I just got off the phone with a gentleman from Extrude hone. He gaurenteed me that he could make my SLP runners / SDPC vortec intake flow at least 260 cfm but it will probably flow closer to 270 cfm !!

Now that's getting close to mini-ram numbers!

As soon as my tax return comes in................

 

Those are awesome numbers if he can really get that out of them!!!

He gonna provide some flow numbers for proof!!!???

 

Yea, he will provide the flow bench sheet after my intake and runners have been processed.

This should wake up things a bit more!!

I f***ing can't wait!!

260 + CFM AND the torque of Long tube runners!

My heads flow 278 @.500 , it's about time I feed them more air.

 

Heck ya dude!!!

That is awesome news for the LTR crowd!!! How much is it gonna run you to get him to get that flow out of them??? If you don't mind me asking?!?!

 

Heh, wait till you hear the price... thats the major downfall of extrude honing.

 

$_$ Thats your eyes when you hear the price.

I just priced out a set of Pro Topline Iron Lightning heads. 180cc, 64cc chambers. And while the $$$ for the heads is good, I still blink twice at the price of those heads.

 

Just remember you are still rpm limited by how long the runners are, not how much cfm the runners flow. The extra cfm will help but don't think you will stay up with a short runner intake with the same cfm. The best way to make a TPI run like a short runner intake is to make it a short runner intake.

Jerry

 

One more picture

 

And on the car

 

Curious...

So how do injectors 2, 4, 5, and 7 attach to the fuel rail? Why didn't you include pictures of the injectors installed and connected to the wiring harness as well?

 

Trust me, there is room under there and they do fit.
When I put these babies back on and extrude hone the SDPC manifold, we will see what they do

 

I'm not being an a$$ or anything, but isn't flow --> flow? I mean, regardless of runner length it is flowing X CFM? So wouldn't runner length not matter, as long as it is flowing X amount of air? I'm just kinda confused on this...

 

Extrude honing is most likey at least $700 on the low end and im figuring more like $1k when he gets it done :-)

port length has far more to do with the actual tune of the curve than it has to do with choking an engine...........It all depends on what u are going for :-) I imagine a healthy TPI setup flowing 260+ cfm would more thna likely show very good torque and hp numbers, but once again it is tpi the runner length themselves give the curve a pronounced boost that makes supplying the air on the top end insufficient for it to keep making power past 5.5-6k efficiently.

Same debate that goes here for ages, me, I like torque so what if im all done at 5.5 k lol she can go sideways at 40-50 mph when i hammer the gas :-)

The better question is how do u dirve and where do u like the power at :-)
LAter
Jeremy

 

Questions are a good thing that's what this site is for.

CFM is only one small part of intake design. How long the runner is has a lot to do with the RPM range.

This is a link to Tuned Port Basics a good overview of a tune port intake.

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...ntaketuned.cfm

And a link to a Intake Runner Length Prediction calculator.

http://www.bgsoflex.com/intakeln.html

I hope this helps

Jerry

 

JerryWho, did you do all that work to those runners yourself, or did some one else do the work for you, do you have a site with info about them, I have an 87 iroc-z and I'm looking to increase the hp on the stock style tpi intake until My formula 350 project is done. I've seen those actual style runners before, but the cast versions, and yours are all fabbed up besides the basic slp runner, any info would be great.

 

Mike, why don't you take that income return and get yourself a new rear-end instead.

Seriously, stop making it faster, and get the rear end so you can actually use what you've already got. We all wanna know the 1/4 time and dyno numbers, and your excuse is getting old, .

:rockon:

 

Your heads will be restricted even even you do go this route, Mike. I really think you should swap over to the st. ram oru lt-1 style intake for the biggest hp gains.

 

I will keep the TPI, I'm stubborn like that!

The car will get a Pro-charger one day.


It's going to cost $215.00 plus shipping to have the SLP runners extrude honed and an additional $375.00 to do the base.

I'm just going to have the runners done. I already lightly ported my base.

