I have read post for the longest time now saying how hard it is to install a fuel pump in or cars, I installed a new Walbro tonight expecting to fight with it the whole way. I had the whole thing done in about 3 hrs! The only thing that took forever was finding one of the tank strap bolts that I misplaced. I can't understand why you guys cut up your floor to replace the pump. I can probably drop the tank out in the same amount of time. The only advantage that I might of had is the use of air tools. I was even able to leave the exhaust wrapped around the axle! It was loose from the cat and all the hangers though, it allowed me enough room to move it over to the side. It is a job I wouldn't enjoy doing twice but all in all it isn't that bad. Guys please think before you cut.
Not trying to stir up some emotions just want to post this for the guys that don't know which way to go about replacing the fuel pump.

 

Amen!

Two fuel pumps swaps here, and no cuts in my trunkwell.

Nice job dude.

 

you took the time and did it right.

 

It gets quicker and easier with practice also. First time with hand tools and frozen bolts it was an all evening project. Second with hand tools was three hours. third with hand tools in a junkyard wasone hour, only had to dissassemble though. Fourth time with power tools I am hoping for an hour to 2 max.

 

finally some guys with common sense...LMAO..

i get a real kick out of these guys on here that put all kinds of money into their cars swapping in newer engines and lowereing suspensions bigger rims and tires exhaust and then when it comes to something like a fuel pump they decide to half *** it and cut a hole in thier car and call it a mod...LMAO

its a hack job plain and simple...LOL

ive been trying to tell people constantly that it isnt that hard to drop the tank and do it the right way for quite a while now....

thanks for posting a thread that makes sense for once instead of asking how to cut up your car to "save you time"..LMAO in installing a fuel pump...when in fact it would take longer to do it the hack way by the time you cut thru your floor and fuel lines in my eyes...

ive looked at a couple thirdgens for sale and when i look at them i pop the trunk and feel the carpet to tell whether it has been cut up under there and i have found 2 in my area as of late and pulled the carpet to look under it there and they were horrible looking ....


i guess congrats in in order for doing a job right instead of hacking it up ....LOL

 

Thanks for the kind words guys.
I am not the kind of person that half asses his work. I just couldn't beleive how many people hack into their cars like that. I think it would probably take you longer to fabricate the hatch then it would to do the job right.

 

Funny story that I forgot to tell:
When I was dropping a fuel tank at the junk yard on a Camaro I had the tank finally down when I realized by looking above the tank that the person (previous owner) had cut a whole in the trunk. I had time so I put the tank back up and tried to take the sending unit out that way. What was this guy thinking!? It took me longer to take it out throught the trunk only after enlarging the hole. Even then I was worried if the sending unit would still be good.

 

yeah thats nice isnt it ...LOL

and these guys still insist that it isnt a HACK JOB!!!!.....LMAO

 

You guys doing this on jack stands or a lift?
On jack stands I would imagine it being a bitch...regardless of how many times you practiced..not to mentioned if its in the winter time with a ****ty surface to do it on...not everybody has air tools either...
We'll comdemm those that half-*** a fuel pump install....yet a rigged LT1 intake with a half-*** setup is okay....

Sorry, But I don't see anybody jacking a car up dropping the rear swaping the fuel pump on a bad surface/cold winter without good tools in three hours....plus no junk yard in my area even allows jacks on the lot...
You guys either have lifts or a place that allows you to safely do this job..and not everyone has that...

 

no lifts just a couple jacks some stands and air tools...i couldnt live without my airtools nowadays...im spoiled...

as for conditions yes i could see it being a pain in the azz doing it in the snow in your driveway for sure but id rather do that than cut up a perfectly good car wouldnt you????

 

How do you jack the car up enough that you can get the tank down...does not sound safe...No I would not want to cut the car up or course...
But I'll be honest...i did this myself a few years ago...it would have worked well if the fuel lines did not run the way they did...
But you know you get in times where money is hard to come by and you want to get your car on the road,because its one of the few things you look foward to in the day....now I can afford to pay someone to do it right as I don't have a nice area to work on my car...people don't hack just to save time is all I'm saying.

