I am moving from an old vbelt system on an old 305 to a newer TPI 350 that I'd like a serpentine system on.

Has anyone configured a serpentine system without AC or AIR? I just want PS and ALT. Is that even possible?

If it is, where is a good source for parts for a serpentine system. (any online?) My local junk yards are very very scarce on thirdgen's with v8's.

thanks!

 

I did it. You have to change the tensioner to a ribbed pulley instead of the flat pulley that's on it, use a MUCH shorter belt, and change the routing. I'll try to get some pics of mine this evening and post them up....no time now, I'm on my lunch break.

Your best bet on the serpentine parts is the classifieds here. Guys are always parting cars out and you can get good deals on stuff. You can also try eBay.

 

I'll have an AC delete pulley in a few weeks if you want that. I'd liek to get $35 shipped out of it. I'm going to go with a custom serpentine setup to relocate my alternator and remove AC and AIR pulleys. I need to get some money for the alternator bracket.

 

Here are a couple of pics of my current belt routing. You could easily chop sections off the pass. side bracket, (all you need is the tensioner,) I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

Try to ignore the nastiness....

 

I know the intake is leaking oil, but I don't see the point in fixing it when I'm just gonna stick a StealthRam on there this summer anyway.

 

That is awesome, thanks! Where did you get the reverse groove pulley? What would I look for in a Junkyard or gmpartsdirect.com?

Also, do you know the length of your belt?

 

Hey, that is pretty slick. How does the pulley like running with the v-grooves facing towards it (instead of against the flat backside of the belt like it did originally)?

 

Any parts store will have the pulley that is needed... Thankfully, most every pulley uses the same standard bearing (203-FF)..

 

thirdgen88 is right. I just called Advance and asked for a 3" 6-rib idler pulley. I had to do some minor grinding on the tensioner arm for the pulley to clear properly (since it's a plastic pulley it has "spokes" where the stock steel pulley did not.) I didn't even need a spacer behind the pulley...the grooves lined up great right-out-of-the-box.

The ribbed tensioner pulley runs just as smoothly as it ever did. It doesn't "bounce" like you see some tensioners do, and it holds plenty of tension on the belt.

I don't remember the length of the belt. It's been over a year sicne I did this, and at the time I just took belts off the wall until I found one that fit (I work at a shop and we keep Gates belts in stock.) I want to say it was around 68" but I'm really not sure.

 

You should make a panel that bolts where the A/C compressor used to be and put in a couple of underhood gauges there (coolant temp, oil pressure, fuel pressure)... That'd be pretty cool..

 

Not quite sure exactly what I'm going to do yet, but there's a company that makes various mounting brackets, and they make one to relocated the alternator to the pass. side about where the smog pump used to be (I think its a bit above there actually). I need to get some open space in front of the heads for some coolant lines (LT1 head conversion), so I have to get the accessories as low as possible.

I already have no A/C, and I'm going to get an electric smog pump off an LT1 car and wire it in so it only is on to provide air to the cat when the computer would normally divert air from the stock pump to the cat. I don't think the manifold lines are that important, and all they do is make things ugly.

 

TheGreatJ.....:hail: :hail: :hail: that is beautiful and exactly what i was looking for. i didnt want to use an a/c delete pulley and i konw someone on the board got away with using the stock tensioner pulley (the belt grooves were on the flat of the pulley though) but you getting a new 3" 6 groove idler pulley seems much safer.

IIRC the other member that deleted the a/c and smog but ran the belt over the tensioner used a 66" belt.

Duron...any new news on the setup to move the alt to the SMOG pumps location??? links?

 

anyone know where to find that idler pulley or a part no.?????

my local autozone's didnt have any/didnt know what i was talking about (go figure)

 

I just picked it up from Autozone today. Mine is made by CompressorWorks. Part number 45971. Looks like you have to shave a little off the "fins" on the back of the wheel. Easy though and fits good.

 

Where'd you get that part that keeps the radiator hose from touching the belt?
I need to get one of those,
look at what I had to use on my car,
http://www.transamws6.com/pics/formula/hsr3.jpg

 

With my next paycheck, I'm going to buy the necessary bracket (its only $50). The only issue is you have to use an alternator from '87 or prior...which isn't a big deal to me as I have to replace my alternator anyways. My next check will buy me a new alternator and the bracket, so I guess I will consider that the second step in preparing my car for the big swap. The first step will be removing the AIR/SMOG pump...tomorrow

 

*knock knock knock* Come on, we need a link

 

Heheh.. basically its this bracket. Requires an '87 and earlier alternator, but with the '88-up pulley for the 6rib pulley instead of the 5rib.