If I have enough coming back, I will do the 12 bolt, but I will be dynoing the car with tax return money for sure!

 

TRAXION -

-If you are reading this thread, what do you think about a set of SLP runners and vortec base that can supply 260 - 270 cfm to the heads?

I dont care if max HP peaks at 5,500. But, do you think that if you had a carb'ed motor making 450 hp, and you swapped to the E H 'd TPI, ya think it will make close to the carb'd HP number?

Also, would I have to add a bunch of fuel to VE and PE after having the runners/base honed out??

 

hey 1 bad....ya know me and you have a very very similar combo.

Actually a couple things u have, that i dont and vice versa.

i think you will be VERY CLOSE to an 11 sec pass if you hook man!!

Check it out: you are 355 vs my 383 HOWEVER u at least have a good TB vs my stocker.

But, i have a converter, slicks and way less restrictive exhaust. You have a bigger cam vs my *close to XE 269* (mine is a super duper top secret level V security clearance custom grind cam LOL)

Our fuel systems are both definetly good to go. I know for a fact my heads flow awesome (i do that for a living) BUT here is where i think i made my mistake.....i dunno if you remember my SLP runner "saga" I was the guy who totally modified the living hell out of them and eventually they were ruined. I welded material around the port enteries, etc to pretty much allow the entries to be as big as my massively ported SDPC base and Plenum. Well, i had to get a new set of runners and they are the "new design"...however they looked like complete CRAP. I was in a rush and ported them a little and tried to get them nice and round BUT i dont think i maxxed them to their full potential :/ I think there is more work i can do to them. I mean they were like OVALS and worse on some ports LOL. Well, i just think my transition entries arent as nice as my other set What are the stock flow #'s from the SLP's anyway?? i tried to look but couldnt find em???!?!??
BTW as it sits this set-up WILL go in the 11's. It was going 12.40's b4 converter, trans, fuel pump, injectors, tune...so im pretty confident. Imagine with a real TB...geez, one day soon itll be a 58 mm

 

actually i need some 1.6 RR's and a 58mm TB then i am "done for real this time" with this car LMAO

ima update my sig

 

Actually, my heads flow 278 @.500 and my exhaust "should" flow WAY more than yours (I run 1.75" longtubes). Plus my cam is bigger, I have a six-speed, 58mm TB, and I ported the crap out of my runners / plenum and mildly ported the base, and I have less cubic inches than you and I dont have nitrous.

ALL that stuff makes for a completely different combo. The end power and 1/4 mile results may or may not be close, but the power train combo is quite a bit different between yours and mine.

BTW, my runners looked like crap out of the box too! I have about 10 hours of porting and shaping on into them.

 

Personally I don't think that you will run out of steam with the 20" runners. Just look at the LS1 guys. They are turning 7000+ rpms with LS6 intakes and are making power and they have 15" runners. Same goes for the 5.0 guys. What the restiction is, I think, is not a big enough runner that can flow enough air. You will lose some bottom end, but nothing compared to what the HSR loses. I think you will make some impressive numbers if the intake flows what they are saying.

 

I agree with what mastrdrver said (see above). It just depends if you can really get the flow you want. Honestly - you should be able to come close to a stock MiniRam when using super-ported SLP runners and a highly ported base. Keep in mind that the base must be ported and ported extensively! Now, with that said - you could never touch a modded MiniRam. My only concern about your present scope is that those flow numbers (~270cfm) don't include the plenum. I am curious as to how much might be lost by slapping on a plenum. Also don't forget what I said about the base ... that is the key.

Tim

 

Hey buddy, I highly doubt that your vortec, stage whatever three, do not flow 278 @.500 lift, where did you get that number your ***?

Victor jr 23* heads don't even flow 278 cfm at 28" of water at .500 lift, out of the box, rather 265 intake, and 207 exhaust, I would like to see your flow chart, and corrected to see the real flow of your heads. Not to mention all the flow in the world isn't going to help when you have a stock type TPI intake, and your expecting to make all that torque get to the ground, you don't need all that torque or airflow to run as well as you want to! Get a steath ram and quit wasting money on the tpi for a better et, you'll get at least thirty more horsepower after initial tuning, and for alot less money.

