's wrong with that picture?

Jake

 

because id probably have to become a member correct? and its not like im not taking your info and putting it to use. if all the information is here then i shouldnt have to check alot of other websites iv checked a few already and asked people locally there opinions ect. i dont need much pursuasion to find out what i want. i mean edelbrocks are a good quality head yes. but will they get me to the 12's? i know someone who ran 11's with a 350 with these heads in a S-10. so i figured i know i must be able to get close. im just going to go with the edelbrocks, if im not happy with them, ill let you guys know to add to the info. unless i get a good deal on AFR's or something like that.....

 

If someone takes the time to answer your questions, and provides a link, why not check it out no you dont have to be a member to read a topic.

To answer your question, will it run 12s, yes! but your better have your prom tuned exactly to your combo. the heads are not the problem, the weak cam profile is. good luck

 

I’ve built a number of engines for folks (and myself) using a number of different heads. I bought one of the first sets and personally like the Twisted Wedge Trick Flows. TFS used those POS 1.25” K-motion springs (rated .500 lift) on some of the heads (like mine) and they got a bad rep when the springs failed on folks running cams over .460 lift. Those springs are still crap by the way. Plus, the original “G1” wedges used iron guides. If the valve-train wasn’t nuts on,, they wore badly – I have seen this first hand (although the ones I set up have had no problems). The same goes for the newer and current “G2” wedges concerning valve train geometry. As someone stated they upgraded the “G2” heads with bronze allow guides. They also changed the intake valve angle from 13 degrees to 15 degrees. These changes helped reduce the wear on the guides in cases when the valve train was close, but not perfect. I know Raiden had a bad experience and I’ll take his word that the valve train was right. There’s always a chance the guides were bad (it can happen), or there was an oiling issue that caused the excessive wear. However, baring those two instances, most excessive guide wear can be attributed to bad valve train geometry.

The G1 and G2 TFS heads are rather limited in what you can do with them, when using a standard 23 degree flat-top piston. You’re limited to around 230 degrees duration at .050 lift on a 110 spread with no more than .530” cam lift,,, and the maximum lift will depend on what lobe spread you’re running and where you put the intake center line. You cannot run 23 degree domed pistons. There are no stud girdles available, a necessity in my mind when using a solid tappet cam. You have to buy fairly expensive pistons if you want to run lifts over .530,, or want more compression than a flat top piston would give you. You’re even limited to what CAST aluminum valve covers you can run on the G1s. You either have to notch them yourself with a grinder,, or buy a set that are already notched for rocker shafts or the rocker arms will “tap” the covers.

Still,, if you would be 100% satisfied and never want more from the engine than the limitations restrict you,,,, they’re as good as or better than any head you can run on that particular type application – flat top engine running a relatively mild hydraulic cam. However, I always recommended people go with a standard 23 degree head when I had my speed shop. Because for most people,,,, the pain dealing with them is not worth the gain. Plus,, if you think you might step on up to a serious engine combination, it’s easier,, and less expensive in the long run to invest in a more expensive 23 degree head to begin with. The 195 Canfields use to get my vote for the best street head for the money when you could buy them complete for under $1000. Last time I checked they were getting in AFR price range though.

If the heads you’re looking at are both in equally good shape,,, and if you can live with the twisted wedge’s limitations,, at $650 I’d say go with them over the Edelbrocks. If you think you might want more power than the limitations on the TFS heads could give you,, go with the Edelbrocks. If one is in better shape than the other (guide wear, valve job, springs, etc),,, go with it. Still,, be careful,,, $600 is not that good of a deal if you have to put much money in them before you could run them.

As far as your ET,,, I ran 13.0s at almost 110 mph with box stock G1s on a flat top 355 with a fully ported GM base and plenum and modified SLP runners and 218/228 - 110 .486/.504 cam - 24# SVO injectors and stock 88 GM PROM (the tune was close). Race weight was 3550 lbs, 3.23 gears, 3000 stall, 88 degree weather, and I couldn’t hook the car for squat even with a pro-stock burnout on ET streets with the base timing at 12 degrees. I had to roll off some timing to get it to hook enough to break in the 12s,, but it killed my mph. I’d think you could easily run in the 12.7s with box stock TFS and similar combination on a 406 in similar temps – possibly quicker with a better than stock suspension. High 12.30s, low 12.40s with a good hook in cool weather would not be out of the question with a hogged out intake system.

Good luck.