I'm basically going with IROCZZ3's setup. When I get the bracket, I'll put an idler pulley on it to give the water pump more contact area. For beginners I'm going to just chop the driver's side accy bracket down, and eventually do what IROCZZ3 planned as well and go with a bracket from that same company for my p/s pump.

 

J, you have the belt running on the tensioner pulley??

 

dperk thanks for that info. i went to autozone last night and they had no clue what i was talking about....go figure.

zepher...i knew those brackets were good for something

duron...is there a specific reason you have to use the 87 and prior alternators???

Red.....yes he has it running on the tensioner pulley and changed it to a ribbed pulley since the ribs of the belt are on to of the flat of the pulley.

 

Ya, but it looks so ghetto. I need to find the right one, the one The Great J has on his car.

 

The bolt pattern is supposedly different. I'm going by what IROCZZ3 said. I'll have that bracket within 2 weeks for sure, though I may get it this week if I end up not buying this set of headers.

 

That's not as ghetto as the setup that was on my '91 GTA. The PO had spliced two flexi-hoses over the alternator body with a coupling.

It was ugly looking.

 

Zepher.....As far as I know there is no "right" one. I made that little holder out of a small square chunk of 18ga sheet steel. I just cut it so there was a 3/4" square tab at one end, bent it down 90*, and drilled a 3/8" hole in it. Then I sort of arced the peice so that it followed the shape of the hose, and put it under the head of the long alternator bolt. Looks good for a 10-minute fab job, eh?

CamarosRUS.....you went to AutoZone.....of course they didn't know what you were talking about. I remember that my pulley is a Dayco part, but I don't know the number. I know the 3100 V6 (i.e. '96 Grand Am) uses a 6-rib tensioner pulley though. Maybe that one will work out.

dperk.....I opted to shave the rim off the edge of the tensioner arm instead of notching the pulley spokes. I didn't like the idea of weakening the plastic pulley, no matter how little.

 

well i went to autozone and got the one that dperk gave the part number for. worked out excellent but i still am not happy. im getting rid of the tensioner pulley altogether and getting a bracket for the alternator so i can slide that and have that act as the tensioner.

however with this setup i was running into the big problem of the belt hitting the upper rad. hose so i decided not to chance it and route the belt differently. over the tensioner, under the waterpump, over the alternator, then around the p.s. pump and crank back to the tensioner (i think). so that way its not close the rad. hose and instead of the 66.5" belt i was using i think ium going to have to go with a 68.5".

 

I considered routing mine that way when I pulled the A/C, but I didn't like the lack of contact area on the P/S pump and crankshaft pulleys. It might be fine, but it might tend to slip and squeal when it's wet out.

My current routing provides 90*+ of contact area on the alt. pulley, almost 180* on the P/S, and the W/P and crank both have well over 180*. My belt never touched the hose, but it WAS closer than I liked which is why I made the bracket Zepher asked about.

 

yea there is a lack of contact area but i think (hope) ill be alright. someone on the boards routed the belt that way and said they didnt have any problems.

but im stuck between a rock and a hard place...as of now the car wont run because the belt touches the upper hose so i have to get a longer belt and route it a different way. but when i switch to the HSR and a taller water neck it should clear. however i have to drive it before i drop the new engine and HSR in. and the sliding alt. bracket seems like a good idea BUT there is that concern of the lack of contact area and with that bracket there might be a lack of support for the alt too, just asking for it to break off.

 

That does look good. I thought it might have been a factory piece.

 

did the conversion the other day parts needed are gates 6 rib belt 6pk2095 and gates 6 rib idler pulley 38008 which is 70mm in diameter shaving a bit off the rear fins of the pulley with a dremel tool is advisable i run the motor runs great the top radiator hose clears only if you have a holley stealth ram installed with tpi maybe it wont clear

 

just finished the engine swap, I have the 68.5" belt and the 6 rib tentioner pulley. The belt fits great. Heres my question, how do you get that tentioner pulley off so that the 6 rib pulley can be installed? I have the Chiltons manual that says to use a breaker bar on something, but on what? I dont see anything on the tentioner I could put a half inch drive over. A bit lost here.

=\ the only thing holding me up from having the cooling system running with the engine, while I wait for a response I'll go install my shocks and springs.

Thanks in Advance Guys!

 

you need to put a 1/2" ratchet or breaker bar in the hole of the tensioner to hold it and then take a socket a remove the one bolt that holds the factory idler pulley on

and just an update....with my entire SMOG and A/C bracket removed and my belt routed over the alt, around the PS, under the crank, and under the waterpump back to the alt it has never slipped once, even in serious rainstorms

 

Ya, what CamarosRUS said, just remove the bold that holds the pulley on.



Camaro, can you get a picture of your setup for us? Maybe a belt length too!