I don't mean to sound like an *** or anything, But I highly doubt your flowing what you say you are, and if you were, which I don't see possible because vortec heads don't have enough material to port to as much as you say they are flowing, its just not possible. Its like your saying that your heads are flowing more than most of the aftermarket racing heads!

"Actually, my heads flow 278 @.500 and my exhaust "should" flow WAY more than yours"

Thats hilarious!!! And if it was true, you would be able to make over 500 horses with the right cam and intake combo.

 

cronsformula350 -

I was present when my heads were flowed and yes, they DO flow 278 @.500 on the intake side. It doesn't matter what you believe, the above is what my heads flow. And I cant use a Stealth-ram, I have VORTEC heads, remember?

If you knew anything about cylinder head work, you would know that there is more to making decent flow numbers than just removing material from the intake and exhaust ports. I've stated several times all the work and type of work that went into these heads, do a search, and read about it. You may learn something.

It's funny you said that, because my particular heads came from a circle track motor (small block) that made 508 HP at the flywheel, naturally aspirated. It was carb'd though.



TRAXION -

Yea, I know that I could make more power with a mini-ram III, but I want to stay TPI for this car. I dont know how much if any my plenum would restrict flow to heads. I've port-matched it to TPIS big-mouth gaskets and port matched the throttle bores to my holley 58mm. I guess we'll see the before and after extrude hone dyno results. The engineer I spoke with at extrude hone pretty much gaurenteed me 260 cfm from runner, all the way through the base, but said most likely closer to 270 cfm. They will provide flow bench results when they are through.

I just think that it IS possible to get close to mini-ram / HSR numbers with a highly modded TPI while still retaining a ton of torque (like the TPI was designed to do).

I guess we'll see!

Mike (1bad91Z)

 

TPI INTAKE WAS DESIGNED FOR A 305, NOT A 350!!!

Please don't flame me. I don't mean to offend you, but I know a hell of alot more about heads than extrude hone porting the intake and exhaust runners and portmatching. And if you knew as much as you say you do, you wouldn't be running a tpi style intake system, because, what you have on your intake side, still isn't going to compete with a modified 4 barrel intake and throttle body, or a mini ram, or stealth ram on a similar motor. The runner length is whats killing your high horsepower potential. And if you did more research before you built your motor, you could have opted for any aftermarket aluminum head, and stealth ram or even a mini ram, and you would have been at about the same cost if not less than what you have already spent to buy a bunch of aftermarket parts for a tpi. The tpi intake components are the most expensive to manufacture because so much time and machine work is involved to roll out each component, thats why the parts are so expensive.

I still highly doubt that those heads flow what you say they do at 28" of water, I doubt they do. I've talked to my machine shop about the potential of those heads, and there more for a 400 horse street motor, which is about what you have. My machine shop knows heads also, they've been around over thirty years, with a crew that has been working on engines since the fifties, and they build 2700 hp, 6 second motors, not to mention the owner won several prostock championships back in 1996, and several IHRA wins over the years. No-one uses vortec heads unless they have to, when theres afr's, edelbrocks, world, gmperformance aluminum, dart even the iron eagles will flow more than your vortecs with the same amount of head work. Theres also countless other brands of heads out there that will outperform your vortecs. For cheaper!

Enough said.

 

I'm not offended, and I am not flaming you.

With that said, I guess I will type this out for the 50th time.

First off, my vortec heads' intake runner's were opened up to almost 200cc (from what I remember). Cant remember what the exhaust ports were opened upto. Then they had major bowl work done. Stainless manley valves (bigger exhaust valves), all were 5 angled and stems undercut, then they were milled to 62cc from 64cc. Spring pockets were enlarged for comp dual springs, etc.. etc... Not even mentioning the "fast-burn" design of the chamber ........(these really are decent heads). Any good head machinist can get these numbers from a vortec head (in 28 inches of water). Ask your guy again, or ask another repitable machine shop. They will tell you that what I'm telling you is correct.