 

if you jack up the car with a good hydrolic jack and use some good jack stands it goes up plenty high enough to get it out of the car...

as for wanting to drive the car i can relate but id rather not cut my car up no matter what ..LOL..

time or other wise ...just me thou ..i guess

 

Didn't think it was that easy...(still don't)..seeing as a T/A will rub its airdamn//front bumber to get it that high off the ground on jackstands
But maybe ...I don't know...in the end its all hot-rodding..guys cut up 60's corvette's,and the such to build up combinations...
If your afraid to do something to your car...your in the wrong hobby.

 

never said i was afraid to do anything to my car for sure..LOL

if you look into owning more than one set of jack stands that would help too i guess all you have to do is put the car in the air high enough to get the gas tank down ...its not that difficult....

 

Just stating in general....we are all hacking the cars really...they came fron the factory a certain way and we are changing them...whether its cutting metal/or changing cams...
Nothing personal...If at the time I knew how to do this I would have.....I still don't and would not want to in a gravel driveway..
And to be honest...if it was cheap and easy to cut a hole in the floor and swap a pump..many would do it....you know they would...
hot-rodding is hacking.

 

I understand your point now, but I'm not sure I agree.

I differentiate between engine mods, versus cutting holes in sheetmetal near liquid gasoline and gaseous exhaust. Here's a couple of failure modes that come to mind:

Car gets rear-ended, tank ruptures, fuel catches fire, and that stupid hole in the rear floorpan unzips...interior of the car gets washed with burning fuel.

Or even better, the hole isn't sealed, so the cabin fills with carbon monoxide and the driver dies.

Either way it's another chapter in "Origin of Species." Only takes out the car's owner and occupants, so I'm OK with it.

On the other hand, I worry about hacksters modding their steering and brakes. These guys can cause collateral damage when their work fails.

 

That is what I did at the junkyard. The car was sitting on two rims already. The ground was covered with large gravel. I had only hand tools and knowledge of how to do it and fast. The nose cone does not hit the ground. Just jack the rear up and put the stands under the front of the LCAs or where the slot for the bottle jack is. Please, do not say "this would happen" or "you would have to do this" if you have not done it. It scares people away from the right way, not to mention a fuel pump install around here can get quite pricy. Argue all you want about this, I will tell you I have done it and experienced that. In the winter I still work on my car, I just nice and cozy in my carharts.

 

yup carharts and some warm coffee and plenty of breaks.....LOL..

frost bite sucks but its not as hard of a job as most of these guys make it out to be that cut up thier cars to install a pump....its as simple as removing bolts and replacing them if its too hard to do then maybe they should rethink owning a car that is 12+ years old..

 

I did my install outside on an extremely windy day in my parents brick driveway. It was about 60 degrees out and I had a one piece insulated pair of cover-alls. You can get the car high enough with a jack and the nose does not hit!
I think DON 88T/A is one of those people who does not have a passion for cars and doesn't enjoy working on them.
Sure they hacked up the cars of the 60s but everything that was hacked was either to improve the design or make it faster. I wouldn't consider cutting a hole in my floor either of those. If you use high quality parts and do the job properly you should not have to do it again for a long while. I hate lazy people that want to take the easy road no matter what the outcome is.
Here is an example of why cutting the floor fo my car would have been disastrous.
I had been smelling gas fumes ever since I owned the car. After researching into it some I found that there was a problem with the filler neck joint splitting, I assumed this to be the problem. When I dropped my tank there was a split right near the sending unit. this crack was large enough for a spark to get inside and make for a bad day.
I will post a pic later.

