Mike,

Bring your ported TPI sheeeiit, just bring it! I think maybe my MRIII & Fast Burn head combo still might be a little much for ya!

However, you'll have to wait until I get the new brakes on.

 

Neil, I accept your challenge. But dont go crying home to your mommy when I smoke your crop dustin' car's butt !

You wont need brakes, you'll need doors ! (insert visual of my car blowing the doors off your car).......

LOL

Anywho, yea get those Z06 brakes done. It was a pain in the butt getting them for you for the price I got them for!! Hurry up and pick out a wheel so you CAN run those brakes!


Getting back to reality...... I think I'd have a decent chance when I get the intake back from extrude hone and once I get some gears. It WILL be interesting to say the least.

I'll give ya a call afterwork,

Mike

 

Ya'll both better watch out when I get my pile outa the drveway .

 

Yeah, ok Scott bring it, biooootttchhhhhhhh! Don't really have to worry about you, your governer will probably fly out or crap-out on ya again!

.....and Mike I don't need to go any further with the trash talk cuz your just a web-board dreamin', drag racer! Who am I, "My heads flow xxx cfm, this guy can port my stock POS intake and runners and they'll flow this much and with a supercharger and gears i'll be too fast!" Hmmmm, the question is what can you do with that pile right now, performance wise? Let me answer that for ya, NOT A DAMN THING!!!!!!

Dude, just kidding.

I say to you blowing my doors off though!

I am out, back to work.

 

lol, funny Neil, funny.

You and I both that you were shocked that I was right on your butt when we let 'em rip on 45 feeder. And as I recall, you couldn't keep up all that well on cypresswood! AND, I'll race your Z06 with my car as it sits right now when you get it. I've won against one before, and with you driving, it should be even easier! lol

And Scott, it will be 3 more years of occasionally taking your car on a 5mph trip arround the block before you get yours ready!

Ok, enough with the smack talking.

I'm curious to see if anyone has used extrude hone on their intakes. Anyone with before and after results?

Cronsformula350 - didn't you say you do extrude honing?

 

Ok, last thing, since when is "right on my butt" = to 5-6 car lengths?
Oh, no.........

Seriously, to all those out there, Mike has the fastest, naturally aspirated true-TPI car that I have seen! It will rip!

 

Thanks for the compliment Neil! You and I both know that I'm not through with it yet though. We'll see what extrude hone can do for it.

To ALL NON believers (my vortec head argument), you guys may find this interesting. It's a car craft article from February 2002.

Peace out!

Mike

 

Notice where it said "MILDLY PORTED"? Mine are butchered! I'm sure my heads flow even more at .600 etc..., but my cam is only .503 lift, so the .500 lift intake cfm number is all that matters to me. So to the guy that posted all that info about the "best" vortec heads porters only get so an so out of a set, well, maybe they don't know it all.

Sorry for the rant, now back to our regularly scheduled programing (extrude hone and runner/intake info).

Mike

 

yeah 1bad91Z, I'm extrude hone porting a gm base from a 91 FORMULA 350. Right now I have the passenger side port matched, and honed out pretty nice, every port looks exactly the same, I'm using a nice caliper to ensure each runner is as close to eachother as possible, I still have the runner side, and passenger side to finish, but I have to port my stuff out in my shed, and where I'm located, its pretty damn cold right now, with an average windchill of -15 to 0, so I'll be back out to the shed with my diegrinder in hand in about a week or so, we'll see what happens.

This base I'm working on will be going on my 87 IROC-Z 350. The firebird isn't using anything but the throttle body and injectors from the previous tpi intake.

I will admit I like the tpi for the 1/8th mile, but it falls short shortly there after. Back when my formula was still on the road, I would take damn near anything in the 1/8th mile on the street, including most vettes and zo6's, a M3 I went against once, any import, and some turbo ricers, no ***** got past me. torque is great, but I like mph and et's better. I cut a 2.00 60ft, while slipping with exhaust manifolds and only a flowmaster catback, and other mods.

