where do i stand? is this a hack? I did this as part of a fi install. I cannot get to both sides of my car in my gararge so a tank drop was out, my driveway is about a 25 degree incline and i no longer work in the street because i want to live. I was also chasing fuel delivery problems and figured this might help.

 

2

 

Laiky-I think it looks good...its neat/looks safe...
Yeah I know it was not "crash tested"...but neither is all the other aftermarket stuff we throw on our cars either...
I guess some will say if you get rearended hard enough..the plate could pop out or something...I don't know..

 

Not bad. We normally use GM body clips for the bolts rather than self tapping screws but that looks pretty good.

 

i didn't have them at the time, i do now. i just havent put them in yet. I was contemplating aircraft style nut plates but again time is always short. Since my car is no longer a daily driver i'm hoping to spend some weekends doing a number of detail upgrades

 

also, if i had to do it again i would hole saw the corners, eliminates and potential stress raisers. I did not know how close the tank was so i gradually cut through with a grinder. Hindsight being 20/20. i should have cut a smaller hole and checked for clearance then hole sawed. Either way the pilot bit will come VERY close to the tank if you dont loosen the straps.

 

Have you had any troubles with your sending unit? Does it still work?

 

Trickster is in Illinois to? Can I meet him to?

 

no trickster isnt in illinois ...i was just being funny

 

laiky,
How do you seal that ridge in the middle of the floor, You are using a flat plate?
Any fuel vapor issues?


anesthes,
Do you cut holes in customer cars? I just want to make sure I am reading this right.
If so where do you work?

 

That Moroso trap door is too small to have any benifit.

 

The only way that I can see this not being a hack job is if there was an actual frame fabricated around the perimter of the hole and have it welded to part of the frame work of the car. This would provide the car with some structural integrty to make up for what was removed. I think that there also needs to be some actual weatherstrip to seal the hole. The cut should als be sanded smooth and the surface painted.
However I do not see enough space to accomplish this.

 

The term "customers" is very loose here.. I own a shop, and I do very very very minimal sidework. The shop (2 bays, 2 lifts, etc) is for MY toys.

But if a friend or a frienf of a friend calls and asks for something custom, I may do it.

I "Cut a hole" in my car a few weeks ago. Yep. Driver side battery tray, 4" hole for the air cleaner plumbing off the blower. Ran the air cleaner down in the front behind the fog light.

Wait a month from now when I cut more holes for the intercooler! You guys will be really upset with me. But, I expect to be running 125-128mph in the 1/4 next season so


If your wondering if I'm a mechanic full time? *** no! I grew up at a dealership until my family sold it, and that was enough of that field for me. I went to school for software engineering and have been doing that for 10 years. I'm also a reserve Police Officer, which I enjoy better than both cars and software, but it pays the least of the three.

-- Joe

 

im not into cutting the car anymore after what ive read. i dont think its a hack job if done right and an access dor is installed (the ONLY thing i would be worried about is structural suopport but a roll bar can fix that...) i did have a couple questions though...

First - what did you do to the exhaust to get it out of your way???

Second - all i have is the pump...no harness or anything like that. just the metal cylindrical pump....do i need anything else?? (the reason i ask is because Racetronix that sells aftermarket pumps for the tpi cars sells a aftermarket fuel pump harness too...heres a link)

http://www.racetronix.com/product/RX..._Pump_Kit.html

 

I mentioned this before, but there are lots of parts that would be easier to get to for replacement by hacking away at the car and this is the only one I see people doing. I call it laziness. Unless you have made sure that the car is safe if it is in an accident, make sure I'm never in it and I'm never near it. I can just imagine what those plates look like after an accident, thirdgens fold like an accordion in relatively minor rear enders and bend in that area. Instant access to the passenger compartment, great idea. Very few of these I have seen are even remotely done well, most are like the first photo posted with saw marks halfway across the car. Maybe for a race car, but a street ride it makes absolutely no sense.

I'm sure Darwin will take care of those sooner or later.

 

Did you remember to take any pictures?

 

I love posts like this. It helps lighten my day.

I'll be honest here, I've done it both ways. The first time I did the job, I dropped everything. Pulled the tank out on the floor and put the new pump and assembly back in. I spent a good half a day on the job from start to finish, including dinner and 2 Toot'N'Totum trips. After all said and done, the float was stuck, call it careless on my part, sure, I was young and in a hurry. I put up with it for a while, but when I finally got tired of it, I HACKED it up. Not proud of it, and I do plan on going back to frame it with a door, but it did turn half a day into about an hour.

And this is not aimed at anybody particular, but I wish you guys wouldn't use the term lazy so loosely. At the time of the "Hack," I worked full time job, a part time job, and was a full time student. Sometimes circumstances don't allow for car troubles, so you do what you can to get it fixed.