I got a deal on these heads allready setup for a grand total of $400.00

If you can find a set of aftermarket heads that flow what mine flow or perform even close to how my heads perform for $400.00, then please share with the rest of us!

Yes, I've done MANY hours of research before I built my motor. I also had a budget.

I also know that if I spent more money (that I didn't have) on a set of AFR's, Trickflows, etc.... and then put port work into them, I'm sure they would make more power that what I've got. But again, I couldn't even get a bare casting of an AFR or Trickflow head for 400 bucks, let alone the rest of the parts to put them together.

As far as vortec heads only good for a 400 hp street motor, Car craft got over 420 hp with a mild carbed 350 on a set of STOCK untouched vortec heads. Do the math, stock casting vortec heads flow 235cfm @.500 . That's enough to make over 420 HP right there and doing so naturally aspirated.

Again, not trying to flame you, just trying to inform you with correct information for your own personal knowledge.



Getting back to the topic at hand..... I want to stay LTR TPI for my own reasons. I know there are intake's out there that will make more power on top of my motor than the TPI. I'm just trying to get the most out of a vortec TPI 355 and I think extrude hone is going to be the way to go! I also think that a TPI intake flowing 260-270 (which is very comparable to carb'd intake flow numbers), will help bridge the gap of the people who think TPI intakes just choke a motor. Hopefully my results will change peoples' minds.

Mike

 

You will need to siamese your runners, right before the base then, to get that kind of hp out of your motor.

Also according to math at 28" of water, heres what your airflow numbers can make on hp on the intake side on a 100% optimized motor:

HP potential=airflow @28 Inches of waterx .257 x No. of cylinders.

483 HP=235x.257x8
Victor jr's @ .500 lift=545 for $1250 its hard to beat the performance of victor jr23* heads for the price, not to mention the victor jr's will still make more hp out of the box than your victors, because out of the box a victor jr 23* head flows 207 cfm on the exhaust side compared to the 147 out of box of a vortec, they cannot be opened up that radically without serious money!

Sorry to get off topic, but when I see something a little nutty, I'm going to question it.

ANd still I'm going to question that flow at .500 lift, because with that flow, that means they can make 571 hp at .500 lift. I still don't belive your heads flow that much at that low lift, the lift at which those heads were flowed at was probably between .600 and .700 lift, which isn't what your probably using, and if you were using a cam with over 650 lift, you wouldn't have valve springs to last more than a few miles on the street, because the excessive idling trashes the valve springs, so all this work you say you have done, sounds totally like BS. My dads edelbrock heads that were cnc machined for his 461 pontiac, flow 317 cfm at .650 lift, and thats barely more than yours, and this work was over 2500$ to have done, so I'm still going to question it, until I see some flow numbers off a flow bench. Also vortec heads can't hold a note to a victor Jr 23* head when they are both max ported, and when my victor jr 23* heads flow 285 out of the box at .700 lift, this further illustrates my point that your heads probably cannot flow what you say they do, unless they were cnc machined and have barely any material left. Any fool that would have spent well over a thousand dollars to have a person do a race style head work, would spend well alot to achieve results in the 250 range, so your 400$ for the pair of heads seems like nonsense, and someone would have let you steal those heads off them for practically nothing. I also bet the motor you got your heads off of, had well over 11.5 to 1 compression making it easier to make that 508 hp you claimed. Also bowl work, is in the combstion chamber which you are confusing with pocket work, they are two different things. Bring me back a chart with flow numbers and email them to me, or an timeslip with your mph then I might believe you!

 

Dude........ like I said, it doesn't matter if you believe me. They DO flow what I have previously stated. I got the heads for the price I did. It was a personal favor to me from the shop's owner. They were trade in heads, the work was already done by that shop which gave him a $400 credit for other work when they were traded in. The shop let me have them for the $400 credit that they had in them. And yes, it would be very expensive to duplicate the work that went into them originally. BUT I ONLY PAID $400 for my heads period. That is the only reason why I purchased them. I got a killer deal on a GREAT set of heads. I didn't have to spend 1,000 - 2,000 for a good set of heads. The price was right, the product was excellent, I built what I built.