Check out my site for other info on what I did.

http://www.cardomain.com/id/cronsformula

My bird should be out no later than the end of march!

Here is my old venerable tpi 350, with a few parts removed.

 

How are you doing this?

Extrude Hone is a trademarked process.

Maybe you can clarify your process.

 

With my carbide bits, sanding drums and rolls from standard abrasives, and several long sanding roll collets. And like I said, I am using a modified die caliper, that has longer arms to measure with, that are about 6" long, as opposed to the 1" versions normally used.

 

Thats called porting and polishing, not extrude honing.

Kinda silly to throw around the wrong terms.

 

http://www.extrudehone.com/

 

From what I understand, extrude honing is done with a corrosive puddy spread over the desired porting area. Once the material has been corroded away to the desired ported size, the puddy is removed and the surface is polished.

I "could" be wrong, but this is how I unsterstood the process.

 

no the process involves "extruding" abrasive media (basically sandy clay) through the casting to grind/ polish away material.

I have been reading this thread and just got some SLP castings that I was going to hand port.

but man only 215 for extrude honing sounds nice for the amount of flow you say they are quoting you.

 

It involve the same basic idea for the "removal", some shops do it differently, my shop does both depending on the work, and material, that is going to be removed. It can be done very accurately with a diegrinder, and a good hand and eye, while checking your work, I never claimed to be the best at it, but thats why I'm using a caliper to verify each port is the same. I'll put up some pictures of it when I'm done with that 91 base I told you about.

http://www.borowskirace.com/

 

Extruding is to push through by force an abrasive sludge that cuts and cleans the casting flash, corners, and unblanced transitions of the part in question.

It does not include the use of a die grinder, abrasive wheel, sanding rolls, or carbide bits. Otherwise known as porting and polishing.

Sure it is obvious that the desired results are the same, but so are the dsired results of turbo and supercharging.

THE TERMINOLOGY IS NOT INTERCHANGABLE!!!

So I cant understand why anyone would go around like fool saying that they are Extrude Honing something when the machines and tooling alone probably cost Extrude Hone the company upwards of 100,000$ or more.

SO NO, YOU ARE NOT EXTRUDE HONING YOUR 91 BASE. YOU ARE PORTING AND POLISHING.

Stop exagerating and start posting within the realms of reality.

 

Ominus 97, I appreciate your desire to have people use terminology in the correct manner, however, I don't see the point in flaming people over it.

AND


Let me remind you that these boards are to share knowledge for the purpose of learning and application, and keep in mind that not everyone knows everything about all subjects discussed. Seeing that you are knowledgeable in this area, perhaps in the future you can tone down your inflammatory responses and stop being a fool yourself!

 

Thanks mommy, now run along as the church ladies group is calling.

 

Hey guys, this is my topic.

Dont need anymore flame wars on this thread.

The topic is extrude hone / porting for TPI intake manifolds and runners.

 

Mike

I would go ahead and do the runners.

However with a few considerations.

1. Have you already gasket matched the runners to the base?
2. How much work have you already done, excatly?
3. How far down the SLPs openings have you siamesed them?
4. Once you get em back they will most likely still need some matching work with the rest of the intake tract.

It would be **** to do the base as well, however it is damn expensive. However your biggest consideration with the base will be to reduce and shape the injector bosses when everything else is done.

 

I have port-matched the SLP runners and SDPC base to 1.75" TPIS big-mouth gaskets. I got as far into the runner as I could and knocked out about half an inch of the runners divider walls (basically siamesed them .5" further down).

Where the extrude hone will come in handy is, they can make the whole tubes in each runner be exactly 1.75" all the way through to get the extra flow out of them.

Does anyone know the exact factory flow numbers for new style SLP runners?

Also, does anyone know the flow numbers for an un-touched SDPC base?

