83ho86tpi

Im wondering about 305 times and HP for TPI w/out any boost, natural aspiration.

What combos do yall have and what heve been your results?
How much power have you squeezed out of your 305?

Im getting ready to put my 305 together in my motor class at school. I have a hydrolic lifter comp K kit with a 212 218 cam that gives .449 .456 lift, 112 seperation and their steel roller tip 1.5 rockers. Block is 40 over with stock style pistons. Heads are 416's with full porting and valve job.

I cant think of anything else to do to the motor / heads that would be cost effective. I am still open to some last minuite ideas.

turbobike

MY 305 is no killer, actually mostly factroy engine stuff 87 TPI WS6.

it made 252rwhp, runs 13.90's (street tires) at 100mph.

UN-ported stock base and runners, Pocket ported heads, Compcam 2030, 1.6 roller rockers, over-the phone chip by Ed M., AFPR, all freebie mods, Hooker shorties with 2 3/4" complete system....

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

mine's not a barn burner either, but runs good for what it is. i really need exhaust and chip tho. i dont think a 13.7 is out of the question for me once i get my exhaust and chip stuff goin. i read on here a few months ago someone was claiming there was an LB9 goin 12.9, i asked more about it but no one replied. i would guess the baddes N/A LB9 is prolly in the mid 13s.

BC GTA

I have no times to post but here is mine. I am the original owner of a 1989 GTA 5.0 Litre, 5-speed with T-Tops. Recently, I got a rebuilt replacement 5.0 Litre from GM. At that time a Comp Cam 206/212, .480/.487 110 LSA was installed. Shorty Hedman Hedders were installed with a new Y–Pipe. Previously the catalytic converters were removed to a 3” pipe to a Walker Dynomax Super Turbo Muffler. A K&N air filter and Bosch Mass Air Flow Sensor were installed. I have performed a throttle body coolant bypass. It has an MSD Pro-Billet distributor and Super Conductor spark plug wires. A new LUK clutch was recently installed. I have a Wilson gear reduction starter and Bosch alternator. Planned is to open up the stock air box, port the plenum, runners, ports into the manifold and port match the gaskets. At that time a Holly Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator and SVO 19 lbs/hr fuel injectors will be installed. I am considering a 160 degree thermostat and switch to turn the second fan on sooner. I am researching installing Comp Cam 1.6 ratio roller rocker arms. Then a chip will be burnt for the ECM. The car was recently repainted.

brutalform

BC GTA, What induction system are you running? A 110 LSA on a TPI? Are you planning on having someone "burn" a prom for it?
You might be better off checking out the DIY Prom board.

TunedPort 335

Mines definitley not the baddest, but its a fun motor.

Mild comp cams "264" its .210/.220 duration, 480/480 lift, 112LSA. Stock "081" LB9 heads, stock untouched base/runners/plenum/throttle body, stock stamped steel rocker arms. Stock 19lb injectors with 180k on them. Crappy hypertech chip. Umm...stock suspension for the most part, full weight with A/C, emissions, etc. 2.73s and full exhaust.

I ran a few 13.4's with a tranny that doesn't shift at "optimum" rpms. Not too bad i guess.

I'm lookin for low low 13's or possibly high 12s this summer. My 1/8th is there now i just need to perfect my shift points.

83ho86tpi

Its great to see some 13's from a 305 tpi. That is where I hope to be when everything is all put together. I have not heard of a NA 305 tpi in the 12's but I guess anything is possible if you spend enough $.

I wanted to get a time slip or 2 with my old motor before I take it out, but I decided not to because I plan on using it in another vehicle. I dont want to press my luck with it, especially since it is original and has a heatlthy pan / rear main seal leak that needs attention.

BC GTA

Other people have commented on my LSA of 110. I have discussed this in other posts in other threads. I would like to know the source of the commonly held belief that the minimum LSA for a TPI engine is 112. My set up has lots of power and acceleration and idles very well for what it is. I am not disputing the minimum 112 LSA rule, because people here know a lot more than I and I value everyone's knowledge. However, I can only relate my experience.

My induction set up is currently a bone stock system that came with the GTA when I bought it new in 1989. The only difference is a K&N air filter and a Bosch mass air flow sensor. When the time comes I will either have Jet or Fastchip burn a new PROM for me once all the engine modifications are done or I will learn to do it myself. I still have not decided on which PROM option to use yet.

cottonpicker

I went to the track last night and was not happy. I ran a 15.9 1/4 mile only had the car 4 weeks . its a 305 tpi with 700r4. i don't what to do. I had .46 and .62. rt. please help me.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

The 110 lsa on a fuel injected car is a myth if you know how to tune it. With your short duration, the 110 lsa is a non-issue when it comes to overlap. The problem is overlap, not lsa.

