Hello Everyone,
I know everyone's probally seen this question before. Cut me a little slack I am new to the board. I teach an Auto Shop in NC and we are wanting to do a class project with a 3rd gen. My question is which platform should we start with with the best factory options already installed. I was kinda thinking about a 87-89 IROC. I am also leaning to 90-92 Firebirds with the WS-6 package. I do want 350 and T-tops are not required. Perfer a 5sp.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

I believe that the 350's never came with manuals.

Is this project simply for learning purposes or is there a goal, like making a fast car or somthing?

 

Well I think it best to give details on what you guys are planning to do to the car. I'm going out on a limb and assuming its not going to be a drag car, because you said you wanted a car with all the factory options. Race cars as we all know are generally stripped. I have a '91 Z28 that comes with a 1LE performance option, much in the same as the ws6, but no 5spds came in those Z's that have a 350. Personally I think IROC's look better than T/A's. And 87-89 IROC are pretty cheap these days. Any way I hope my mindless rant has giving you something to consider.

 

350's were not available from the factory with manual transmissions, so you need to decide on which is more important.

If you want a lot of nice options and WS6 350, look for a Trans Am GTA or loaded IROC.

However, for grins per dollar, any Tuned Port Z-28 or Trans Am will fill the bill, and a few mods to a Tuned Port 5.0 and they are as quick as a stock 350 car. it also gives you the option of finding a manual trans. If you will be doing modifications, this is the way to go (in my opinion).

For just plain go fast, the best combo is a 350 TPI Formula. Of the mass produced cars, the most power in the lightest package.

Good Luck
Troy
So Cal

 

I'd opt for later models, circa 91 or 92. The 92 Heritage edition may be nice. The body seems more rigid than earlier models. There seems to be less squeaks and rattles. YMMV.

But, if it's a tear it up and destroy it, a TA GTA usually has the most plush setup, plush for an f-body anyway.

No 5 spd with a 350, unfortunately.

 

We would like to build a real curve hugger straight liner road race package with A/C...ha ha.

It will be a class project and constantly being tweaked on to perform better. I was just wanting to know the best years as far as the best suspention what engine and so on. The 1LE or WS6?

Thanks

 

TTT

 

Most people will tell you 88- 92 are the golden years for fabled road race style f-bodies. Ws6 suspention package is a good find although rare. Ws6 cars can make your average Iroc feel like a '76 Monte Carlo. WS6 consists of large diameter swaybars stiffer springs and 16 by 8in aluminium rims. This package was available on the formula 350 or the creme de la creme the GTA (or grand turismo americana) model. As far as I know the 1le pakage is strictly a 12in rotor kit with 4th gen stlyle calipers could also be rear discs. This brake package was also an option on top model camaros in the late 80s early 90s. Rarely will you find a car that was ordered from the factory with such a complete gear head friendly option list as to have say ws6 1le and a 350. Another down fall of having sweet options is that 350 means auto trans, rear discs mean open differential and so fourth. Thats the nature of the beast with GM all the cars with the right equipment are so rare that they command a premium price. Happy hunting. I'll tell you though, the minute you buy a thid gen your going to find another you like even with in the week.

 

'87 and later all cars came with hyd. roller cam, 1 pc rr main seal block and center bolt valve covers. Although these are improvements, they are not a huge deal.

'88 and later, they used an adhesive to "glue" the body panels togther as well as the spot welding. The cars are more solid and rattle less, but are still not in the Mercedes Benz category.

Mid '87 the auto trans was upgraded internally.

ALL GTA's and Formulas have WS6 suspension. They can be found in junkyards, so if you don't score one, you can junkyard the sway bars, mounts and springs and do your own.

All 1LE cars I have ever seen were 305/5 spd cars. They came with speciall baffled fuel tanks, aluminum drive shafts, bigger brakes, high rate springs and sway bars (similar to WS6) but are quite rare.

Troy
So Cal

 

ANY T/A or Z/28 IROC is best. They already have most performance parts installed and are the most eye appealing as well...Have fun with the project!!!

Jason

 

I would say any camaro or trans am, Because if it is going to Be a project you will probally be replacing all the factory Stuff that is Wore out form the years of punishment. Find a good bargin with a good Body at a fairly low price take it and Uprgrade the stuff you want. For any Suspension needs like Sub Frame Connectors (Which are a must on any thirdgen Drag or Road) Sway Bars, ECT. Check out Spohn Performance

Great Products with a reasonable Price.!! IMO

Just My .02

 

GO WITH A NON GTA TA. U DONT SEE A BUILT UP ONE AS MUCH AS U DO CAMARO'S OR GTA'S. I GET SO MANY MORE COMPLIMENTS AND THUMBS UP ON MY '87 T-TOPED WS6 THAN I EVER GOT WITH MY '89 IROC AND MY IROC HAD A MUCH BETTER BODY AND PAINT JOB.