 

i think i am going to buy the edelbrocks, this is my goal, to beat my brothers firebird, he ran a 13.30 with his 407(.030 over w/5.7in rods) 10.56:1 Performer RPM cam(488/510) Holley 750 double pumper 1 5/8ths headers into a y pipe with single 3in exhaust. 4.11 gears posi slicks 5-speed.....only 13.30's...but stock 350 heads.... 1.94/1.50 valves ect. its really killing him.....but i just hope he doesnt buy a set of heads soon. lol..... kevin you say "limitations" of the TFS heads do you mean limitations as in having specific valve train and thats why go with the edelbrock because the valve train is interchangable...or do you mean like more porting to the Edelbrocks ect?

 

Basically I mean limitations on the Twisted Wedge TFS regarding –

1 -- You either have to run flat top pistons and be straddled with the limits on the cam (as previously pointed out) OR you have to buy pistons designed for the 13degree / 15 degree valve angle so you can run what ever compression or cam you want. This is not an issue IF you were planning on running flat top pistons AND you were not going to EVER run a larger cam than previous indicated. It’s also not an issue if you were going to buy high dollar pistons anyway.

2 -- There are no stud girdles made specifically for the twisted wedge heads. To me they’re critical when using an aggressive cam,,,, especially when using a fast rise roller. Although, you may be able to use two sets of the inexpensive “loop” girdles - I’ve been looking for someone in my area that has a set to try. Again,, if you’re planning on running no more cam than you can with std 23 degree flat tops,,, this is not an issue either.

3 -- Also not any ole roller rocker arm will work. The “fly cut” (for large springs) Harland Sharps ($219) will work and most of the more expensive race roller rockers will. However most of the $170 “street” roller rockers won’t clear the spring/retainer of even the 1.25” springs. Not a super big problem if you’re going to run 1.25” diameter springs since the Harland Sharps are semi-reasonable,,,, but I’m not sure about the clearance even on them on larger diameter springs. I’ve been running 1.6 stamped steel Crane rockers with the 218/228 cam and 1.25” springs,,, so again,,, this might not be an issue for some.

As far as porting,,,, when done properly, the twisted wedge heads can deliver better flow from a 2.02 valve than any 23 degree head on the market and do it with less runner volume (the G1s anyway) - mainly because they’re not 23 degree heads – lol. If you’re seriously interested in getting the twisted wedge TFS and having them ported, give Trick Flow a call for after porting numbers – they’re pretty impressive. I’ll be flow testing my G1s (after mild pocket porting) for a sidebar to an upcoming article within a few weeks – just to show how well they do respond to porting.

The TF wedges (with a mild bowl port) can deliver over 480 horses on a relatively mild and inexpensive flat top 406 combination (carbed or with a StealthRam),,,, all while staying within the limitations of running a std 23 degree flat top piston. BUT, you can similar results with standard 23 heads with a comparable cam,,, and more than that with a more aggressive high lift cam. Like I said,,, I like the heads, but I would have loved to stick a small solid roller cam I had laying around the shop in the 355 for grins,,, but I couldn’t do it since I was running std 23 pistons. If I would have had standard 23 degree heads,,, I would have done it in a flash. So,, that’s why I don’t necessarily recommend them,, there’s not much wiggle room in what you can get away with doing.

 

im going to be sending the money for the heads probably sat. if i can or monday. there are 250ish miles on it and the TW heads have 5K on them. but anyways thanks for your guy's help. im probably going to do a little cleaning up of the runners and thats about it.

 

Reviving an old post, but Kevin, I have seen stud girdles for the twisted wedge heads. Could you post your flow numbers... I, too have the G1 heads. Thanks.

 

Iv got edelbrocks now and theyll be on and in the car within a week!

 

How did the Edelbrock's work?

 

i am very satisfied with the heads, i ran 12.60's but can easily have ran better id predict when i put my 3.73's in and get my "code" problems fixed i should be close to the 11's. one of the other locals had a 400 with 11:1 and the complete RPM package and a bad carb(huge hessitation off the line) still ran 11.8 in an S-10 with a ford 9inch rear. so these heads are deffinately capable of higher HP, if i do anything to the motor more serious id have them ported. hope this helps

 

Exactly which heads are these?
Did they come with the steam holes?
Would your car pass the sniffer test? (Nevermind the visual or anything else).

Thanks,
Jason

 

I have the Edelbrock RPM heads. and i had a shop do the steam holes, i didnt feel like messing up the heads so i paid the guy 20 bucks to do it. and i highly doubt itll pass the sniffer test. all i have is an ungutted cat. but who knows. its low compression.