 

The torque boost for the LTRs makes a flat-top, hydraulic cammed 355 running in the high 12s respond / feel as good as a low 11 second, flat-top roller cammed 406 with a carb. I know this because I have built more than a few and have owned both of these “examples”. Playing around on the street,,, the 12.80 LTR 355 gives the impression it is a LOT faster than it actually is. My Monte Carlo has run 11.18 @ 124 mph (capable of 10s with better traction) and I dare say the 12.80 LTR TPI felt just as quick “playing” and had similar power and “pull” until around 4,000 rpm,,,, which was about where the carbed 406 starts to really come into play – 6800 rpm shift point. I don’t doubt for a minute Mike that your car feels like a beast,, it might even be one. It WILL be one if the heads flow even remotely close to 278 cfm (assuming high 260’s on a “low reading” bench). FYI - I know of a high compression roller cammed 406 that pulled close to 550 horses with 2.02 valved Vortec heads flowing 266cfm on the intake. So it’s not that I don’t believe the Vortecs can make serious power when ported,, and I also believe they’re a good match for a hogged out TPI.

I would like to know who wrote that Car Craft article and what shop did the work to the heads (address and phone number if available). I never claimed McCoy Motorsports knew everything, just they had the best numbers that I knew of from a Vortec head (2.055 valves @ .700 lift - $2500 assmembled), flowing just a little better than what you believe yours to be doing (1.94 valves @.500 lift - $400). Maybe after calling and talking to these guys that did the heads in the Car Craft article, or stopping in to check out their facility,,, maybe I can claim them to be generating the best numbers that I know of - since you don’t know the guy that did your heads.

As far as runners only
Accel cast LTR - 242 cfm
Accel LTR extrude honed - 276 cfm
SuperRam runners – 289 cfm

Base
Stock Accel Base – 251 cfm
Extrude honed Accel base – 276 cfm

Base and runners – no plenum
Accel LTR on stock Accel base – 232 cfm
SuperRam runners on stock base – 240 cfm
Extrude Accel cast LTR on Accel stock base – 243cfm
Extude Accel LTR, extrude Accel base – 267 cfm*
This number will be reduced 3 - 5% with the plenum (approximately 259 – 254 cfm)

Separate Test – numbers @ .500 lift

AFR 195 box stock heads 248.6 cfm

Heads + MiniRam (no t/b) – 243.9 cfm (98.1% efficiency)

Heads + Accel stock base – 244.4 cfm
Heads + Accel base + SuperRam runners – 228.3 cfm
Heads + Accel base + SuperRam runners + plenum (no t/b) – 220.3 cfm (88.6% efficiency)

Heads + Stock TPI Base – 231.5 cfm
Heads + Stock TPI Base + Stock runners – 210.6 cfm
Heads + Stock TPI Base + Stock runners + plenum (no t/b) – 198.9 cfm ( 80% efficiency)

I would think the SDPC base should flow similar to the Accel base,,,,,,, but you never know for sure. I haven't had my hands on a SDPC base,,, but assuming the rest of the intake was of similar quality as the Accel unit,,, it's possible that it could flow better than the Accel with the slightly higher intake runners.

 

BadSS - Again, I wasn't trying to flame anyone here. Also, I was by no means bragging. There are plenty of heads out there that flow better than mine. However, I was trying to explain to everyone out there that it HAS been done (270 cfm + out of a set of vortec heads). Mine really do flow what I claim with 1.94 valves. Head work is an art, and some artists are better than others!


I still would like to know the factory flow numbers of the SLP runners and SDPC base though, if anyone knows, please share.

Mike

 

Nice, I would ensure that Whatever happens that they dont remove much or any material from where the runner meets the base if you have already worked it over real good, you might have a hard time getting it to seal up. Then get those runners as pigged out in the middle as possible. Also before you send em out cut that divider down as far as possible on the top to reduce the actuall runner length as mush as possible.

Your goal at the end of the day will be to cut down the runner length as far as possible, enlarge the plenum so there is large dense charge of air to pull from: it will get bigger as the runners get shorter, and lastly remove as much alluminum as possible throughout the runner tract to feed that motor every last breath it desires. Of course all ports should be perfectly matched throughout with a good polish to minimize velocity loss due to uneqaul levels of friction against the walls of the alluminum.