But, when it comes down to it........

To Each His/Her Own

If you have the time and tools to drop it all, I recommend doing it this way. If you don't, do it the other way. Is it structuraly sound, its arguable. It hasn't been tested or documented, so who really knows. We can fight about it all we want to, if you're like me, I enjoy debates. And the issues of fumes, carbon monoxide, etc... leaking through. I'll tell ya, mine I IS a hack job, but I don't smell gas, I don't smell carbon dioxide (even with the cut out open), and I thank *** with Hereford feedlots 45 minutes away, I don't even smell cow sh**. (That was joke for some of you too serious people). My only really concern with the way I did it and several others, it the rubber fuel line. They leak, maybe not now, but they will.

Just thought I throw my .02 cents in.

 

mabey im young and dumb but my 86 iroc needed a fuel pump years ago and w/ a lift and power tools it took me 2 hrs to fully change everything....most of it had never been removed. anyways while changing the pump i noticed the car had been cut befor, thank *** if you ask me b/c i had to change it 3 weeks later when the new pump went bad. took me a total time of 10 minutes to yank that carpet up and unhinge the sheet metal cover that they made to change the pump...... hack job my azz if you ask me. its creative enginering. why spend 3 hrs when you can spend 10 minutes. oh and yes since then i have done this exact same thing on 3 friends f- body cars. it doesnt take even an hour to make all the nessecary "adjustmants" to have this procedure done right and looking nice. i put a piece of sheet metal on a small henge and us a piece of 3m foam as an insulator and latch it down w/ 2 small self tapping screws. no fuel smell...gets the job done easy w/out time consumption.

 

the great debate will never be solved but can anyone answer my questions?

 

From reading on the website, it sounds to me like you're going to need the harness also. But maybe some one here that has some experience with the same pump can chime in

 

I have changed two tanks in these cars, one in an 87 firebird, one in an 84 Camaro, and its not that bad. The only problem I have had is the firebird and camaro both had ground problems with the gas gauge afterwards, but I live in an extremely corrosive enviroment, so I am sure it has something to do with that.

But I hate doing it. I did it without removing the shocks and springs because I didn't have spring compressors, and let me tell you that makes to an interesting swap.

 

joe...when you did your swaps did you need a harness??? this is all i have and i need to know if this will plug right up or not

 

I only changed the FP in the Firebird, V-6, the camaro I just changed the tank. However I am thinking about doing a TPI swap, and from what I read if you do the in tank you need to get the proper wiring and plug in for the tank, or an inline Fuel pump, which is the route I am going to take.

 

You'll think its not a hack job right up until the point fuel enters the passenger compartment.

I can see doing this on a race car, or maybe if you spent all the time you'd spend swapping out the pump by dropping the tank on making a proper fuel pump access door (like Nissan, Dodge, and various others do), but I have yet to see anyone doing that and therefore it is a hack job. Calling it anything else is just trying to make yourself feel better. Also, using a compression fitting isnt a good idea either, where are the flared connections? Non-existant, thats where they are. I've even seen heavy use of only hose clamps... another bright move on a 50+psi line.

When you guys start cutting into your firewalls, floorboards, fenderwells, etc to get to things like plugs, heater cores, fuel filters, oxygen sensors, and other various components easier than sliding yourself under the car then maybe I will not call it a hack job anymore. I cant think of one single person who has done any of that, and yet cutting a fuel pump door is 'smart' and 'not lazy' but not drilling a few holes in the fenderwell to get to the plugs (something that everyone changes way more than a fuel pump) is totally lost on everyone... or something.

 

i find plug access to be just fine.

 

How can you compare plug access and fuel pump access. The last I checked, you don't have to drop the front end to change the plugs.

 

I ain't taking sides here, but I don't think I'd want 17 sharp points aimed at my tank. Reminds me of the Ford Pinto.

 

BOOM

 

If I wasn't lazy I'd go and find my objections to it b/c it's a rant. Mine have more to do with the job very rarely being done right. As for the sharp objects... meh. I can see an objection, however, in most all instances of that section getting encroached, or damaged, the tank would have already gotten it aforehand. :shrug: And wtf, you guys left me out of a capn'coke session? I'll remember that next time General you little beeotch!! My official position now is...

 

There are many many reasons why i think cutting up the car is a hack just to install a fuel pump but as stated above being done correctly is hardly ever seen in this ...

As for the capn' coke I will remember ya next time sorry for that....LMAO

 

OK I was just passing through this forum and seen this post.WOW I cant belive how crazy this is.I HAVE done this to a 94 firebird along with building and installing a 8 point cage and stroking the motor and adding nitrous.If you cut between the stiffners you have plenty of room to pull the pump out and whatever else you might want to do in there.I even put a diamond plate hatch back on it.Yes it will take about the same time to do this as it would to drop the tank but will the pump ever have to be replaced again?Probably so so the next time its time to change the pump we will be driving by you guys laying on the gound wrestling with a fuel tank,exhaust,lines etc....I am an aircraft technician/inspector by trade and this is in no way hack.The pic posted above is defintily hack though.If you do it right this is a very smart,time saving mod.

