I finally got it done this past weekend. About 4 weeks worth of weekends between fabricating plenum, injector bungs, rails, and coordinating the time with my dad to weld it all up

The plenum main box is welded together, and made of 1/8" aluminum plate. The front TB plate is made of 1/4" aluminum plate. There's a 1" flange around the top and bottom to bolt and seal the base plate and top on. The total plenum volume is 376 cubic inches. I had read all kinds of theories on what is best for plenum volume. One said go half cubes of motor, one said match it, and one said to go double. I chose the happy medium and wound up where I am. I can always make it smaller to fine tune as needed.

I utilized the stock fuel rails transposed like another guy had done on here, and it worked out excellent I drilled and tapped the holes for my new lines, and 1/4" npt ended up working perfect on the outside, and 3/8" straight thread with the 45 deg. taper seat for the inside of the fittings. All of the fittings are brass.

For now, I plan on using short lengths of rubber fuel line to join my new lines to the factory hard line on the car. I can't find the metric fittings anywhere to duplicate the factory size, so I'll have to replace both sides with standard stuff.

The only thing I'm not happy with is that I went a little to oversized on the injector bung, so I had to use RTV to seal it up. Being on the bottom however, it will only be sealing againsed engine vacuum, not fuel. So I think I will be fine. If not, I'll have to pull the injectors out and get some custom o-rings made up. Not good, because everywhere I've checked has about a month wait to set up tooling and make them.

All that's left now is installing the LT's, manifold, new ignition system, and then starting to dial the new tune in. Doubt we'll have time to fab up the new duals this weekend too, so it'll be open headers for a week It'll be interesting seing if I can avoid the cops on my 90 mile transit a day, for 5 days

 

second

 

last one. I still need to wipe the dust off of it and let the hi temp paint "bake". It should look a little more satiny after that too

 

The manifold is a single plane Edelbrock Victor Jr.

The little flat spot on the rear bottom of the plenum is where I had to grind the weld to clear the dissy cap. It's a little tighter than I planned back there

 

Very cool. The o-rings shouldn't be a problem at all, you can get virtually any thickness and diameter you could possibly need at pep boys, kragen, or some hardware store.

Good luck tuning

 

That Plenum is MONSTROUS!!! I think it might give you driveability problems because the local airflow in that giant plenum would be so slow. But I am certainly no expert. The super ram seems to work pretty good and your plenum looks to be about 2x bigger than a superram.

 

Looks good.

The injector angle looks a bit off, but I have no idea how much or if that might affect things.

 

that thing is insane. well done, very well done...

 

Thanks guys

I -think- the injector angle should be ok, all the research I found said that it only becomes an issue at high RPM's. I won't be revving past about 5500-6000. I'm not completely sure on the plenum volume either, but like I said I can always go smaller with it, but it would be a pain to make it bigger

I can't wait to fire it up!

 

hey shoot a pic of it one the motor too.

 

cool.. looks good...


if you hit all the welds on that box with a grinder you could make them nice and smooth... then repaint it.. would look even better.


looks cool now though.

 

No problem phil, I'll post up some pics when I get it all on the motor

Thanks Mr. Dude, that was all done with aluminum feed wire on a Mig Pak 10. I remember you saying something about wanting to set up yours for that. Works great on the extruded aluminum (like the sheets and bar stock and stuff) But it worked really poorly on the cast aluminum. Not sure if that was because of the thickness of the manifold, or the grade or quality of the aluminum.

When I get some more time, I'll probably grind the welds and sand it smooth. Then I'll polish it up to a mirror shine along with the manifold, rails, and alternator case. Right now though, it's all about making her run. It's been down for about 2 months now, and I'm going into withdrawl

 

Cool! Why did you put the fuel rails on backwards of stock setup? I agree with others on the bad injector angle, any reason you did it as such an angle?

 

The way it sits stock, the intermediate fuel lines and the regulator hit the manifold and plenum. This seems to be the easiest/cheapest fix so far.

The injector angle just happened to work out that way. I have enough room in the lower bung to change it slightly and get them facing straight down if needed. This angle has the fuel spraying right on the bottom of the port in the head, but by the time it travels the 2-3", the atomized fuel should be swept down thru the valve.

 

There's enough reversion in the intake to put fuel just about anywhere.

I'd do something other than RTV, personally.

 

Is there any other kind of sealant that is safe for fuel submersion?

I picked up some permatex gasket maker that said it was, but it's a non-hardening type.

 

Thats the stuff I have used. Its brown colored? I think its #2, but dont quote me on that. Seems to work ok.

 

Yeah, it's a dark brownish color and it smells like the brush on gasket sealer.