You are still missing the point of why I chose these particular heads, and if you read my last post completely through, you would have read where I already stated that I know victor jr.'s / AFR's / Trick flows / etc.. out of the box could make more power, especially if those aftermarket heads had additional work into them. But are you funding my project?

I want you to ask ANY repitable machine shop if 43 cfm can be gained from performing all that he been done to my heads to a stock bare casting vortec head that already flows 230 - 235 CFM. I'm sure you will "believe" them. 40 + cfm isn't all that much to get out of a head. I've personally seen a 23* aluminum trick-flow head flow 250 CFM @.550 out of box, then been ported to flow 305cfm @.600. That's a 55cfm gain. You can check it with a calculator.

It is unnecessary for you to reply to this topic unless you have somthing to add to flow numbers regarding TPI runners and TPI lower intake manifolds. Or if you have experience with extrude honing. And by the way, It is also unneccessary to completely knock down the SLP's divider walls all the way to the base just to get 260 cfm. If the are ported to 1.75 " from top to bottom though the runner's tubes, they will flow that and more. That is why the AS&M runners are so expensive. Have you checked flow numbers from an AS&M large tube semi-siamesed runner? Basically extrude honing a set of SLP's will make the same results, hopefully slightly better.

Mike

Have a nice day!

 

did EH give a price quote yet? Also would EH a stock base give about the same flow numbers as a edelbrock or accel intake?

 

Ok,, I’ve had all I can stand. To insult a person that you don’t know,,, to say if they knew anything about heads and how to get flow from a set of heads coming from you is down right hilarious. The highest flowing set of Vortec heads that I know of are coming out of McCoy Motorsports. They claim starting with a set of Vortecs flowing between 222 – 231 on their bench, they’re able to pull out a little over 280 cfm using 2.055 valves. Port cost alone is $1600. An assembled set of heads run $2500. The most I’m seeing in my area is low 260cfm with 2.02 valves (.600 lift) - with the heads flowing in the 218 – 224 range stock (1.94 valves). On McCoy’s bench,,, that might be mid to high 260’s,,,, which is about what he’s getting out of the “stage II” heads ($1200 port work,,, $2000 assembled – 2.02 valves).

I’ve been dabbling in head and intake porting for years,, and it’s amazing to me they’re able to get 280 cfm (even at .700 lift),,, but I’ve never tried,,, nor I have seen anyone in this area go with 2.055 valve in the Vortecs before. But I guess they’re putting in a lot more work than me and the others I know of are willing to put in the heads – obvious by the price tag. I mean,,, come on,, you can spend less than $2500 and get a lot more head.

Brzezinski – nationally known for hidden port work for stock classes,,, that probably have ported more Vortec heads than anyone in the country,,, has this to say about Vortec heads.

>>>>>>>>

http://www.castheads.com/heads_folder/1heads_set.html
Chevrolet “VORTEC” heads
A stock Vortec head flows 218 cfm intake and 150 cfm exhaust. If you are looking for an increase in performance and must maintain stock looking ports, consider our “UnderCover Porting”. An “UnderCover Ported” Vortec head will flow 233 - 236 cfm on the intake and 165 -170 cfm exhaust.
If your engine combination can use additional intake port volume and more air flow, the
intake flow numbers can be improved to the 245 cfm range with additional hidden work.
>>>>>

Their “sportsman porting” unhidden CNC port work cost $1500 with you supplying the heads and they can get 255cfm with the 2.02 valves and they don’t like doing any more intensive porting. That might be as high as 262cfm if your bench is flowing stock Vortec heads in the 225 cfm range.

So,, I’m in that group of folks that have a hard time believing your heads actually flow 278cfm @ .550 lift with 1.94 valves. In fact,,, I can say with near certainty,,,, they are not doing it. Now,,, I believe you believe they flow 278cfm – that’s why I think it’s hilarious that you would insult anyone about what you think they don’t know.