 

I had the misfortune of having to replace the pump on the wife's 91 'bird at home in the garage. As a mechanic with ALL the tools no way I'd ever consider it again. IMO it's a PITA. I had a bunch of difficulty getting the car high enough, had to bend the neck and since the last muffler guy decided to weld the mufflers I literally had to use both feet and "adjust" them so they were out of the way which mean't another trip to the muffler shop
I work on imports for years before moving to GM and most all of them had access ports. Call me old or whatever but next time either it will be towed to the shop or I'll seriously consider one of those "hack" jobs myself..

 

What airline do you work for???

 

Do you live in Illinois too? We have gotta have a thirdgen party. Other than Denny's

 

Your on the wrong board to be preaching logic. You have too much competition with the "professional mechanics" also known as Jiffy Lube employees.

Good job on the cage btw. Looks nice.

-- Joe

 

 

Mechanical Engineer
ASE Certified Automotive Technician

Jiffy Lube tech I'm not and never will be, repaired many of thier mistakes though, stripped out drain plugs, broken sending units I've seen plenty of there work.

 

So, you can relate and appreciate my frustration with some of the posts around here then?

My father needed an oil change, so I told him to wait until I got off duty (reserve officer) and I'll do it after the storm. (I rent a shop to tinker with my bird/friends cars).

Couldn't wait, so he went to Jiffy lube. They charged him $90 for the oil change, and justified it by saying "there was lots of sludge, and it needed a flush".

"flush" ?

-- Joe

 

I agree.

The last fuel pump I did in a 88 TA took me two hours to do the right way. If I take my time it takes me about 3 hours or so with just normal hand tools. One time when I had a friend helping, we did the fuel pump in about an hour 20 on his 91 Z28 (JaysZ28)..

It doesn't take long to do it the right way.

Kat

 

I thought we had finally killed this topic. But.......
If someone were that afraid of changing there pump, or was going to change it that often, why not do an inline pump? No body modifications neccesary.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=278038

 

Is there any one who would argue that that picture in the link was not a hack job?

 

No, we allready pointed out the right way to do it. And the wrong way is obvious.


-- Joe

 

Inline pumps are nothing but problems.

-- Joe

 

Maybe there are some people that do it right, but I havent seen one yet. Go take a pic if you did. I have another like this at home, different than these two. There was even a guy who chased the fuel lines all the way over to the shock tower. Now THAT was pretty. And thats what most people do (at least every example I've ever seen), and you wonder why I call it a hack job?

 

Really? I've been running one for 11 years. Whats supposed to happen to it?

 

11 years !? Sheeet. On my Z28 it wouldn't last 11 months. (Holley inline). My buddy, same problem on his maverick.

Even the vortech booster pumps gave me fuel drop issues on my Formula. Finally switched it to a intank-only walbro and all those problems went away.

Maybe it's only a issue when you really need a lot of fuel?
I was running 36# ford injectors static. So thats like 48 gallons per hour..

-- Joe

 

I'm running 30# injectors at about 85%.

 

Well i have no idea how old this thread is, but I thought I would chime in. For the record I have not cut my car or replaced the fuel pump YET.

The one thing i have not seen stated at least very well, is the practicality of having easy access. I wil take a moment to toot my horn. I have put 4 years and numerous paychecks into my GTA. Tooting over. As I was driving home from work the other day with the paint shining in the sun and 383 singing along, my car decidied to quit without warning. After checking all fuses and checking for spark. I checked the pressure port on the fuel rail after cycling the key a couple times. No pressure and I could not hear the fuel pump run when cycling the key. I will say I would of gave parts of my anatomy away for a door that would of allowed me not to have to put my ride up on a flat bed. Also I did not like the idea of leaving my ride on the side of the road. With a door I could of called my wife to pick up a pump and my emergency tool kit and be on my way.

I am still considering my options, but being a "degreed" professional as stated in earlier posts, I have not found many draw backs to adding a door. As long as the hole is kept minimal and does not bisect any ribs or changes in the sheet metal. The lines are reattched using high pressure fittings. NOT compression or hose. A NHRA spec access door is used or better yet a door from a production vehicle. You know it may take longer to do a door correctly, but the next time your ride needs a pump, you will be smiling ear to ear, because you will know that changing the pump is as easy as popping the hatch and undoing a couple of fitting.

I think I have talked myself into a hatch.

 

I replaced mine by dropping the rear. It was hard.