14.089 @ 97.12; 2.065 60ft.

L98 10:1
stock 083 heads
ZZ4 cam
AS&M runners
port matched stock base
ported plenum
SLP 1 3/4" headers
Catco cat
edelbrock cat back
fuel pressure @ 46
timing at 10 degrees advanced
stock prom - i have one from pcmforless but it feels slower so i didn't try it
700-r4 - trans go shift improver kit
stock converter
3.27 9 bolt
goodyear GS-D3 245/50 16" 35psi

It was about 80 degrees out. I know i can hit 13s with a little cooler weather. I really would have like a 13.8 but this isn't too bad. I only got 3 runs in so i didn't have time to play with timing and fuel pressure. Those were only guesses for optimal performance. The other problem is i'm still using too much oil even after the machine shop replaced them. Then again the motor only has MAYBE 500 miles on it.

how'd you get a zz4 cam with stock 083 heads?

That seems kinda slow to me??? I went 14.3 at 98 mph with Edelbrock headers, flowmaster exhaust, no cat, descreened MAF, ported stock plenum, a/c removed, and "freshened" stock heads. Meaning new valve stems and a 3 angle valve job. A friend of mine, with a '88 notchback, has the same mods done that I had except he has a 2400 stall, and he is going 14.1's on hot, muggy days. When the cooler weather comes next month he should go 13's no problem cause his mph is 100.?? on each pass.

You've got a cam, runners, fuel pressure up, timing up, compression up, and a ported manifold and only picked up a little over 2 tenths and a slower mph. I think I would give the pcmforless chip a try.

Beware PCMFORLESS SUCKS- They ripped me of, bought chips that didn't work, Alvin said that it was my problem, Sent chips back and forth three times, and none of them worked right ( not even close) Over 2 months of working with them, and ended up with worthless chips. Do yourself a favor- don't take the risk with them, + Alvin is a college student- not a professional programmer, or engine builder. Total internet crap business.

You should be running like 98-99 mph and possible 13.8's with good tune. Maybe even faster. Try another chip or PCM one.

I am running 14.02 at 96 with Stock TPI on a Stock L98 with headers/exhaust, some suspension stuff, 2.77's, and pretty well worn street tires with 2800 stall converter. Get some springs/adjustable shocks and you will be in the 13's easy.

Then get 2800 stall. Very nice stall for TPI cars. I love mine. Brake it up to 2500 rpm and your out like a rocket! That will cut your 60 foots down to like high 1.8's with good street tires. Mine are worn and I got a 1.94. The stall alone should net 2-3 tenths. I think you could see 13.5's on drag radials and some suspension work.

Yeah, thats how i feel. I think my engine wasn't built correctly, i've had several problems with this machine shop. Or maybe it just needs more miles for the rings to seal.

91Z28350 - they are stock flow wise, i'm running manley springs, comp screw in studs and guideplate, valvejob

Yea i have seen plenty of L98 cars with similar setups running 13.7-13.8 @ 99ish

Honestly the PCMforless chip feels much slower and i only had 3 runs so i didn't want to waste one just to confirm is was slower.

Also drag radials won't help me as my traction is fine with the goodyears.

I really need to get it on a dyno to set fp and timing accurately. However i'm heading back to school tommrow so it will have to wait until next summer. I'm sad i won't see my car for so long.

You need it tuned properly and some street slicks. Descent 60ft for street tires, but the tune is way out. Period.

Yea it does need to be tuned, pcmforless just wasn't able to get it done. Also, i'm getting ZERO wheelspin so slicks won't help me.

AMEN to the pcmforless sucks, i got screwed too. and another big AMEN for the fact that i am in college too and i have had to park my car untill spring, it sucks.

check the sig for what my 305 does, i can tell you from experience that a 2800stall should have that car in the 13s. but your trap speed is the same as mine which really suprises me, and also indicates that you are going about as quick as you are going to go, give or take a tenth or so. I think you will need more power if you want to go much faster than a 13.8 with a converter. I also have the stock chip and crummy exhaust, which is about to change, my goal after the said changes is 13.7.

i would say do as i am about to do and start burnin your own chips, and try to get a converter. I got my 2800 Vigilante off a college buddy here for $400. I also noticed that you are still running a stock base, which even though it is ported is doing you no favors on a 350. my buddy added big runners to the stock base on his GTA and he actually went slower, so before condemning the motor, consider your intake setup.

