scuzz

I don't think you will be sorry. And Mike makes a great looking harness. Trust Lextech also, he knows what he is doing.
Ron

clippjr8

This swap is a great way to go for third gen owners. I have tuned every car that has done this swap at Akron Horsepower and they have all made great improvements over the old system. Mkos's fromula was one of the first and mike at EFIconnection has brought many other costumers to our shop for there dyno tunes. This is the wave of the future. These computers have so much more to offer as far as the tune goes and can handle boost and NOS. Everyone should be doing this swap if they want the best to offer for therer cars.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Does the 2001 Express Van software and the 411 computer have an output to control the egr valve on a TPI motor? I need to have the smog equipment working here in California.

scuzz

I know it's implimented in the 0411 cal, but I'm not sure how to get it to control the TPI stuff.
Maybe S10Wildside will know.
I had to disable it in my 41 Chevy pickup project.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I bet you can almost have a fake wire if need be. My car along with Erins SC car both passed perfect with just cats. no canister, egr or smog stuff. I have 25lbs injectors and Erin has 42's. It accually burned super clean

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Thanks guys. I would hate to spend all the money for the conversion and not pass smog. I will be installing a 4L60E transmisssion and I only have two choices for control. The TCI controller or the 411 ECM conversion. Maybe a GM controller as a third choice.

Lextech

The 0411 will not control the TPI type of EGR. The codes can be fudged via tuning. My 98 GMC passed with no cats, no EGR, Ramjet intake, No post cat O2s, and 2 turbos, and 42 lb inj.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Jamy and I just tuned mine again with the built 700R4 and Edge converter. We picked up 30RWHP and 38LBS tq putting us at 355rwhp and 364rwtq

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Good numbers and with an A4 no less. Do you have a high stall and was it locked or unlocked?

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

2600 and it was locked. Unlocked the numbers were 339RWHP and 330RWTQ. It really made the TQ numbers run up. We are thinking about enabeling in the PCM to keep the converter locked under 2nd, 3rd and 4th under WOT. Although not "best" for the converter, I am sure it would be fine assuming the quality of the converter. We locked the converter up in 3rd at 2K and did the run.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Your dyno results are virtually identical to mine. Interesting with the unlock an locked results.

S10Wildside

Matt - What's the part number on that Cloyes timing set? There's several available. Do you have the number? I want to get and compare that set to the GM set.

Thanks

Anniversary-Z-man

iTrader: (2)

Has anyone besides Craig tried to use a small spacer/shim in between a double roller chain and the reluctor wheel???
Craig said it might only have to be about .100", but just enough to clear both the chain and the timing cover.
I need to also take a look at a Vortec style distributor to compare it against the std. SBC one....it sounds like I just need to see how to adapt the sensor and the cam reluctor to the std. distributor.
There's hope that I will be able to use my comp cams double roller and MSD dist.!

badgta

iTrader: (4)

lets us know bro.. i have a cloyes true double roller.. i really like their products and want to keep it......

hey s-10, if we are able to do a group purchase for your harnees, how much would ya knock off?

thanks

adam

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I have been looking into the spacer myself. Like you I do not want to replace my timing chain as I have everything dialed in. Whether the spacer is .150" or .200" you need to take the same amount off the balancer.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

my only concern would be the ring coming to close to the front of the cover

Craig Moates

I think that was right. Maybe we tried 0.200" and it was too much. Backed off to maybe 0.150"? Can't remember for sure. So long as you have 0.030" or so clearance off the chain it should be OK.

I'm pretty sure it was 0.150". Took that much, plus a little for the reluctor thickness I think, off the balancer. Yeah, 0.200" off the balancer, and 0.150" shim behind the reluctor.

With the plastic cover, I figure it'd wear in a little if needed ;^).

Been driving the 383 Tahoe a bit with the new built tranny and 2400 vigilante, it's a monster. Out of fuel pump now (won't respond to more VE up top), so time to throw some more parts at it (li'l Walbro 255). Oil leak around the valve cover also, must fix ASAP. Gears and posi are next.