Ok,,, you got a good deal on the heads (maybe), you’re happy and excited about the potential of your combination. I’m happy for you also,,, but dude,,, come on,, it’s time to get some real numbers at the track,,, and or get that thing dynoed so you can see if it’s all you’re cracking it up to be. I’ve been building combinations and racing / tuning them at the track for over 20 years,,, so when you take that thing to the track,,, or get it dynoed,,, I’ll be able to tell you within a few CFM of what your heads flow,,, assuming a proper tune.

Just to stay on topic,,, you can get 275cfm from a fully extrude honed Accel intake, plenum, and cast LTRs - without the plenum bolted on (it use to run $675 for the entire intake system). I would think you should be able to see similar numbers with the Vortec base and SLP runners - with a full extrude hone. The ASM runners flow in the 260 range if I remember correctly. However, bolting them to a base without extensive porting done to the base, drops that 260cfm runner only rating a good bit.

 

The bench that my heads were flowed on flowed a stock vortec head at 232 cfm peak in 28inches of h2o. SDPC and GM advertises Vortec heads at 235 cfm peak (intake). You should know that No bench is going to be the same number. His heads may flow more or less on the other shops bench and vice versa. I'm not going to argue about cylinder heads. I've already stated in several of the above posts that it doesn't matter what you believe or what some other head flows, or what some other shop got out of a set of vortec's.

Do not reply to this topic unless you have something to add about high flow runners / intake bases, or extrude hone in general. Thanks.

To answer an above question, to have Extrude hone do the SLP runners, it's going to cost $215.00 plus shipping and $375.00 plus shipping for the lower intake. Doing both runners and base would bring the setup to about 260 - 275 cfm which is AWESOME for a LTR TPI.

I dont know what they can make a stock intake / runner setup flow. That would be a question for Extrude hone.

 

Can we reply if we just wanna point out that your car is too fast as it is, and it doesnt need the other people's opinions of heads/intake?

hehe

 

LoL, ummm.......... no, only about the intake.

You are one of the few people who has seen some of what the car can do though, so I'll let it slide.

 

1bad, geez, you are coming off a little "a-hole ish" man. Listen, I'm not about to sound off my resume to you, but in any case....

I am not running long tubes like you, I am running the Tri-Y SLP's with dual 2.5" straights and the cut-outs....so no muffler or cat-back is being used on my rig. They are "there" but non-functional in my case.

You have a six speed....well, i can tell you that the Pro-Built unit with the stall is gonna produce the better E/T if all else was equal.

I am at a great loss b/c of the 48 mm POS GM calles a TB, so thats a good + for you.

My plenum is hogged, smoothed as well as my base. The runners, like i said, i couldnt be so aggresive with them this time, but i will "fix em up" some more when i install my new regulator.

So again, I belive our set-ups are NOT "ohh so different" I am talking about the engine combos, not the entire drivetrain.

Anyway, i think our combos are relatively close as far as the HP #'s are concerned.

I have a lot of head flow #'s in my head and DO NOT have my spec sheet on my Vortecs, but i DO remeber they beat Edelbrocks ETEC 200's across the board, by 1-4 cfm on the intake side and SIGNIFIGANTLY on the exh. side. BTW: i stuck with the stock 1.94's but went 1.60 on the exhaust valves w/ a serdi valve job across the board. Also, i only opened my runners out to 180cc. The ETECs are 200 cc. I tried one port at 185 cc and picked up a few more cfm, but i had some concerns about breaking through in the areas i deemed "workeable" so i left the rest at 180cc

So, yeah i think 278 is attainable w/ a very good porter and proper valves. Its TOUGH, but i wouldnt say impossible.