It's good that you say that though, I put a decent coat of that over my RTV. So if it holds up, the rtv will never even get touched.

Here's an update too:

I got the headers painted and on, the manifold is on, fuel rails are hooked up, distributor is in, spark plug wires are made and on, and new plugs are in and gapped. It's a pain in the butt working around all the rain we've been getting, and according to the weather guy this is only the beginning for the weekend. Oh well, it'll make things interesting

 

I agree with 88305tpiT/A. That intake is way to big, especially for how you have it set on the manifold. You would have been better off just buying an aftermarket setup. TPIS' MiniRam, ACCEL's Lingenfelter SuperRam, and Edelbrock's intake setups would have been cheaper on the labor and parts ratio than to do what you did. That "BOX" would more than likely cause more headaches than you want. The air that's going to rush in is going to hesitate and be beaten up in that box before it runs through the intake. Try cutting it in 1/2, it might work better, but your injector angle is going to play a large role with this custom setup. If your air isn't flowing right and your sprayin fuel the wrong way, your gonna get detonation when you don't want it. Try it out and post your results. Best of luck to you!

 

Last time I checked this was a hobby, so labor cost = $0.00.

Here's my cost breakdown:

Victor Jr. Manifold- $175
10 ft. 3/8" fuel line- $8
(8) 1/4-3/8 brass npt fittings $4.00
Aluminum MIG wire- $9
Rails- Free
TB- Free
Aluminum sheet stock- Free

So, according to these calculations, I am down a total of $196. Compared to holley's setup with the fuel rails at $600, and lingenfilter's setup with the rails at $1200. Or edelbrock's base, runners, and plenum. Not sure on the price of that or the TPIS, but I can guarantee it's more expensive than what I did.

Fired it today, dialed in timing, and got my idle fuel map semi dialed in. Idles great, and sounds meaner than hell. I did a small kick on the throttle to 2K, and the RPM's climbed like mad. No hesitation or detonation at all. This is with NO tuning above idle yet. If it idles good, then with the higher vilocity air that comes with high rpm, the fuel is going to get sucked right down the runner thru the valve without issue, just like all my research said.

Why would I want to cut the "BOX" in half and reduce my plenum size to stock?

There was a guy on here a while back that went from the lingenfilter setup to a custom setup very very similar to this, and he kept the same ET on a hotter, more humid day, and gained a few mph. Indicating an increase in HP. I might not be quite as well off as him due to the injector angle, but all my research said that it won't make a difference until high RPM. And I think I have proven that correct by the fact that it idles well, when port velocity is slowest.

It seems that the plenum is a reserve for the engine air. It takes what it needs, but then when you punch the throttle, it has that reserve to fall back on until the air starts flowing into the intake catches up with engine demands. Also, because the plenum is so large, turbulence isn't really an issue. The only drivability issues with a large plenum show themselves at idle, but to be honest I'm not exactly sure on the reason.

Oh, here's the sound clip. Right click and select "save as"open headers

 

I just looked at my pics again, and they do look kind of decieving. The plenum is only about 10.75x6.75x4.5 (close, don't remember exact dimensions) , equating to 376 cui. I'm pretty sure lingenfelters setup has more plenum volume than that. With the big pizza box and all

 

the superram was flowbench tested and that's why it is designed the way it is. it is made to provide as close to an equal amount of airflow to each individual cylinder as possible. yours will act no better than a tbi setup. your also talking about a setup that was designed by a man that makes street cars run 8 sec. in a 1/4 mi. there is a reason big companies turn to John Lingenfelter for their performance needs, he is a *** in motorsports. honestly, you might as well have made a flange to put he tpi t/b over the existing carb hole, it would probably run better. what u did is kind of like taking a tbi setup and added a "monstrous" spacer. it was a good idea and i'm not one to put a person down for tryin, just adding constructive criticism. i too have been debating a custom intake for my iroc, but i plan to turbo mine now and that leaves me to change a lot of ideas for my car. if it works then to hell whatever everyone else said, including me.

 

Good point.

Have you seen a victor Jr. manifold? It's a single plane with 8 equal length runners going to each intake port. Edelbrock has done all of the engineering for me already, all I had to do was adapt it to suit my purposes. Air flow properties stay identical, while fuel distribution becomes much better. How you are coming up with the assumption that it's not flowbenched is beyond me. All I am doing is changing the point at which fuel enters the system.

Did you bother to read this comment I made?
"There was a guy on here a while back that went from the lingenfilter setup to a custom setup very very similar to this, and he kept the same ET on a hotter, more humid day, and gained a few mph. Indicating an increase in HP. I might not be quite as well off as him due to the injector angle, but all my research said that it won't make a difference until high RPM. And I think I have proven that correct by the fact that it idles well, when port velocity is slowest."