BC GTA

Yes exactly. I have been educating myself on camshaft specifications and what they do to engine operations; however, I am not a mechanic or automotive engineer. The commonly held belief is that if you reduce the LSA you increase value overlap and beyond a certain LSA this overlap will cause rough idle. This is maybe due to low pressure in the cylinder not pulling in enough fuel/air mixture and even pulling some exhaust back into the cylinder on the intake stroke due to the exhaust value staying open a little longer. However, value overlap is a function of both LSA and duration. One could keep the same value overlap with a lower LSA by decreasing duration. This should theoretically push the power into the higher RPM's. As I understand it the main benefit of value overlap is the effect of savaging to pull more fuel/air into the cylinder from the vacuum created by the exhaust rushing down the exhaust port and manifold/headers. This is caused by both the intake and exhaust values staying open at the end of the exhaust stroke and the beginning of the intake stroke. This is most pronounced at higher RPM's with freer flowing exhaust and intake systems. In my case the LSA has been reduced significantly from stock somewhere about 117 degrees to 110 degrees, while the duration was kept the same. Actually, the duration was reduced 1 degree each on the intake and exhaust lobes; however, this is probably insignificant. Although, since the duration effect on valve overlap is geometric rather than arithmetic progression due to the shape of the lobe even a 1 degree change may produce significant change in value overlap. What this should do, I surmise, is to not change the power curving but increase high RPM horsepower through my higher value lift and scavenging. I was advised by a representative of Comp Cams that a good PROM chip could smooth out the any problems with this camshaft. However, I am not an expert on this subject.

TunedPort 335

Theres gotta be somebody with quicker timeslips than me

Grim Reaper

The reason for the 110* LSA myth was it usually required some eprom tweaking. Cam manufacturers didn't want you coming back and blaming them when it needed the eprom tweaked to fix.

My buddy just changed his cam to a solid roller of 248/256 .050 duration with a 110* LSA. He didn't go with a lower LSA (though I suggested a 108* or MAYBE a 106*) because he was scared of the "tuning issue". I told him, let me worry about that. He will tell you that he now wishes he had installed a cam of maybe "one step" up in the duration (another 6* added .050 duration) and looked at a 108* LSA (for more TQ).

The narrow LSA really helps with mid-range TQ and, depending on intake, often with only minimal top-end loss.

Learn how to burn eproms, and a narrow LSA cam is "just another cam".

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

Do you have any issues with detonation running 10.25:1 compression and iron heads?

I would like to get my heads milled for about 10-10.5:1, but need to stay on pump gas. My cam has a decent amount of lift, but overlap is actually negative to keep the torque high at low rpm's. I'm worried I may not be able to bleed off enough static compression to support a CR that high.

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

Just for kicks, here's my setup. I know the numbers might not be completely accurate with DD2000, but check out the power curves

NastyL98_T/A

My white car has been a 14.29 with bolt ons, full interior, stock suspension. LB9, SLP CAI, Airfoil, SLP runners, Pro Mag 1.6 RR's, Edelbrock TES, gutted cat, 3"dynomax, SFC's, 2800 stall, 3.42's, aluminum driveshaft, MSD coil. AFPR at 48psi., and street tires. Cut 1.83 60ft every pass . I put a T5 in it, so I wont be doing any bracket racing anymore, but we'll see how it runs.....after I figure out how to launch it .

TunedPort 335

Has been fine for over 2 years now.

I'm not sure on the "exact" compression, but my pistons are 10:1 with 58cc heads, and my 58cc heads have been shaved .010 so i'm guessing its around 10.25:1.

I usually run Shell 93 with no problems. Also, since my car rarely sees over 5200rpm...there is less of a chance of detonation

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Dude I have got parts lying around I could just give you, I would really like to see what you could do with your 335 and some more (better?) parts.

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

I'll take em

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

heck I'll take some parts too!. I dont mean to take anything away from Tuned Port 335, he has a real quick car for the parts he is runnin, but he has 30 cubic on the rest of us too. I am ordering my exhaust this week, and i decided to ditch burning my own chips, i am gonna have my car tuned by professionals on a dyno with a WB O2 so i know the calibration is right the first time. I should be gettin down there with some of the quickest NA 305s i hope, i have one of the largest cams and aluminum heads. Donate the Parts to me!! LOL. I am excited to see who really does have the fastest NA 305.

berlinettakid

Making me want ot go to the track sooooooo bad, never got there W/ the t/a cause i killed what was left of the clutch when i put the new 350 in it (it's mildly built, so it should be pretty quick) and i was working 60 hours a week (weekends were all gone) but i got a new job fri-sun OFF, AND I just got an 85 iroc and i am dying to take it to the track. Start ordering those parts Oh yeah !! This summer I think I'll just set up a camper at the strip and live there

TunedPort 335

Well... it would still be a 305 if it wasnt blown up

83ho86tpi

My goodies came in. Cam specs are 212 218 sep.112
lift .449 .456 With everything ported and .040 pistons.