That time does seem alittle slow.BTW which track are you running at?I was thinking of going to Maple Grove this fri.Check sig for the times of my 305.

It was at Englishtown but i usually run at the grove.

Yea, the base isn't helping, a HSR might be in order later down the road. But then again i like torque.

Unfortunatley i won't touch the can until next summer. But thanks for the input.

It sounds close to what you should run IMO . My set up is in my sig .....I planned on running a 13.8@99 ( about 99mph) . But I would be running the taller gears ...and its a 5 speed . Maybe my MHP will be higher ...from the bigger headers ...I dunno . I will let ya know what I run withg mine to ...when I finally get around to it LOL .

I'm thinking of going to Maple Grove this fri.Any chance you'll be there?

Somethings up, when I read your time I was thinking it was a bit slow, but when you said it was at E town, no thinking needed anymore.

It has to have a lot more potential for all the mods you have done, Heck my car ran 14.25@95 at Etown with 140k miles and still 100% stock(just had SFCs from Level 10). So you definatly have some more power somewhere.

Nope, i'm at school in Pittsburgh now.

School at pittsburgh?

Are you at University at Pitt at Oakland? Thats where I will be in two days.

Yeah, get a good tuned chip from fastchip. Heard good things. That should get you in the mid 13's pretty good.

Yea, I'm in towers.

Or better yet, learn to burn your own chips

Yea but seeing as how i'm only with my car 4 months a year i don't have the time or desire to learn how and then tune a chip forever.

Maybe I will see you down there! I am in Pennsylvania Hall. Moving in tomorrow.

Only have your car for 4 months a year? Due to school right? That sucks but some day you should try chip burning. I will do it once I am out of school so I have the time. But for your purposes, get one burnt by someone else. It will do good for now, and then someday you can tweek it to get it perfect.

Definately get more stall. Get a converter like Edge converters. 2800 stall will make a huge improvement but it will make it harder to launch. You may need drag radials then, or just some traction suspension mods. I love my Edge 2800, car just rockets off the line. But I need tires now and LCA's, and my 3.27's put in. With that I will be in high thirteens with stock L98

Looks right about what it should be running. With some fine tuning and launch techniques, you should pick up a couple more tenths.

Did you try the pcmforless chip with a lower fp ?

You need to get a laptop and scan your runs and see whats wrong.

About 5 years ago, I had a LTR setup. Stock tpi, aftermarket heads, low compression. 8.96:1.. bigger cam. but anyway. point is, it ran 13.50 @ 101mph fairly consistantly.

I've had good luck at 50psi vac disconnected on the LTR setups, with the chip setup so PE mv was .890-.900.


-- Joe

I do have a laptop and i have done scans. Its a little rich down low and a little lean in the upper rpms. I have not however tried the pcmforless chip with lower pressure and i have not done a scan with it. The first chip i got from them didn't even start the car. The second one i got the day before i put down these numbers and the following day i left for pittsburgh, so i didn't have any time to mess around with it. With the stock tune i don't get any knock counts. All sensors operate correctly.
Thanks again for the help.

Seriously, I had the dame problems with PCMFORLESS, the first chips sent did not start the car, the Fuel pump would run and not shut off, or the ses light would stay on . Either way the car wouldn't start, And when I did get a chip that worked the tune, and TC lock up was so far off the car was undriveable. Alvin doesn't know what he is doing. More and more stories are comming out about how crappy pcmforless is.

Kennerz, you took the words right out of my mouth. that is exactly what happened to my car, it would not even start so i called him and sent it back. ironically, due to my bank making an error, the check i sent him bounced anyway so i just sent the chip back to him and told him to have a nice day and i woudl burn my own.

I'm usually straight forward with people when it comes to this. If your sticking with fuel injection, and plan on making modifications to your car then you MUST get into prom burning. Otherwise, go ******* with the carb.

Companies like TPIS, PCMFORLESS, and so on make money off people who don't know any better. Once you dig yourself into prom tuning, you'll really get the most out of your car.

anesthes, i've read some of your comments before and i agree prom burning is good and i don't know if you read my previous comments but i see my car 4 months a year. I'm not going to spend most or all of my time with it, burning chips. I have no way of telling if my chips are any good from 250 miles away from my car. My next move regarding tuning will prolly be having someone dyno tune it.