So, "no" i dont have a 278# to claim...

my original intent of this post was to say that bigger does not mean better..yes ur cam is bigger and yes your heads flow more)......but i betcha I'm still faster LOL (motor - motor)


textbooks and equations won't win races....time and experience out in the field is where the most knowledge is gained...along with "going faster"

 

What's up Alex. Dude, I was not being an a*****e, and I wasn't trying to offend you. I have mucho respect for your setup. If you read the whole post, you would see that I stated that our setups may or may not make the same end results (HP and or 1/4 mile times).

You have more cubes, a stalled tranny that can probably shift quicker than me, and you have nitrous. I would consider those plusses on your side in my book.

What I was trying to convey is that our setups are actually quite different in the way of parts and setup (good or bad) on either side. I didn't say that our cars wouldn't perform the same end result because they "could" make same numbers for all we know.

Sorry that you took my reply the wrong way, it wasn't intended to be negative.

Mike

 

I'd like to take a moment and say that Mike is not an a*****e, nor have I ever seen him post like one. Its just a misunderstanding, and Mike is trying to get some serious answers here. So please enough with the 'mine is bigger/better' posts, and let the people post their ideas for mike without having to scroll through a flamewar.

Personally, I'm really interested to see if Mike can pull this off, because I will probably copy-cat it when I get the money.

 

that's what this site is for. most of the time the questions i ask get a cute little email saying "Search the Archives" instead of an answer i can understand. what the powers that be don't understand is that i've already done some research prior to coming here and searching the archives, then i ask the question. so, for me, anyway, this site has become useless - all i get is "Search the Archives". i still float by here on occasion when someone has something to point out.

the current question (despite searching the archives) is how are they going to make the heads flow those incredible numbers? seriously. magic? voodoo? i'm sure it's proprietary and all of that, but a quick, simple answer would do me a world of good. and may help me get to sleep at night, instead of sitting up pondering that question...

 

Thanks mike, I read all of your post, and I don't mean to flame or offend you, but those numbers you gave, are a little out there, for 400$ heads, regardless of your circumstances. And siamesing the runners is going to make more power regardless of the flow, because the air is more readily available to enter the heads. And siamesing the runners all the way down into the intake will help alot. I do almost all my own porting work, including head work. I've ported several plenums, extrude hone ported runners, and right now I'm extrude hone porting, and port matching a 91 gm intake base for my 87 iroc. I know alot in regards to porting and what not too. Siamesing the runners will have the best results when you can, here are some pictures of what I have gathered for you, one of a siamesed big mouth base to about the middle, and a set of runners that were siamesed also, this is a significant improvement over stock.

 

Oh and see, mr 1bad91Z, not everyone is going to fall into all of your talk!

Lets see some numbers, and you can't tell people to reply or not to, unless your a moderator!

 

heres some runners for you!

 

Ahhh, sorry then Mike, yeah i in no way shape or form was trying for a flame war or any of that crap. I am just super anxious as you are to get the car out to the track and have some fun WHILE PROVING THE LTR is a potent set-up!


And also, in listing my goods and bads, etc and comparing to your set-up it wasnt for a "mine is better than yours" purpose, it was pretty much me thinking out loud in trying to figure out if this thing has an N/A 11 sec pass in it.

That being said, the only thing stopping me from running it is a surging issue. My FP is all over the place and i dont think its safe to spray it with that happening (although it feels fine at WOT)

Anyway.....i think between the both of us and some other guys on here trying to break that LTR barrier, we will cause a stir thats for sure

 

Im curious about the tune of the runner and what effect it will have. Like was said earlier, they are still long, and I beleive according to that equation that was stated in another post when you get past 4800~ RPM the air begins to bounce off the intake valve right before it opens which pulls air AWAY from the valve... which is obviouselly a bad thing.

i saw an issue in car-craft this month with a stock TPI intake (but SLP runners) putting down 420~ Ft.Lbs of torque through the entire low end... but when it hit that "tuned runner" spot you could clearly obviouselly see the power just fall.. like any TPI setup. they were seeing VE's of over 100% too, according to their computer...