 

double post

 

Look man,, I wish you the best of luck and hope that things runs even better than you think,,, or than it should. I'm just afraid guys wanting to duplicate your efforts (with vortec heads) are going to be VERY disappointed in the results. Because,,, there are not plenty of heads out there that flow better than yours with 1.94 valves. AFR 195 competion CNC ported heads with 2.02 valves that cost $2000 are barely hanging. If you say there are plenty of heads costing more than $2000 for the set,,, and running larger valves sure,, I'll agree to that.

I know what I'm seeing from Vortec heads in this area,,, being ported by guys running back and forth from the flow bench while porting them. They're getting serious power from them as I pointed out earlier. I build a lot of engines and have a good many folks wanting work done on Vortec heads. If there is a person or shop out there that can do better work than me or the guys I know in this area,,, fine,,, I have no problem with that. However, I want to know about them - what #s they're getting from the heads and how much they want for the work they're doing. Do you know who penned that Car Craft article or the name of the shop / person that did the work on them? Can you give that information?????

 

No sir, I don't. However, if you e-mail Car Craft, I'm sure they can sell you a back issue (February 2002) that contains that article. The information you are requesting will most likely be in there.

 

You're hilarious and just full of all sorts of vague useless informaton huh?

 

I beleive that is Mike's specialty

 

Steve Dulcich wrote the article.
There is no mention of the name of shop or person that did the work on them, as they were used merely as an example in comparison to other cylinder heads (head porting article). Westech Performance group does most of the flowbench testing for Car Craft, but whether or not those particular Vortecs were flowed there is not specified.

Mike didn't tell you more because he didn't have anymore. The allusion to those particular Vortecs was brief. I don't think he was trying to be rude. If there is any other information you would like from the article, PM me and I will be more than happy to give it to you.

 

Last night I cut open some more SLP runners and found that some had port size as small as 1.441 in the lower middle of the runner. If you are looking for big flow numbers the best way is to cut them open, do your work and weld them up.

Jerry

 

ohh lord...SLP runners are pissing me off now.

I have to take mine off again ad re-work them :/

1.4X ID in some spots!?!?! WTF IS THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I will say it again, similar ending results as extrude hone porting, there are many different ways of hone porting! And I didn't say I was polishing the intake either, you don't polish an intake, you smoothen it. When your doing heads or an intake, especially a carb intake, you want to leave the surfaces silghtly ruff, but smooth, and especially the intake side of the heads, to prevent fuel puddling. The only parts you polish, are the exhaust ports, outside of the valves, and combustion chamber. People that believe polishing makes power know nothing about porting work, but are caught up in the "hipe" of head and intake work.

 

Thanks man. I was hoping I knew who wrote the article,, or the shop that worked the Vortec heads were referenced. I appreciate you going back through it and looking for that information. I've got a dude wanting a killer set of Vortec heads and I was thinking based on the information I had that we were doing a decent job getting good results out of the Vortecs,,,,, maybe not. I'll give Westech a shout to see what they're seeing from them. Thanks again.

 

Mike, I certainly wish the best for ya, but I have to cast doubt on that guy. I think you'd be happier if you saved the money to see what happens with the Vortec Stealth Ram. Or you can always go single plane multi-port.

 

It doesn't matter, you said you performed extrude honing, and you didn't. It is not the same thing. You ported the intake. Extrude honing provides a more consistant and smooth intake. This isn't a carb intake, so why would you compare porting a TPI intake to a carb intake? In carb intake fuel can pubble because fuel is introduced before the intake. In TPI fuel isn't introduced until the end of the intake manifold so polishing it is good for a little more smoothness up until the injector bung.
JP

 

BadSS - I wasn't being rude. In fact, you were the one being rude.

I posted all the information that I had to offer to the particular topics in this thread. If that isn't good enough, then seek elsewhere (other than this thread) for the information you seek.



Getting back to the topic, I know I could go go with a vortec victor jr. EFI intake, or with a mini-ram, or with a vortec HSR (if Holley ever makes one), but I'll say it again, I'm staying LTR TPI.

