Hello, My name is Scott and i own a 1986 monte carlo SS. It is stock except for TES Headers, High Flow Corvette Cat, And a Dynomax Catback . At the moment my monte is my daily Driver and i average between 12-14 MPG. I am looking for something slightly more effiecient, Something that might open up for my possiable mods in the future. I have been looking at Swapping TPI but i am not sure what i need. I plan on keeping my Stock 305 and 2004r at The Moment. I also need to stay Emissions Legal since i Live in Maryland.

Things i know i need:
-Intake
-Runners
-plenum
-Fuel Rails
-Throttle Body
-Injectors
-Distributor
-Wiring Harness(Will have to modify Connectors to work with The Chasis harness in my car. I hear)
-ECM
-Custom Chip?
-Thermostat housing
-Coolant hoses
-Electric Fan
-Serpentine Setup
-Fuel Lines(3/8 and 5/16)
-Sensors(TPS, IAC, MAT, MAF, EGR, CTS, ESCM, Fuel pump relay, Fan Control sensor)
-Fuel Tank From a 4.3L TBI Monte Carlo
-In-Tank Fuel Pump(not sure what which to get, I hear GMC Typhoon pumps Work well)
-Gaskets
-Linkage
-Cold Air
-Battery Relocated to back(not needed but planed to make room for airfilter)

A Full List or a List of things that are missing from my list would be nice.

Now i hear Speed Density is Better to go with, Do i have to get a 1990-1992 Wiring harness to Run SD? Since i plan Mods in the Future would it be in my better interst to buy the equpiment to burn my own chips or should i just have them done for me? I have seen those Superrams and might upgrade to one when i build a new motor(want a 406SBC).

 

Check out Painless for your wire harness. They might make one just for your applicaiton. Actually, im pretty sure you can tell them your app and they can point you to one thats ready to go for the most part.
Id use a Holley stealth ram. I think you can buy a TPI kit from holley. Its prolly worth looking into. Add up the price of buying all the GM oem stuff and then compare to holleys price.
Speed density is less adaptable from what i hear, though when properly tuned its more efficient.
Anyone have any first hand expeirience with GM stuff vs aftermarket holley parts?

 

I will look at Painless, I know Howell(Howell Engine Developments, Inc. Home Page) has them for my car but it is 450 dollars.

As for the stealthram, Its not emissions legal. And its quite Expensive Compared to using Used parts i can buy off of ebay. I am on a budget being that i am 17 years old and working at walmart. I do have money saved up for the swap. About 1500 dollars so far.

 

To stay emission legal with a tpi setup you need the smog pump and all its jazz. It really is a mess of work.
You should prolyl consider finding a donor car or something so you can get all the parts in one run. Mayb find a wrecked one or something. The job will be a lot easier if you can just do a motor swap and should be well within your price range. I know where there is a rolled 94 9c1(lt1 350, 80k miles) caprice you could prolly buy for 800 bucks if not. Shipping would kill u tho.

I'm really not sure how stringent they are with emission testing up there. Here they would not look for a smog pump or the like if it didnt look like it was ever there.
It looks like most of your money is prolly gonna go to ecm and wiring harness funds to bypass some emissions and to accomodate your transmission.

Do you plan on runing the smog pump and all the emissions stuff as it was designed?

 

I do plan on running the emissions pump and such, I know a few of the guys on the 4th Gen Monte Carlo Site have run their Stock Emissions equipment with a TPI Setup. As for the Trans, I need to PM one of the guys on the other forum about that. My main Concern is getting a list of everything i need.

They dont even pop the hoods here, They just put the car on the treadmill and do a tailpipe sniffer for my year car.

 

I had swapped tpi350 in my 85 monte. I started with a 4.3 tbi and made that into a 305 tbi, 350 tbi, 350 tpi and finally a 302 tpi. If I had it all over to do again, I would of kept it as a 350 tbi. I did not know how to burn prom at the time. I had a holley 4bl intake, turbo city spacer plate and hollet 670 truck tbi throtle body. I had to add fuel pressure, but ran out of fuel at 5000 rpm. I was scaried to run more than 18 psi of fuel pressure with a tbi pump.