Im sure someone saw it. I just wonder what a really high flow-Long runner setup is going to do? will low-rpm velocity drop enough to hurt the "tuned" effec? will the "tuned" effect negate the high RPM flow potential?

I cant wait to see the numbers... this is going to be interesting news for long runner runner's.

 

I'll also say that the most wicked TPI I have ever seen was at route 66, it popped a huge wheel stand, and got out of the whole really nice, and then at the 1/8th mile the nova it was running against flew by it and ran a 10.24, while the IROC TPI wonder, ran a 12.35. This also proves my point that all the torque in the world isn't going to help you run a better et, unless you have the hp to over come the torque. Horse Power is torque over time, and huge horsepowe, gets more work done, pushing your car to lower et's, torque is great for a street light racer, and thats about it, if you want to run with the big dogs at the track!

 

Some of us drive our cars on the street too. And like you just said torque is good on the street. Because you saw a TPI run 12.35 doesn't mean one can't go faster. What were the specs on this car? Like you said, HP is torque over time. So if you have a lot of torque you have a lot of power and if you have a lot of hp too you have a nice setup. I think he is going to see a lot of hp and toque.

On a side note, vortech heads are made for good low lift numbers so their .6"-.7" lift may not be better than at .5" lift.

Personally i think Mike is not being an a** at all. I think you guys aren;t being fair by making all kinds of unbased assumptions. Good luck Mike.
JP

 

That iroc had a radical cam, slp runners extrude hone ported to the max, big mouth base, long tube runners, 3.73:1 rear gears, th400 tranny(to take torque). He also ran a comp cams solid roller bump stick, I mentioned the car did a huge wheel stand, too much torque, doesn't mean a great et, 380 hp and 550 lb ft of torque was what he was pushing at the wheels. He needed more hp, if he had 550 horse power, he would have ran in the tens.

Like I said earlier, a bunch of talk and little to show for it, means just that. Flow numbers like that at .500, well look back to what others have posted.

This is at least what you need to run in the low 11's:

 

whoops

 

Just to let you know cronsformula350, you're preaching to the choir. More than likely Mike likes the way the TPI looks and acts on the street. Who wouldn't want to keep the look and have the power? More power to him if he can pull it off....oh well if he doesn't. Having met Mike this past December, I can attest to his being broke and being eager to run it. At this point in time - I think he's full of it...but in the back of my mind is this voice saying "What if he's not? What if this thing runs as well as he preaches? What then?"....

So sit back, get some popcorn, and lets see what turns of this. Because watching a TPI equipped car swat Z06s, Cobras, and Supras is exactly what I'm waiting on Mike to do.

Make sure to post your graphs Mike - I'm lookin forward to 'em.

 

3.1 -

I think you know me well enough by now that I will post any results (good or bad) as results become available, because I have nothing to hide. That's why I get a little pissed about people talking crap about "you dont have this or you are BS'ing, etc...". I not telling people what I have or what I have done just to waste my breath. AND, I'm not here to brag. I'm here to learn as well as to post what I have learned.

Cronsformula350 -

Yea I know, I about shat myself when I was able to pick them up for what I did. The only stipulation was, they got ALL my machine work then and in the future, and they have. They did all my machine work on my shortblock and I've brought several of my buddie's motors over there too. It was one of the few win-win situation's that you run into in life, I guess!


Soon as tax return comes in, so will the dyno results.
I didn't tell people to not reply, I asked people to not reply unless they had something to add about runners/bases/ intake flow results, extrude hone etc... that was what I was trying to express. Basically keep the post directed at the topic at hand.

To all -

I want to stay LTR TPI ! Forget about pics of Holley Stealth-rams, I cant use it, they dont make a stealth-ram base for vortec heads. Also, I'd rather eat crap and chase rabbits before I spend a boat load of cash on a mini-ram. Besides I want to take a LTR TPI 350 to it's limits. So sit back and benefit from my trials and error's and money that I have spent. Like I said, I'm not posting anything to brag, I'm posting information. Who knows, I could very well surprise us all !

And if I dont, I still have the ATI P-1SC to throw into the mix!