Im dreaming of mid 13's
Drool

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I love gettin hotrod parts! my exhaust and bushings should be here tomorrow!

mnorton

Is anyone using 21# or 22# fuel injectors in their Bad 305!?

ThirdGenFire

Corrected my times are 14.0-14.1's.
I need to get a chip, and I just got a 2200 torque converter from Big End performance. A Crane or Mallory ignition box and coil are coming next week as well. We'll see what happens.
I would really like to get a set of 3.42's next as well.
I wish I was faster lol

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

not sure there is really a need to step up to larger injectors on an LB9 unless you are running a power adder. I think the 5.0 stang guys can easily make 350 horse with their stock injectors, none of us are makin that kind of power yet I dont think. I think Tunedport 335 has the baddest LB9 here so far and I woudl guess he has about 310 or so given his trap speed. WHERE IS THE GUY ON HERE WITH A 12.9 LB9?????????? I am gonna do a search and see if i can find his name.

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

I am running 26lb LS1 injectors, but I also tune.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I have the LS1 injectors as well, I tune, whenever I can. Even when it doesn't need to be.

mnorton

26# injectors on a 305? Why so big?

TunedPort 335

Tim Burgess has a faster car than me, he also has modded intake/slightly ported heads and burns his own chips. His car runs 11.6's with a 125 shot!! And high 12's off the bottle

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Because I wanted to make sure that the duty cycles would not be too much, and they are not toolittle either. Best to have more and tune for it than too little and run it lean.

N8MAN1068

Mine isn't fully put together yet, but here's what I have

85 lb9
lt1 intake w/24lb SVO injectors, holly AFPR
113 heads, comp NX262 cam, hooker 2460's(thermal coated) MPP2, turbo350 trans, 4th gen rear w/3.73'+spohn control arms, sphon SFC's, 180*tstat, no ac, no EGR, no radio, no backseat.

hopefully, i'll get a chance to get it running this spring/summer and bust some 13's.

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

can run stock pressure and retain lower DC, and will also have headroom for when I build my new motor.

mnorton

OK, so you want to have some headroom on the injector pulse width, that makes sense.

Every injector size calculator I look at tells me that a 21 or 22 lb. injector will be good for up to 275 HP on our 305 engines, depending on fuel pressure and injection pulse width (duty cycle).

It looks to me that I'd never be able to make my target 275 Flywheel HP with 19 lb. injectors no matter what fuel pressure and duty cycle I use. Agreed?

I'm thinking that 275 HP at the crank is pretty realistic with SR Torquer 58cc Heads, and a 214/220 458/471 Cam. Am I right?

N8MAN1068

Yup
and you're right

IROC315

iTrader: (9)

I would love to see NA 13s before I pull mine someday. It's been off the road for a good while (almost 2 years now) so I could gather up parts. I don't have much $$ into the short block so I am not too worried about it.

It's a 84 reman 305 bored .060 over (that's the way I got it.) summit 214/224 flat tappet cam. Fully ported 601 casting heads with larger intake valves. ported Edelbrock base, Slp runners,
Ford 19# inj., Hedman headers, 700r4 with a cheap B &M 2400 stall converter, 3:42s along with too many other things to list.

It just needs to be put back together. I am getting impatient.

I recently got all my nitrous kit parts back together again too. I sold my old style plate and bought a newer style one.

This is in a 89 Iroc.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

OK!!! I just did some searching and i am fired up with questions now! mw66nova, and TunedPort 335, you guys are runnin 13.6 and 13.4 respectively, and both of you claim to have stock heads. Can someone tell me how the heck you guys can run this fast with stock untouched heads? if you guys can go this quick on stock heads any LB9 with a cam and exhaust should be able to go way into the low 14s, and let me tell you, there are lots of 305 cars that cant even get into the 14s with a cam and exhaust. Whats the deal here? I know my single 2.5" exhaust sucked and I was running the stock chip (mw66nova you are carb'd i believe) when i ran my 13.9s but dang i have a converter and heads! I feel my car would have went a 13.8 with better traction but that is still a long way from a 13.6! Maybe my new edelbrock cat back and having my car tuned on a dyno will really wake it up. maybe I am going to gain more than I think and my car will get into the low 13s with the listed upgrades. I guess i am still just lost as to how you guys are goin this quick with stock heads. can someone clue me in?