This isn't a *** in motorsports. He's a hobbiest with an 80's vette who did the same thing I did. Victor Jr manifold converted to port injection. I believe that he has recently cracked high 10's with a N/A 383, while maintaining daily driver status, with A/C to boot.

You do know that Lingenfelter passed away, right?

BTW, telling me that my intake is trash and I should have gone with a different setup isn't called constructive critisizm. Especially when it's clear you don't have a clue on the subject.
:lala:

 

let's get a few things straight since you obviously are taking offense. i never said your setup was trash, nor do i disagree that someone made a custom setup that allowed them to get a few mph and hp out of their motor over a super ram. but you did leave out a few key clues as to how that person did it. there are many tricks on the track that maybe that guy tried differently on a different day, not to mention was it the same track, tires, wheels, etc. and yes, j.l. is dead, may he rest in peace. but before he died, his name became legendary. the man created a business that today has modernized gm power to unbelievable feats. have you seen what the lingenfelter corvette stats are for 2004. He may not have personally built it, but his knowledge was passed to others to keep up the work he once performed. get a grip man. your intake may work great in the low and may have problems in the high, but that still says there is something that could be worked to make it run better, that's the point i was trying to make. i was trying to help. no clue on this objective, perhaps you didn't read what i wrote earlier about i was looking into building a custom intake but have to change the ideas since i want to turbo my car. now why would i do that, maybe it would have something to do with an engine running differently under boost as compared n/a. excuse me for tryin to be nice.

 

First off, I just want to say I don't want you to take any offense to what I am going to say, it is just my opinion on the whole idea and subject.

What you did has been done before, I remember someone on the board doing this a few months back. I do like how it turned out, looks pretty neat. I can't say anything bad or good about performance until you have numbers... but I am guessing you will be loosing a lot of torque, while picking up some horses. I don't know if it will all balance out in the end, but frankly I don't expect much of a change in track times, maybe 2-3 tenths over stock TPI, but I do believe you will probably pick up a few MPH in the 1/4.

About the whole plenum size, or the question of why isn't the TB just on top of the carb flange... I don't really have specific knowledge, but I feel the plenum is better than a straight up TB, it gives you a little head start on air as you mash it down, sort of a reserve as you said. But I can also see the possible problems at idle, with too much air in the plenum (ie too big of a plenum)

I too believe that turbulance is not an issue in this case, as there is probably just as much turbulance by the time the air gets into the runners on our stock TPI engines, or any of the ram setups for that matter. I mean the air is bumping into things, taking sharp turns and getting "squished" as it goes through our runners... basically the same thing in your case, by the time it hits the runners it is getting smoothed out and the turbulance is faiding since it is running through a straight (well sort of straight runner)

The last issue, which I believe may be the serious one here, is the injector angle, you may end up smashing the plume of fuel into the side of your intake runners on the heads, thus it will be atomizing less efficiently, but then again, with higher RPMs I think the flow of air from the side will pull the fuel plume towards the valve and cylinder before it can touch the sides of the runner. So I would guess there would be more of a possible problem at lower RPMs.

Overall I think you did a great job with this project. I would almost be willing to attempt something like this, as I think it would be a fun learning experience at the very least, while picking up a little bit of power, possibly, very cheaply. I hope you keep us posted on the progress, and numbers you put down.

Also did you have numbers before you did this intake? Did you do this intake alone (didn't change anything else in the engine?) I am hoping the engine stayed about the same before and after this intake, maybe the information is already here in the post but I didn't catch it.

 

i just had a neat thought.

the LT1 fuel rails have the same port spacing.... im sure if i poke around i can find a 2nd set cheap...

they might work better then flipped TPI rails.... just a idea if anyone else is thinking about doing this

 

i dont see how anyone can say they did anything like him. he built a plenum, you built a plenum, the similarity ends there. he is not "just" a hobbiest.

did you produce a 720 hp c5 with the street manners of a civic? i think not.

 

Along with the intake I installed S/R Torquer 305's, cam, Hedman longtubes, and annihilator ignition box and coil.

Cam specs are 219/227 duration, 112 LSA, and .471 int/.480 exh. lift.

It's gonna be a completely different animal

Were obviously not thinking of the same car, as the one I am talking about isn't a c5. It's the c4 body style using the 165 ECM.

mjustdie, I'm sorry for taking offense to what you said. I now realize you were trying to help, but this last 3 day weekend was a very very loooong one My original assumption was that you were just a new guy in here to cause trouble

Thanks for the input guys

 

One binky is not talking about lingenfelter. There is someone on Corvette forums that did this type of setup and built it himself.