 

I have jacked the car up plenty of times...and it looked like if it went to much higher it would rub the air-dam.
I still see it being a chore of getting the rear down enough to get the tank down...on jack stands.
Yes fuel pump installs are pricey...guy proved my point thanks...maybe one does not have the funding nor a condition to do it properly..hence why one would be tempted to try it...
You can seal the hole up with insulation (or sheeet metal)
A bad filler neck could leak on the exhaust as well....if you have sparks under/around your fuel tank you have other problems...
I don't recomend cutting the floor up though because it really does not work that great...the fuel lines,the way they run makes it impossible not to have to cut them too..not a good thing.
I could care less about a hole in the floor...you por 15 it and seal it...big deal..
I also would not recomend anybody jacking a car up in bad conditions/surface...as I have plenty of times and its not safe period...especially when your going to try to wiggle something out/back in... Like said the car's are old and hard to remove stuff the first time.

uh...btw I like working on my car quite a bit actually and since I have never met any of you please refrain from comments on my character/work habbits..thanks

 

60 degrees is like pants and short sleeved shirt whether in Illinois! Are you sure it was 60 and you had cover alls on? I might sweat to death, and I only weigh 165lbs!

 

It might of been a little cooler, It is pretty warm for Oh weather too. I also wore the cover-alls because I was rolling around on the ground.

 

um our cars are unibody u cut a hole in the floor it will weaken it. do it right

 

Figure I've done half a dozen or so pump swaps between mine and friends cars. Usually in the 3-4 range taking my time and its the same whther in the driveway, or on a rack at work...

No biggie, heres an extra tip, unbolt the fuel and brake line clips on the drvr side of the well and get some more rear end drop


later
Jeremy

 

no doubt 60 degrees is shorts and tanker weather...LMAO

but seriously DON 88T/A have you cut a hole in your car and thats why your defending the idea of doing it so much????

 

I don't recommend cutting a hole in the car to change the fuel pump because of the way the fuel lines are...if the fuel lines would disconnect right at the tank...yeah...I did it a few years ago because I was strapped for money and a manual I was looking at was for older thirdgens that showed the fuel lines having clamps not to far after the tank...it would have worked well..mine was a later model and the fuel lines were diffrent...
So I ended up having it done later at a garage that cost some money....I had a bad area that was not safe to jack a car up and move stuff around...I put some insulation around the hole and no problems since...had I known the fuel lines were a problem I would not have attempted it....but **** if the lines were easy to disconnect yeah,a small hole that can be sealed up and you could change pumps anytime you wanted...sounds good to me...It was stated that fuel pump replacement is pricey work...yet it is supposedly easy...if it is so easy why is it so pricey to get it done...that dosen't add up.
I'm not lazy...far from it I work 6 days a week and have not taken a week off in over two years...so getting time to work on my car is very,very tough.
I think thats what I'm defending more than anything...not everyone has the time or money to do things and they try there best to make it,and on this thirdgen site ,there is name calling and assumption of what people are like and it gets old...people cut up the front of there cars for custom intakes/rigg intake manifolds/...we would all be still driving model T's if someone didn't go out and try diffrent things....all I asked was how the car could be jacked up without hitting the air-dam...I replaced suspension parts on my T/A and it was a bitch braking those bolts...I just see doing all of this a little harder than your all making it out to be...yet you all make it sound like everyone and there mother can crawl under the car and do it in an hour or two....i could care less what anyone thinks of what I did to my car...i admitted I did it...if it had went the way I thought it would have it would have saved a ton of money and time.

 

1. yes it does its time consuming not difficult...

2. yeah and those are hp mods...LOL how is cutting up your car to change a fuel pump going to make it go faster??

3. couldnt agree with you more there are alot of things that have been done on trial and error that have improved the car market these days but i doubt cutting a hole for a fuel pump is one of them

4. only if removing bolts and replacing them is hard

5. id say more like 3 hours if you take your time maybe 4

 