I hear that. My point is just. Fuel injection, from the factory, is not meant to be messed with. Unless you can modify the calibration, results are never really that good.

Dyno tuning is fine, but you'd still need access to the prom. A lot of guys try to play with the Fuel pressure, but you usually end up with rich spots and lean spots throughout. The more a motor is modified, the more the calibration is off. WOT might work, cruise might not, etc.

Just one of those things..

Anesthes, please be careful when you say people don't know any better. I've worked on all phases of third, and forth gen camaros, I performed sucessful motor swaps in my driveway, running full smog,factory EFI, pretty much everything accept transmisions rebuilding( I've done trany R&R), and prom burning. I have a career, and a life; and am a total backyard mechanic on the side. I work with complicated manufacturing, accounting systems. What I'm saying is I really don't have the time to burn and test proms, I understand computers and systems, prom burning for a beginner can take an investment of hundreds of hours to get a tune just right. I don't have time to start a new hobby in prom burning with a blind learning curve. The whole build of my car and it's compoenents have been entirely thought out before any purchase. If you can tune successfully - great, I wish I could tune like Grumpyvette, this guy obiviously know's his stuff. When I had Tom Miller @ turbo city tune my car, I wanted someone who is an expert in his feild, and Tom is a true engine builder who knows how to prom burn, it would take me much longer than I would want to spend get reach his skillset, I want to drive the car- not tune it ( PCM wise)

My $.50

Thats basically all i'm really looking for. This is not a wild setup, cruise is fine with the stock tune. I still get around 20mpg with combined driving. Its a weekend car, car shows, cruises, and racing, that kind of stuff. If i had more time, i would try burning, maybe after school is done.

Anyway thanks for the advice. I know this is a generic response sent to everyone who doesn't burn their own proms. But i've spent plenty of hours researching this stuff and i understand what i'm leaving on the table by not doing it myself.

From what I have read and heard, alot (or most) dyno shops do not tune GM ecm proms.
They don't like to mess with the factory stuff and prefer to do aftermarket DFI setups because they are more straight forward tuning parameters.
Is this fact or hearsay?

Yea, it seems that way. But i know of a few in my area that do it. Actually most won't tune anything, unless its a carb of course.

what do you guys recommend for a completely stock gta auto to run a 13.0 flat! so far i have 24lb injectors and lite weight crank and alt pulley. what else should i get?

On a STOCK GTA, to run 13 flat??? Nitrous maybe. Or a very steep hill... maybe more like a cliff. You'll probably even get better than 13 flat then.

you can try all the stuff in my sig. My best with these setup is a 13.21. The only other external engine no power adder bolt on I can think of adding to my combo is an aluminum ds. If your set on get a 13.0 it might be alot easier to just go with a power adder or a larger cam and head swap. good luck

I see two things that raise a red caution flag to me. One is the 10:1 compression ratio with the stock iron heads. The other is the 10 degree base timing. I guess a third would be the stock prom. It is quite possible with that combination that you are getting "knock" and the computer is pulling timing. This would account for your slower than expected times at the track.

You might want to look into getting a scanner or a laptop with the proper program and hookups so that you can see what is going on. I bought the Auto-Xray scanner from Summit and I'am quite pleased with it. I can see the knocks and the timing being pulled from mine. Good Luck. Allen

like i said previously, i have hooked my laptop up to my car, and i'm getting no knock

TPI-Formula350-
your car is super bad!

i'm looking at some rims does anyone know if the zr1 rims are light or heavy compared to the stock ones?

TPI Formula 350 - How is the prominator pro chip that you are using?

its great i'm running the ARAP bin. in the car right now. Prominator is awesome I can download any bin i want in seconds on the fly with a laptop. Do a search in the DIY Prom section for details on the Prominator

Hey tpiformula350, where did u get that prominator from, Im gonna be getting a chip for my comp to and i was gonna get one through summit and ive heard on here lots of times that its better to burn your own chip, but i wouldnt know where to start. So from one long islander to another help me out man

Awesome. I think I'll replace the Hypercrap chip with a prominator.

Sounds like the way to go.

Regards,
G