 

The 88 and 89's had the better everything and they were still MAF not speed density. That means you can do engine mods and not freak out the computer. I'd also get one with 4 wheel disc brakes. IROC or TA or GTA, I think you would be happy with any of them, course, I'm partial to the Bird.

 

no, i have no idea what you are talking about. 4 wheel disc doesn't mean open diff. WS6 is not rare, and is very similar to the top of the line IROC suspension. And the 16X8 are not rare or WS6 exclusive. And 1LE brakes were not optional unless you got the full 1LE package or the B4C police package.

Anyway, sweet project i wish my old high school had stuff like that. I'd say a nice IROC or T/A would be nice. I also reccomend getting a 350 from the begining, they are easier, cheaper, and more powerful to modify.

 

False. Rear disk meant limited slip diff

 

Start with an IROC, (best handling F body) Do your base line running in stock form. Then as you mod it do more runs to see if/how you improved on it.
For H/S kids I would get the auto trans for a few reasons (clutches for one) tear down and rebuild of the auto trans will be good exp for them and usually more useful than manual (more cars have autos than manuals now-a-days)

 

I have an 88 GTA
It has rear discs and an open diff
273 -1 gear ratio
why are we arguing this?

 

1985 IROC ordered with 4 wheel disk, Limited slip diff HAD to be purchased with it

1991 Formula 3:42 limited slip 4 wheel disk

nuff said.

 

because you said rear discs always means open diff, when is certainly not true. Most likely your car doesn't have the original rear of the posi unit is shot. All real GTAs had rear discs. It doesn't make sense, why would would you be able to get the performance of rear discs or the performance advantage of a posi rear but not both?

87' IROC 9-bolt, rear discs, posi

 

My advice is to fine a car with a good strait chassis and little to no rust. Everything else can fixed, replaced or upgraded.

As for models, I'm partial to 87-92 Formula Firebirds and 90-92 V8 Camaros.

 

I love the "but a formula is lighter" saying...

Yes, GFX add more wieght, but I mean come on, have you people ever held a set of GFX? You still have a rear and front bumper cover so all the EXTRA wieght is just in sideskirts and maybe a lower front valance. 25lbs MAX... I mean the 85-90 GFX were solid plastic and heavier but still pretty light.

Just took mine off of my 87 IROC and was amazed as to how light they actually were!

GFX = SO MUCH HEAVIER = holds no water

 

Well you say you are a first time buyer. I would have to ask what are your concerns in being a first time buyer? What are you looking for? Is insurance cost a factor for you? Will you be modding it heavily or even dropping in a new engine?

Give us as much info as possible.

 

Dante:
Firstly, the ground effects under the doors have steel reinforcements with reinforcing straps to support them underneath, so they aren't as light as you think. I have not taken them off and weighed them, but they are designed to hold a person standing on them. The ground effects bumpers are about another 30% larger, and thus heavier, plus fog lights, etc etc etc.

Also, the Formula did not come with a lot of "bearfat" that most Trans Ams did, such as power windows, power hatch pulldown, tilt column, etc etc. It ads up. Yes, you could option a Formula with more stuff, but I have never seen crank windows in a Trans Am.

I have weighed my GTA, and my friend weighed his Formula, and it was 214 lbs lighter. Both in stock form. That is not opinion, that is the same scale on the same day.

...thanks for coming!

Troy
So Cal

 

The car in the SIG says it all!!! A stock one of these L98 350
700r4 and followed by a borg warrner 9bolt rear with 3.27 gears stuffed in!!!Followed up with the WS6 performance package makes this a no brainer!!! And take the T-Tops off and fly !!IMO best 3rd gen hands down

 

Oh BTW don't forget SFC'S!!!!!!!!!

 

Well I bought my 1989 5.7 tpi irocz for $1500. I mean it does need alot of work. But hey for $1500. FULLY LOADED except T-TOPS. 4 wheel disk brakes auto trans . It only has a 2.77 posi rear though. I don't feel too bad about how it runs considering I gave a 1996 mustang gt 3 cars and Finally passed him @ 120.We were on a disserted road. I plan on a lot of mods for it. But get your self as many catalogs from diff manufacturers. Such as TPIS. If you want a manual trans and a 350 get the 350 and buy a 6 speed from a wrecking yard. Great project for your class.