car won't start - help

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Jun 14, 2006 | 10:59 AM
  #1  
I just placed a quick post in the general help section so most of the information is there. Generally, I seemed to have had fuel supply issues becauser the motor would cough and sputter at acceleration. I have a Russel fuel filter that is in between the fuel pump (its inline) and the tank, and I cleaned it. It was full of crap. Once cleaned life was good, until a week or so later, then it coughed some more. I then changed the other filter (its standard GM), and everthing worked okay again, and then yesterday I couldn't get it to go when cold. I eventually changed the pump thinking this was the issue, but still couldn't get it to go until I cranked it for a few minutes. Once it finally kicked, it ran great. No hestitation, no acceleration issues, and I had no problem starting and stopping it while the engine was warm. Then this AM the cold start problem is back. It cranks all day long but doesn't seem to ignite. I have a gauge at the fule rail and I note the pressure is 37 psi at prime, and then quickly drops to zero (5 seconds or so). My old pump was 42 psi at prime. The new pump is a holley and the old one was a carter. I'm thinking two things. Maybe some dirt creeped its was up the line and is messing with something, perhaps thats why the system won't hold pressure, but I don't know what to replace. Maybe an injector is plugged open, but I don't understand why it runs great once it starts, at idle and everything up to WOT. Other issue is a bit of a stretch, but maybe there is a spark issue.

Any ideas
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Jun 14, 2006 | 01:17 PM
  #2  
car won't start
I've tried some more diagnostic solutions, and have had little luck. First, I noted that while cranking the motoro my fuel pressure at the rail drops to zero. For siome reason the ECM isn't telling the fuel pump to work, yet it prim,es when I turn the key on. I put together a bypass switch, so that the fuel pump gets its power directly from the battery, but still no luck. It still won't ignite. I pulled the plug and comfirmed that spark is coming from the distributor. My next isea is that the injector isn't pulsing, or maybe the fuse is blown. When I disconnect the injector terminal and note that both wires have 12 volts when the key is on, but it drops to zero when I crank. I assume this means that the injectors are not pulsing - does anyone know if I have tested them correctly, and if so how I can fix the problem?
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Jun 14, 2006 | 05:29 PM
  #3  
you could try to pull the injectors and give each one a tap.
they can also become plugged up resulting in lack of fuel to engine.
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Jun 14, 2006 | 11:58 PM
  #4  
Have you tried hooking up a noid light yet? I'm still in the middle of a TPI conversion but I recently ran into a problem where the injectors weren't firing. It turned out to be the ignition module was bad. I replaced it and the injectors harness started working.
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Jun 15, 2006 | 12:25 PM
  #5  
partly figured it out
first, thanks blackz281le, and tango1112.

I put your comments to use and have further diagnosed the problem, but still haven't come up with a solution. I'll explain and maybe someone can offer a few words.

it seems that one bank of injectors isn't firing during the crank mode, but both banks work just fine when the engine is running. Last night I purchased a noid light and checked both banks while cranking. The passenger side blinks but the driver side is out. This is probably the reason why its so tough to get it started during cold cranks because only half of the cylinders are getting fuel. I tapped all the injectors, and then sprayed fuel into the plenum using a spray bottle. I did that because I wanted to adomise the fuel before it gets sucked into the driver side heads. As soon as I did that the engine immediately ignited, and ran as soon as the key went into the run mode. You could actually feel the left injectors pulse and the cylinders start firing.

So thats the good news, and again thanks to those that responded and to those that had previous posts on the board.

Now, I'm trying to determine why the driver side injectors aren't pulsing during crank mode. It seems odd because I looked through the wiring diagram and don't see a wire that would give a crank signal to the ECM. Further, I don't understand why the injectors pulse like crazy once the engine is in "run", but not "crank", because there is only one single wire that connects the ignition switch to the ECM, and that wire ought to feed both banks with power.

I'm thinking that I will change all of the injector connectors, with a fresh wire to the ECM, but I don't think that will fix the problem. Perhaps the ECM has internal issues.

Has anybody ran into a problem like this?
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Jun 15, 2006 | 10:20 PM
  #6  
troubleshooting
Here's the website I reference in my own troubleshooting. About half way down it tells you how to test to see if the ignition module it bad. This could be the case here but I'm not sure.

Troubleshooting pg. C
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Jun 16, 2006 | 01:50 PM
  #7  
I don't have my manuals, and my car is the other side of the Pacific Ocean so I'm only going off memory. But isn't there two fuses for the injectors, one for the left side, one for the right?
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Jun 18, 2006 | 09:08 AM
  #8  
yup there are two fuses for the injectors, but they are both okay. What's wierd is that ince the engine ignites, both banks of injectors pulse like normal. Its only during cranking that I have this issue. This gives me the impression that the wiring, grounds, and signal will all be received by the injectors - if the ECM gets its act together. I also went through the diagnostic chart from one of the last posts, and that cleared the TPS sensor and the wiring. I thought about the ignition module, but its my understanding that they either work or they don't. There is no in between.

I'm about ready to replace the ECM, but I don't want to spend 130.00 and get the same problem.
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Jun 18, 2006 | 07:02 PM
  #9  
have you tested the module
Have you done the test described on the link I posted? Give it a try and see, it will tell you if the ignition module is bad. Shouldn't take 20 minutes to know for sure. Good luck getting her running. I hate a car that wont run.

Troubleshooting pg. C
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Jun 19, 2006 | 09:56 AM
  #10  
Sorry - yes I did the test and the module seems good. Its also brand new so I hoped it wouldn't have packed it in so quickly.

There is one thing that just occured to me, and its that my ECM was purchased from a wrecker while the PROM was custom programmed. I'm going to post a message on the PROM message board to see if this is an issue that the programmer might have accidently created, and if not, then its probably the ECM. I remember when I first biult the motor I always had a difficult time starting it, and during cranking I was never able to feel the left bank of injectors pulsing. I assume that I should have been able to feel the pulse. I don't know about the right side but they must have worked because the motor would eventually start, albeit after I had to give the throttle a boot as soon as the engine ignited.

Anyway, I'm thinking that this is an issue that has always been there, its just now that its problematic.
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