If i was you, I would get a monte ls 4.3 tbi engine and body wiring harness, gas tank with sending unit and run the 89 caprice prom and computer. I liked the vin 7 350 prom. You don't need to move the battery or use electric fans like the tpi setup. The 4bl intake flow more air due to shorter runners. You have 3.73 gears already, you don't need more torque. Also throw the 2004r away and get a caprice 700r4 tailshaft. Cut the drive shaft 3 inches.

 

For all the pain in the neck it is to scrounge parts, it really makes more sense to find a complete donor car (done this 3 times now).

If you are really interested in getting good gas mileage, find a rear axle with 2.73's and a complete stock 305 TPI from an auto f-body and drop it in. I don't remember the exact year, but grab the roller cam variety (88 and up?) If the majority of your miles are in the city, stick with the 3.73's.

A factory TPI harness isn't that big of a deal to modify if you are any good at reading a vehicle schematic.

How's this for "stock" appearing? Nobody cares when they see at cruise nights, have even had people take down the vin to get TPI info from a dealer. LOL...

 

You probably have enough wires with the ccc setup to make it tbi or sd tpi. The baro/map, tps, dist module and coolant temp sensors are already there. Thats all a 747 uses. You could use a external fuel pump, hook it up to the choke circuit and not change the tank.
Montecarslow nice swap. I had a maf setup in my monte. I used the firebird air duct with a k&n cone filter. I moved the battery to the trunk instead of the other side. I had a weekend to get it running. I had an electric fan from a camaro. Why couldn't gm make the ss with a 350 tpi, 700, 12.5 front rotors and a 8.5 rear? It just bolts in. I guess the car would be too comfortable and no one would want a vette or camaro. Why put a 8.5 in a grand nation or a 442. The 307 could not get out of it own way, let alone break a 7.5. If you want gas milage install some gears out of a 4.3 monte. Mine were 2.41s. Then build a 334 ( 305 with a 400 crank ) to go with those gears, jet it lean and tighten the air valve.

 

Kane. did u build a 334? You're off the wall man... completely out of you mind... lol. That rod ratio absolutely blowz goat ballz.

There's a million ways to do the job. Find a donor car and youll have a much better setup i think.

 

Ugh... I am going TPI. I just wanted to know What i needed to do the swap. I am not swaping the 305 out for another 305 its a waste of time. I am not changing the gears unless i get a 8.5 with 3.42's. I Was going to Swap a 8.5 rear in a few months ago because i thought my 7.5 was blown but come to find out it wasnt so i just changed the fluid.

I want Better Gas mileage but Performance is my main goal. If i average 16+ city i would be happy since i have been getting less. There arent many carburated options for my car and most carbs would cause worse gas mileage. I figure with TPI i get the initual performance gains from the swap and then having TPI allows for more options(SuperRam For Example) down the road. My Goal in the next few years is a FI 406 W/ 5 or 6-speed.

Wiring and doing the swap shouldnt be a issue, I have fairly good knowledge of cars and through my Automotive Techknowledge class i have many resources open to me. I came to your Forum to get my questions Answered Not to be told what i should do.


Once again,

 

Get a donor car to hiest just the tpi setup from dont take the whole motor for a swap. What you want to prevent is getting a fuel rail from an 89. A wiring harness from a 91. An ecm from an 87 350. A throttle body from a 88, A plenuum from a 90, and injectors from a 91 305 and then trying to figure out why it all doenst work together nicely. Grab a 305 or 350 car with a toasted rot. assembly taht never had the oil changed and gank all the good stuff.

If you buy it all seperate its gonna be very difficult to get parts taht are gonna operate nicely together.
Determining what you need is dependent on which year setup you are going with because in the late 80's the TPI setup changed every year a little, but then was more consistent from 90-92 after they switched to Speed Density. Speed density has different sensors, etc.


I appologize for reacting so rudely to the 334 idea Kane. That wasnt very nice of me. sorry about that. Also i figured the rod ratio would be further off because you would have to use a shorter rod with a taller piston to keep the rod from hitting the cylinder wall at the bottom of the bore. Ill PM you about anything else on this matter. I wanted to publicly appologize to you tho.
Appologies to Striker also for diverting attention further from his post.