One Binky -->

Good job, looks good. Get that thing on a dyno and get it to the track so I can see how well it will run.

 

i havent, but if you're willing to fund it, id sure like to try.

 

apology accepted onebinky, and good luck with your setup. personally i hope it does work well for you. it may inspire more people like us to stop saving and hoping and just going forward and fabricating things ourselves. I myself am a fabricator and have worked with many types of alloys and other materials. I don't believe in having something that is mass produced for others to put on a CUSTOM setup. And i'm with mrdude_1, if someone throws me the funds, i'd be glad to build a 750hp streetable car, preferable a camaro of course.

 

Mr dude, you have any pics of what the lt1 rails look like? One of my brass fittings won't seal up all the way After I pressurize the system and let it sit for a minute, it starts to seep a little around the base of the fitting. I may be able to go oversize, but that'll be cutting the wall in the rail kind of thin.

Anyone know where I can get aluminum fittings instead of the brass ones? Then I can braze or weld it in there instead of threading. Unless I can braze aluminum to the brass. Anyone?

Thanks Maroon-iroc, I'm working on it

And yeah, the vette guy I'm talking about is definately not Lingenfelter. That guy is a legend in his own right, and I can only hope to be as knowledgable as he was one day.

The guy I'm talking about goes by the user name "Ski_dwn_it", or something like that. Him and his buddy "corky" got banned here for stirring up trouble, but they frequent the vette boards alot. Those guys do seem to know quite a bit though. His buddy corky is running mid 10's on a large cube small block, running MAF, 24lb injectors and the 85 TPI ECM. Those injectors have to be static, but they work.

 

hey onebinky- ever here of encolonel (in-ker-nel) wire they use for pipe fitting in the field? it's supposed to be able to weld to damn near anything, i used it before, but never on alum. to brass. it's a toss in the air but it might work. check a local weld shop to see if they have any and try on some materials you might have lying around. it's been a few years since i used it so im not exactly sure if thats how you spell it.

 

I'll have to look into that, I think there's a decent welding shop a couple towns over. Thanks

 

You would be talking about the Intakes Jeb makes over on the corvetteforums

this would be the intake on a 434sb in Jesses vette



heres another nice looking intake.

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ton...bum?.dir=/9725


Personally if you clena it up some maybe do a slimer diff plenum it will look better.

Deff use some LT1 fuel rails. heres a picture of a Miniram I just powdecoated you should get a idea of what the rails look like.

 

Yep, those are very cool. I wasn't aware that he was making them to sell now though. Good for him, I hope he makes some good money on them

My dad was able to get the fitting to seal up, so no more fuel leakage either Still can't drive it until I get the exhaust fitted up. My neighbor about 15 houses down stopped over tonight with a smile on his face asking me if I had started the car on mothers day. He said he heard it loud and clear

Here's an example of what this 305 can do. Notice the front end off the ground a foot, with no tire smoke. Those are regular radials too. On my driveway none the less...

:lala:

 

You hiding some hydros in the back homes ??

 

Does that huge plenum clear your hood? It seems really, really tall. BTW, I can make my car do that with a floor jack too.

 

It's not a floor jack, it's on stands I was having some fun with camera angles.

It clears, but it is tight. I made the plenum to be as tall as possible while still maintaining factory hood clearance. In the pic, notice relation between the plenum and cowl. If I had to guess, I'd say I have about .5" clearance there. And I know I have a ton cleaning to do in the engine bay, so no need to comment on that

I'll start a new thread with pics, and info on performance and drivability when I get to that point. (hopefully this weekend with some of the info).

Matt

 

pic

 

Just in case anybody's wondering, "(in-ker-nel)" is inconel. It's basically a stainless steel. I can't speak for how it behaves as a weld wire though...

 

that **** welds like bubble gum but runs like water.
hey onebinky, the intake looks better in the engine bay. just curious, do u plan on supercharging your car, cuz if you do, that plenum of yours would definitely provide the engine with all kinds of air for forced induction. maybe u should try it and let us know how that works too.

 

Thanks

The SC idea has come up for this setup before, but if it happens it won't be until I'm out of school with a decent job and settled. So you won't be hearing about that for at least a couple years

I checked with some welding shops on that stuff, and they said that it probably wouldn't work well with aluminum and brass, but who knows. That kind of stuff can react very different with different metals in different situations from what I hear.

 

did this work out?
looks kinda like this one

 

Yeah, it went through a few more plenum size changes, injector changes, and rail changes. I ended up parting the car a year and a half back, and sold the setup to a guy on the boards here.

 

very industrious......dont listen to negativity, try it and tell us.......pure AMERICAN inginuity..............