The 4oz of metal you cut out saves weight..(kidding)...All I'm saying is that whether your cutting metal/changing cams/putting on diffrent body peices ect...its all in the name of the hobby of working on a car making it diffrent.... mods to cars don't have to be limited to making them faster...maybe if they make another f-body they will have the fuel pump outside the fuel tank...because people like me tried this and it did not work...that could be progress.i did not cut a hole in the floor of my car to make it faster...i did it because I didnt (and still don't) have a safe area to do this kind of work...i don't like laying under jacked up cars very much... I do it of course..but I really don't like it...and on eneven ground it flat out scares me. Does not mean I'm in the wrong hobby I just don't feel like being crushed by a 3500lb car.
If my pump goes up I paying some one to fix it ..as I have a very tough work schedule/and at the moment its my daily driver..I f I had nice level ground good tools and another vehicle I would be all for getting into the car more.like i said if the damn lines had been the way they were on earlier models it would have been a neat trick...I learned the hard way...I was just showing why someone would consider it since you all were wondering why someone would cut a whole in there floor. I'ts not because I'm lazy/or hate working on my car it was of the circumstances..
I didn't mean to come off at a jerk in this thread(and I don't think I was to be honest)..but if you make comments on me without ever even meeting me I'm going to give it right back to you...I just couldn't belive it was as easy as its been said to be...I've replaced suspension parts on my rear and they were a bitch being corroded and all..and it seamed doing the pump swap would be pretty tough...I never doubted it could not be done..but I figured the air-dam would hit the ground..I have jacked the rear of the car up enough that it has touched rubbed the ground before,and I'm thinking your gonna need the back of the car up pretty high to get the rear down enough to reach up and get to the tank.Its the internet so I take everything with a grain of salt.
So okay it can be done in a decent amount of time with no clearance problems/and the cutting up the floor thing is not productive,which I conceded a while back..alright then.

Take it easy guys...

 

DON 88T/A,

I have watched this thread as well as other recent threads on this subject. I have not replaced a fuel pump in a Thirdgen...yet...but I think the real issue isn't the fuel pump...but rather certain egos of the proponents of one side.

These cries of "hack job" & "you are sacrificing body integrity" are funny, at best. Will the car crinkle up like a pop can if in an accident? Obviously if there are factory access doors in other vehicles, it is a horrid idea to retrofit into our platform.

I don't really care about this issue, I just laugh at those who can't even see the practicality of "the hole" Apparently, if you have spent time considering cutting a hole in your floor, you need to be committed....

 

im not totally against the idea if its done correctly with a nice trap door and not just pop rivited back into place or as bad as some others ive seen ...only real issue is lazyness most of the time when a job is just as simple as bolts and hoses? why is it so difficult and the arguement about it being a hard job to do in the winter well isnt any thing your going to do on your car if you dont own a garage...LOL.

as far as getting under a car on uneven ground yes i do agree with you about that not being safe or stable but cmon now if your too afraid of getting under a car to work on it then you dont need to be driving anything but newer cars then ...no offence

heres a pic of a really nice botched HACK JOB ....LOL

 

I actually did have my mom help me.....she made me lunch and told me when the filler neck was all of the way back in by the fuel door.

 

 

Crap!! And some people call that a "mod"??

FWIW, I'm not totally against the access door either. If I were to do one, I would drop the tank anyway to do it right, and make it look professional.....not a 20 minute cut and splice job.

 

Cuz it takes me 15 minutes to do it, and that includes a beer break.

Some of us fast guys experiment with differnt pump and injector combos. Which is also why a lot of us ditched TPI.

-- Joe

 

Sure it will. So will a fat girlfriend.

 

Thats what cracks me up about some of the members of this board.

Nissan was smart enough to put an access panel over the sending unit, I'm sorry that GM was not, an I'm sorry some "Mechanics" are also not smart enough to correct this design flaw.

But whatever.

 

yeah thats what cracks me up about some of the members on this board too....they dont own a nissan they own a camaro or a firebird ....

i guess its like this if you cut up your car to put a fuel pump in it then you will come on here and defend the idea to the death ...

or if your a person that gets enjoyment out of doing a job well and the correct way and just take the time to unbolt some bolts and drop a gas tank then well you wont have a new hole in your car that is unnecessary ....LOL

i guess its what ever you want ..

if you want a car that isnt going to have a new place to rust or new place for fuel lines to possibly leak then go ahead and hack away
but if your like most of the other guys and gals here just do the job right...LOL

 

So, they don't have the option of making the car better? Wow.


"LOL"

I think modifications to make the car easier to work on is fine. If a smarter manufacturer (Nissan, toyota, etc) did it, then what. Is GM exempt from good design?

So now the metal will immediately rust and lines immediately leak?