 

Elephantismo, I did not build a 334. It has the same rod to stoke ratio as a 400. 5.56/3.75= 1.48 You could use your 305 block and 305 pistons. All you would needs is a 400 crank and rods, plus alot money to balance that mess. I build a 302, 350 block and a 4300 crank. The rods are 5.94 and the stoke is 3.0. It has a rod to stoke ratio of 1.98. The ideal rod to stoke ratio is 1.75. I though the tpi would make up for the loss in stoke. I would gain 1.94 intake valve and a 4.0 bore. In reality, it is too senitive to the cam I used. It had good power just missing too much bottom end. It needs more gear than 4.10. I need to change the cam. It got better gas mileage than my 350 tpi setup and had more power than a 305 tpi.

 

I did a '91 350 TPI 700R4 swap into a 79 malibu in February.

I was able to make the 91 fuel pump sending unit "fit" the 79 tank, but am on the lookout for a 4.3 TBI g-body sending unit as well.

Also rigged the 91's fuel lines and filter to fit the chassis, with some, but minimal R9 hose.

The wiring - used TPI engine bay harness - removed the passenger fender, and cut a rectangular hole for the ECU bulkhead connector there. Cut and solder in the other wires necessary into the original bulkhead connector near the steering column. Off the top of my head, there's the Main Ignition Switch power (for ignition, fans, fuel pump relays, alternator, etc..), some gauges, and get fused switched power to the injectors and other emissions devices (pink wire/black stripe).

Installed an electric fan (off the shelf big one from whatever that auto-parts store was), that's computer controlled = nice. Stuck it in the factory fan shroud (the shroud holds the radiator in, so not much choice).

Cone filter on TB for now - just wanted it done.

200r4 should have a lockup and VSS that you could wire in practically the same as the TPI/700R4, I'd guess. You may have to mess with the VSS though - the speedo is probably cable drive, and VSS input to the ECU depends on the year. There's a dual VSS/with cable drive available for 700R4's from TPI-parts (site sponsor). I'm not sure what's available for 200's. You can also find converter boxes that'll convert whatever signals to whatever - like Dakota Digital. What's the stock VSS and Lockup like in carbed 200's?

You'll need to change the upper radiator hose, I'm sure. I don't remember if the TPI water pump with serpentine is standard or reverse rotation. I'd simply recommend getting a TPI serpentine one just in case.

Get the TPI throttle cable. It can be 'modified' to fit the stock firewall hole (and the hole in the firewall modified some as well). It's a perfect fit on the pedal. The original carb one is surely too short, and won't directly fit the TB.

Not sure what to do about the TV cable with a 200R2D2. Maybe a 700's cable will work?? It's a long reach to the TB.

The serpentine power steering pump can be used, but you'll want to get the hoses with it. The hoses didn't swap (soooo close, but there was a small difference in the flange).

Cruise control can probably be rigged to work the same as with the carb. May want to get the TPI cable, and see what cross breeding you can come up with to get cruise. I don't know what cruise control module came on the 86 monte. Might actually hook up perfectly with the TPI cable.

On that engine, I'd recommend a 89 305/350 TPI unit and ECU. It'll be MAF, which can take care of itself, so to speak, concerning whatever mild/stock cam is in that engine. Speed density is pretty particular about what's in the engine. Speed density is more tuner intuitive to some, but more tune sensitive to all. If you've never twiddled with EFI, just go MAF when learning the in's and out's. Stay with '89 only, for MAF though. 350 or 305 TPI setup won't matter much, with MAF, as long as the ECU matches the injectors. With the 350 setup, you'll have larger injectors to start with, in case you slip a 350 under it in the future.

89 MAF has an external knock module, and the sensor should match the block. Get a 5.0L TPI knock sensor. Get the WHOLE engine/ECU wire harness.

You'll want a VATS delete PROM as well. I think TPI-parts can sell you that as well.

That's all I can think of for now.
ENJOY!!!