could you guys help me out here... im switching my 305 tpi to a 350 bored .040 over (357) tpi and im reusing all of the accessorys ... i bought some 30 pound injectors but i was looking on some advice on where to get my ecm done... i was looking at pcmforless.com but i read someone say that they werent good... so any advice would be very helpful. also im looking to get it done i dont want to do it myself. thanks

 

Getting a new cam? I would. Porting heads, plenum, etc? I'd take it to a local shop if so.

 

The money you spend on one "tune", you could have bought the equipment to do unlimited "tunes". I know you said you didn't want to do it yourself, but alot of the needed changes are EASY, and you have a huge support base here to answer questions.

 

yes i have the lt1 cam and im porting plenium and base. you guys dont have any info on pcm for less?

 

As GMTech said, for about $250 you can buy the equipment and "burn" as many tunes as you desire.
I have been doing it since 1998.

 

It's true... you can get everything you need to tune for less than the cost of having one chip done by a company. I bought a programmer for about $45, which came with 2 chips that will work with my car, I modified my stock prom, added a socket, which cost me maybe $5. I made an ALDL communication cable for >$10. There's plenty of free software to edit bins and datalog... so now it just comes down to doing it.

That is the intimidating part to me, actually figuring out what to change, but I'm sure I'll get a hang of it once I get everything up and running.

 

Basically, you have air, fuel and spark,,, just like the old carb days, but now you have the ECM controlling stuff. There are many tables, but just think about what you are doing and look over the contents of the major tables that control fuel and spark.

At first, I would strongly to buy one or two books on this matter of tuning an ECM car. It really is not as bad as it seems at first.

BTW: Having your car tuned thru the mail is a crap shoot. It is my opinion that no one can effectively tune a car thru the mail.

Another BTW: If you tune your ECM yourself or have someone else mail you a Eprom chip, you will need a scanner so that you know what the engine is doing. You can not tune an ECM without the aid of a scanner. So this purchase takes the cost well above $250. But, you will never regret it.

 

Yep, if you're stuck on trying to get a chip in the mail, you might as well throw you're money in the trash. There’s no way someone can tune your chip right the first time with out a dyno or scanner. Every car is differnet. PCMFORLESS is good, but going through the mail bad Idea for any chip maker. I'd look for someone local or you can dyno you're car before and after and give you're results to the chip makers like PCMFORLESS. I think PCMFORLESS does it free no matter how many burns. just keep sending them you're dyno results. One way or another you''ll have to log you're cars feed back in order to get full performance from the parts you added. everything else is second guessing.

 

I've been trying to get into it but all of the links on the DIY PROM board was like $100+ for the burner alone, then like $30 for ZIF sockets and whatever else is needed. Where did you get all of that stuff at those prices?

 

I spent about $500 total. but i bought software and more of the pricy parts. best $500 bucks ever spent. It's not all about the money, there's a lotta reading envolded, lucky me i already understood most of it . READIND and LEARNING and TIME is KEY... With out that you'll have a hard time. The results are great once you get it!! Plus everyone here helps. I have a list of parts and prices. I'd do a search on the site for the best deals..


Pocket Programmer $150
Ultra Light eraser $75
Tuner Cat $150 i think
Chips 25 cents a pop
Scanner $60
Data logger sofware $50 i think.

 

A dyno won't do anything to help work on bottom end, and thats especially important for a daily driver.

Scantool readings are a big help, but it doesn't measure up to having someone there in person with some experience. Try finding someone in your area, as was mentioned before.

 

My point exactly. I just want a chip in there, have it running well and call it a day. I don't care to fool around with tuning all day, and I'd rather have the $500 in my pocket.

 

Buying a chip will set you back at least more than half that.
You will get a car that runs. Thats all. (don't go after any 5.0's)
You have an HSR with 30# injectors, you should be tuning it.
Looks like you will be chasing lean and rich spikes on and off the throttle continuously as well as lockup points on the converter will need to shift once you get a feel for how the motor combo responds. The overall drivability will suffer but it "may" go like hell when you stomp it but you will have no way to ever know or correct for being too lean without a WB and logging.
The WB can come later or you can have it thrown on a dyno to get it measured but you'll still need to change it someday.

Check out Moates site and get some chips and dive in.
Flash and burn's are not that expensive (like $85 IIRC)
Adapter for $30, + chips for 10-15
Just have to find a laptop to get you started.
You will have it running in a weekend (and probably pretty damn good too).

 

www.tpiparts.net burns PROMs for $20 if you tell him (them?) what you want.

Is there any cheap way you can do an intensive tune without getting a wideband 02 sensor?

 

The chip I bought from TPIS was $500 for the level of chip I got, it was also another 100$ each time I wanted a change..... So it's truly far cheaper in the long run to burn your own.

I have a PROMinator so that saves me huge amounts of time and money in chip burning. I have made the equivalent of at least 30 burns and that was "starting" with the TPIS bin file, but I have several different "burns" I can run at any given time as well. (Mileage, track, smog, around town performance, daily driver, etc.)

TunerPro is a freebie for thirdgen copmputers, unless he made it a mandatory buy thing now. (I would recommend paying him the $30 anyway) Once Bill has more time to build more or farms out the work, a Prominator would be great. I don't really know anything about the Ostrich or other emulators.

If you will check the stickies section of the DIY board you can find all the information you need to get you started and plenty of the reading material to help you make good decisions. Definately do the reading, it will save you lots of time in the long run!!!!!!!

There are guys who will send you bin files to start off with. Usually someone has a similar engine to at least get you in the ball park ......

BTW, if all you are doing is going to a 350 and #30 injectors all you would have to do is change the injector constant from 22# to 30#. If you run 22-24# injectors, you can go to GM and buy a stock 350 chip for your 87 for less than $100, mine was $75 but that was about 4 years ago......

 

You have to read the "What we Don't Do" section of the PROM catalog. They will not tune for you engine, only give you options to make common changes.
If you have done a retrofit of a reletivly stock system and want VATS or other options set/turned off it is a good deal.

You can do an intensive tune without it just like the old days of cutting plugs and doing loads of research and datalogging.
In the end you would save time by buying the WB.
I've been working with my tune for two summers now and have it pretty good (for my way of driving it) but have bought the Innovate LC-1 so I will now KNOW what is happening at all times.
It has always seemed pretty good but I never could tell if the WOT stuff was really right. When I add my HSR and open exhaust, bigger TB the challenge will be greater.
It will make the AE and PE stuff easier to adjust by having actual data to work with instead of "feeling" my way through the adjustments. You will not know what your WOT AFR is actually doing without it. Its a good tool to have in the box.