 

the part no is worn off the belt and i didnt keep the box, but just take a string and measure if you decide to do this. i had to get a custom alt bracket made (pic 1) and the pics might not be clear because of my intake tube but i have a 58mm tb and its a PITA to get the stock intake tube back on. but here it is

 

pic 2

 

Someone must have put an aftermarket tentioner on this car because there isnt that 1/2" hole for a breakerbars square end. on top all there is, is a little piece of metal that comes out and curves up. other than that, no place to put the bar on to, there is just the torx screw and the one bolt for the pulley.




Mine definately doesnt look like the pic higher up in the postings here.

 

It should look like the picture that theGreatJ posted first. In the upper left area is the light grey tensioner. At about 2 o'clock on that item, you'll see a 1/2" square hole that accepts a 1/2" drive breaker bar. Just below that item is the pulley you need to change. You do that by removing the one bolt that hold it in. It's in the center of that pulley.

 

Funny I just did a serp swap on my 73 vet and did the same belt routing but didn't bother to change the pulley, no problems so far but it is a lower rever (5500 rpm's). Belt runs true with no wobble or movement, not sure what the long term ramifications will be on the grooves riding on a flat pulley.

BTW

What hose is that you are using? I am using a straight 90 degree water neck but I cannot change my jets on my carb through my quick change jet bowl in front, blocks the driver side opening.

 

Heres my tentioner b4 the engine rebuild.

 

well you dont have to use the ribbed idler pulley, im sure it wont hurt to use the flat pulley but i just didnt choose to do that. and i cant tell anything from the pic, its too blurry. can you take another or the tensioner close up?

 

That is an aftermarket tensioner; the bolt that holds the pulley on should be a left-hand thread (meaning clockwise rotation to take it off)...

 

Well, you were right, left hand threaded, all set, was afraid b4 i would break something if it was right hand threaded, so I took the chance with a breaker bar and she torqued it off good.

Thanks guys =)


the belts on now, was a 68.5" and I do have to fab up a bracket for the rad. hose, would be a major problem without it.

 

Why do they have reverse threads? It just sounds like a problem.

 

To keep the bolt from being backed out by the drag on the tensioner bearing. If it was RHT and the bearing locked up, it would spin the bolt out, shoot the pulley off in a random direction, throw the belt, and leave you stranded on the side of the interstate in the middle of nowhere at 3a.m.

Those of us running a ribbed pulley will be SOL if the bearing locks up, we NEED it to be RHT. Maybe I'll drill and tap mine.....







.....but I doubt it.

 

Wait, so with that bracket I could move the alternator (if i got an `87-older one) down to where the smog pump was?

 

Wow, I haven't followed this thread in a long time. I have pictures of my setup somewhere. And yes, the alternator would be level with the waterpump, about where the smog pump was. Removing the 12lb passenger side stock serpentine bracket was a plus too Only problem is you have to use a breaker bar to tension it from time to time as I don't have an automatic tensioner anymore. Not a big deal though. I don't have a whole lot of water pump contact area, but it only slipped a bit in the winter. Now that its warm out its not a big deal. Didn't ever hurt anything, just sounded annoying as hell.

Need to use an '87-style alternator but with the pulley off an '88+ alternator. Was perfect for me because my alternator was near-dead anyways, so I got a new '87 alternator and took my pulley off my stock one and bolted it on the new one.

I'll try and dig through my backup DVDs for the pictures (reformatted computer a few weeks ago).

Didn't have a problem with the setup, even up until 6300rpm when I spun a rod bearing in my stock bottom end!

 

Here's a pic looking down at the alternator mounting.

 

Here's a shot of the engine bay from the right

 

And a better shot from the left

 

The engine bay looked much nicer than that once I got the LT1 heads and intake installed and got rid of some more crap under the hood (heater diverter valve, etc.). Putting the plug wires underneath the headers makes a HUGE difference too.

I used a Kelly Springfield 530K6 belt or something like that. Whatever belt is 53.0" long and 6-ribs. I think 530K6 is the right part number.

When I take the driver's bracket off for the engine swap, I'll cut the bracket down a bit to make it look a bit nicer than it does.

Also I don't remember if I mentioned this above, but I had to cut down the spacers that I got with the bracket. They are designed for an electric water pump and need to be cut down to work with the shorter height of the standard water pump. I don't remember how much I cut them down to roughly, but it was easy to figure out with some rough measuring of the block and water pump bolt surface height. With this bracket, you use two long bolts to go through the alternator bracket, through the spacers, through the water pump and into the stock water pump mounting bolts.

I'm not using any extra bracing on the alternator, aside from the stock black spacer-type thing between two of the bolts (not on all cars), and the alternator doesn't move a bit.