PS. Tim Burgess' car hauls, but he has ported heads, a manual transmission, and burns his own chips.

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

so port your heads, swap in a higher stall converter, and burn your own chips

okfoz

I am pretty bummed, I run about a 15.1 in my 87 Formula
SLP cam 206/212
1 3/4" SLP headers & 3" cat back exhaust
Stock heads
Ported & polished stock plenum, upper, oversize runners,
some of the freebies,

I really want to shoot for 14 sec, but I think my transmission is going

John

chikn305

iTrader: (2)

My car with edelbrock tes and dynomax cat-back went 14.39 @ 95.36 with a 2.109 60ft 1/8th mi was 9.220 @76.12. I am currently putting together a 305 with ported sr tourquer heads, lpe 211 cam, big mouth base, as&m runners, ported plenum, 19lb fms injectors, edelbrock tes headers, 1.5 roller rockers, I'm going to also try 1.6 rockers, trans go shift kit, tci street fighter converter, 3.73 gears. I also have a super ram that I will experiment with. I'm hoping to put the motor in this weekend. I will post times as soon as the track opens in 2 weeks the car was a 5speed when it ran the 14.39 and it was also on cheap street rubber.

Chris5k

I dont have a 305.. but a 307. close enough right? I ran a 9.8 in the 1/8. 3.73 10 bolt posi goin in right now, along with some tuning hoping for a couple tenths. bad wheel spin off the line. and ofcourse the 700r is tired.. used to get squirly shifting into second... only lasted a couple months lol.

TunedPort 335

I dunno what to tell ya man. When i rebuilt my engine my heads were planed .010 and had a 3 angle valvejob done to them...just normal for what happens during a rebuild. Other than that they are completley stock.

I think your Vette heads are holding you back, I can explain it to you better later...

hit me up sometime on AIM - TunedPort 335 is the sn

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

1meanZ: so far only a 13.7 had been managed, but with the new gears i had hoped to get into the 13.5 range, but did nothing but roast em off the line, then no 2-3 WOT shift. got even better converter built to specs of motor and am getting a new tranny when my tax return check gets here. went 13.93@98 spinning and no WOT 2-3 shift with my 4.10 gears.

here is my setup:
305 .030 over
bone stock 416 heads with fresh STOCK 1.84/1.46 valves
9.5:1 hyper pistons
crane energizer aluminu roller rockers 1.5:1
crane blue racer cam .442" i/.465" e 214/224 @.050
Holley street dominator intake manifold
holley 600cfm 4150 series vacuum secondary carb
hedman longtube headers w/ true duals and h-pipe. summit mufflers
b-stall converter (1800)
stock 700r4
3.73's and 275/60/15 bfg dr's
that net me a 13.75@100.5 @3450lbs. w/ driver

car weighs 3300lbs. w/ driver now and now has 4.10's, but i killed the bfg's so i ran on my street tires, nothing but spin! 2.02 60' was my best! with my new converter tailored to the car, new tranny with transgo shift kit and corvette servo (built to hold 400hp *supposedly*) with a new set of 275/60/15 m/t dr's should put me deep into the 13's. remember, my car weighs much less than most though. car came with no options, then i put a cowl hood on and when i did the interior swap, i took all sound deadening material out and put in aftermarket "lightweight" carpet (8-10lbs. instead of the 50lbs the stock stuff weighed). car weighs 3045lbs. w/o driver (i'm a big ol' boy!)
hope this helped some, even though i am carbed.

TunedPort 335

1MeanZ-

Here's what i think is happening to your car. Since you are running the L98 Vette heads, the chamber diameter on those is bigger than a normal 305 head would be. This causes a disturbance in airflow that i have shown in the picture below. I think if you swapped over to a set of ported - LB9 heads it would benefit you alot.

Also, the Vette headed intake valves are 1.94"... which can cause valve shrouding. you probably already know but this is why many people shy away from building up a 305. You can get alot more flow with the bigger bore.

When you stuff that bigger valve in our small bores, the air/fuel has less room when going around the valve and into the bore. I think the 1.84's are actually alot more efficient.

TunedPort 335

Here's what the flow would look like with an LB9 head on a 305 motor

TunedPort 335

Damn, heres the pic

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

tunedport 335, those vette heads have the same sized chamberes as yours and mine do.

TunedPort 335

Yeah, total volume, however i do beleive the diameter is different.

Aron213 on the boards showed me one time, he measured them out with pics and everything....that was a few years ago.

V6camaroman

no offence or cockyness mw66nova u must be confused dont the vette heads have a 64cc chamber. our 305 heads have a 58cc chamber. those vette heads are from a 350 hense a 64cc chamber. thats what i thought anyways. somebody correct me if im wrong