There is a difference between working on cars, and rebuilding cars. Eventually you'll figure it all out.

-- Joe

 

nope never said it would immediatly rust or lines immediatly leak ...stop trying to start a flame war by putting words into my mouth...LOL

you dont know who i am or what i do how can you say i dont know the difference about rebuilding cars and working on cars...LMAO...

wow i guess eventually ill figure out why people see it necessary to flame on others for doing a job correctly and not HACKING up their cars...LOL

 

LOL That is funny! I think that me and thegeneral have "rebuilt" "restored" "reconditioned" whatever word you want to use, more cars than either of us can remember. Never, not even once, did we feel the need to cut holes to make jobs easier. Some jobs suck on some cars, end of story. Take your time, do it right, and have a sense of accomplishment at the end of it.

Allow me to paraphrase your quote

"There is a difference between working on cars, and hacking cars. Eventually you'll figure it all out."

 

Well put ljnowell

 

Your missing the whole point, but I guess thats what I should have expected here on the TPI board.

back to diy_prom I go.

-- Joe

 

yup guys on the tpi board and others arent as smart as the guys on the diy_prom boards...LMAO.....

 

I frequent the Diy_prom section quite a bit, maybe one day I too will be smart LOL
Oh well no matter what someone says there will always be someone who thinks differently, just a fact of life.

 

Aint that the truth. We just arent smart enough to half *** jobs, we insist on doing it right.

 

 

And if you were really smart like me, you would build a Mega Squirt and write your own code. Back to the mega Squirt boards for me.

General, ljnowell where in Illinois are you located, I am starting to feel left out! It is funny how people are coming in here with the distinct purpose of arguing for the sake of arguing (is that a real purpose) and try to prove us wrong or show we are stupid. I guess that it is a point for Tibo, General and ljnowell, aka, guy with a wierd name. And all three of us are from Illinois. I bet the next thing they will say is "there must be something in their water."

 

Why? the '749 running $60 works just peachy for me. Same with my home (well shop) built intake: http://www.singleplane-efi.com


No. The "stupid" thing is the ignorance in believing the only way to do something is exactly the way the poorly written service manual tells you to do it, and ignore the fact that other companies have developed a better design.

In my opinion, anyone who considers a superior design a "hack" is just an absolute moron. I'm just AMAZED someone would consider a professionally crafted access panel, and quick-disconnect fuel fittings a "hack".


It's not my fault your narrow minded. I'll keep on living life finding and learning better ways to do things. You guys enjoy your basic '70s engineering.

-- Joe

 

Anesthes,
I said that because you made it sound like we were stupid and you had to go to the DIY PROM boards because you were smart enough to go ther and we werent. So I showed you that I am smart enough for you and the DIY PROM boards by saying that. It has nothing to do with the integrity of the 730, 749 or 165 ecms.

Why are you trying to belittle us? I do not think I said anything offensive. What does that remark about 70's engineering mean?

We do not believe that there is only one to do something. There are two in this case. If you get to the root of it, people make "trap doors" in there car because they do not want to take the time every time to drop the tank. Call that what you want to. I think that they thought of that in the 70's, but there were not many cars running around with fuel pupms in the tanks that people were trying to hot rod.

I don't recall ever calling it a "hack?" Did I? From what I have seen though it would be hard to cut a large enough opening to pull out the pump/sending unit. There are also some structural barces above the tank you might have to cut through. That is why a person made the comment about loosing some structural strength.

In your last posts in this thread it sounds to me like you are trying to push your point be belittling people. Please try not to. It just turns into an argument. I was trying to have a little fun when I was talking to general, not upset you.

Why is it that you don't even know me and you are calling me Narrow minded?

 

OK...using duct tape, chicken wire, window screen, etc is indeed doing a hack job

See, I can be flexible too

I just can't believe the amount of posts over such a silly topic. I understand how some newbies could decide to be lazy and use a Sawzall or torch to cut a quick hole in the floor, along with blowing up the car, so this thread could provide important public safety info...but I don't think it has yet

If I changed FI running gear as often as Anesthes, I would do the removable access panel and quick disconnect fuel lines too!