I will probably send the runners to Extrude hone first. After I get them back, I'll examine them and (post pics of course), and then make a determination if I'll send the base to them.

I still need flow numbers for the SDPC vortec TPI manifold. Do anyone of you guys know what it actually flows (un-ported) ???

I will call SDPC today to try to find out the answer.

Mike

 

NO S H I T SHERLOK, you deserve an award!

1bad91z, call them up. If it helps any, the sdpc and bigmouth, edelbrock, and tpis ones are supposed to flow about the same, except for the different bolt pattern on the sdpc base, I could see how they would flow very similar, but after porting, I'm sure it will still be better.

 

We all know the story, every now and again a there comes a member who likes to post information just for the pleasure of being wrong and stirring the pot, or just because he is truely unaware of what is right but still throws his misinformation in everyones face.

The following is an example:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=221948

Anyone notice a trend here?

 

Topic, people!

Well, the reason why I'm so curious is that the SDPC base has narrow but tall runners (where the base touches the heads). That port shape is different from the non-vortec bases. Just kinda curious how it will effect overall CFM through the base.

I will call SDPC sometime today to see if they have any answers.

 

Apparently some people fail to read the rules of the site, I did, but I have to make a statement, when people bad mouth me with absolutely no idea of what I do.

Oh yeah your right man, I'm a big stroke and don't know anything! Just wait until I finish my motors and invite you out to the track, and hand your butt to you, when I destroy your car in the quarter, go ahead flame on me or whatever you want. I don't simply care, I'm willing to back up my work, and stick to it, so go ahead dish out the worse you can, but prepare to get torn a new one!

EDIT
Sorry that I am getting off topic on your post; However; if this was real life, and I was dealing with some of you, I'd be kicking some fanny because I don't put up with people talking s... about me and I get in there face, I don't mean you or 1bad91z, rather some other people giving me S...

 

We are not talking about your car, we are talking about Mike's car. So since you want to tell all of us what you do, what exactly do you do? Also please do not use curse words, this is a family site. If you want to curse use ****. Now that we are done please stop replying unless you have something related to Mike's questions. Sorry Mike, i know i'm off topic too. Please let us know what you hear from SDPC. Good Luck
John

 

So! who thinks the tuning effect of the runner is going to starve the motor past its peak resonance whatchamacallit?

 

Mike, see if your extrude hone guy will pop a few bucks off if i send in mine along w/ urs ...like a GP deal. If he can get 260+ cfm from my SLP's then hes got my business

The fact that I slacked on this set is eating away at me man...im telling you im close to going carb

 

as a matter of fact....guaging interest here


all fully ported plenum, SDPC base and SLP runners for sale. The runners and plenum are polished to a beautiful shine...almost looks like chrome!! Also, Accel 24# injectors, stock fuel rails, stock TB...pretty much a complete TPI system minus harness for sale!!!.....and a 218/224 cam to go with it

any interest here??? we can talk price via PM

 

as a matter of fact....guaging interest here


all fully ported plenum, SDPC base and SLP runners for sale. The runners and plenum are polished to a beautiful shine...almost looks like chrome!! Also, Accel 24# injectors, stock fuel rails, stock TB...pretty much a complete TPI system minus harness for sale!!!.....and a 218/224 cam to go with it

any interest here??? we can talk price via PM

 

Dont give up yet, chevyboy07.

Wait and see if I can organize a GP on the runners. That would be pretty cool. Sometime this week, I call my guy at extrude hone and see if he can cut us a deal on a GP or something.

Any takers on a Extrude hone GP?

 

I do have something that needs to be EH'd, but its not runners. Its a Torker Intake for a 455 Olds.

 

Ok, thats cool. Maybe I can organize like a 10 to 20 item Thirdgen.org GP that way as long as we have 10 or more items, maybe we can all get a certain percentage off whatever we need extrude honed.

If you guys need ANYTHING extrude honed, post it.

I'll ask what discount we can get if we can provide 10 or more items needing work.

Mike