S10Wildside

I suppose 5-10%, depending on the quantity ordered. Comparing these harnesses to other manufacturer's LS1 harnesses, the prices are already far less. There's not much room to work with.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

I think your prices are great as they are now.....

koolctk

iTrader: (6)

I read what was needed on the EFIconnection website to make this PCM work. How would someone pass smog in CA as 1989GTATransAm asked before?

And Personally you should sell the stuff as a kit needed to convert a regular gen I block with instructions and all (unless you did and I missed it) ? I want to do a 383 TPI w/ spray but OBDI blows and I wont use it.

And whats the total cost parts wise to have the harness and PCM in and ready to go (approx.)?

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

$1k
----------

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cloye...spagenameZWD1V

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

If a kit was to be used and all parts sold new, The price would be huge. Its best to find the coil, ignition module as a one piece unit already on ebay + finding the new parts on ebay as well and so forth. If you wanted all new top of the line, it would probebly be 2K assuming a new pcm, performance distributor, all new sensors and so forth without ebay.

S10Wildside

I'm trying to line up a 3rd gen Camaro to do this conversion and take detailed pictures of the conversion. I may have a car lined up. I've got a nice 400hp motor ready and a low mile 4L60E. This is pushing back the coil pack setup project, but I can only focus on one thing at a time and I think detailed instructions on this conversion is necessary before coil packs are introduced.

I'm bummed that the coil pack setup is getting pushed further back, but sometimes that's just how it goes.

koolctk

iTrader: (6)

Anything for people who have to deal with smog? is this still useable with EGR etc.?

S10Wildside

Not yet. The LS1 PCM does control EGR, but not the TPI engine type.

koolctk

iTrader: (6)

Any thoughts/ideas to get it to pass CA smog? Does the EGR need to actually work, or just need to be there?

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

It just has to be there. You can pass with it "fake" connected. I passed with just a cat nothing else. Same with the blown car.

redcamaro83

anyone tried this setup with lt1 intake?

scuzz

Mike made a harness for my Ramjet setup. Should be ready to fire in a few weeks.
I'm ready to get this project done.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Were going to be tuning Erins Procharged car on memorial day. I'll tell you guys how it turned out. Also, since the 411 cant control the TCC for a few reasons we went ahead about bought B&M's TCC lockup kit for mechanical cable speedos and it works PERFECT. Took about 30 minutes to install and you can set it at any speed in any gear. We have hers locking up at 40MPH and I couldnt ask for anything else.

reece146

What are the issues (if there are any) with using this setup on a T5 / T56 car?

S10Wildside

The Express Van never used a manual transmission. The calibration must be modified. Justin is using a T56 in his car. I think Jamy has the calibration all worked out.

The harness can be built either way.

mikesz1984

how would you make this harness work on a car that has a mechanical speedometer, or would you have to convert to a newer style?

scuzz

The way I'm doing mine is to use a speedo gear unit from a 92 Camaro police car.
It has the manual speedo output as normal, and the VSS plug also. The police cars used the vss for ECM and the cable drive to sync their radar I've heard.
Delco part # 10456131.
I've bought 6-8 in the last few years from AC Delco dealer in Chattanooga. Works great for streetrod apps and stuff like this.
Ron

battman

iTrader: (2)

I am in the process of acquiring the parts for this swap and ran across this guy on eBay that sells allot of used ecms, I just bought one that came out of a 2001 express van for $25.00!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=110114043616

Hopefully this helps someone out trying to find an ecm

Craig Moates

Nice find!

By the way, I had commented about using an online CNC service for some custom reluctor wheels previously. I did get a chance to test their services out for another project, and it turned out very nice indeed.

If folks think it would be beneficial and everybody needs the same thing, getting a batch of stuff might make some sense. I'd say there are two things in this project that would make good sense:

1) Reluctor wheel for the crank nose which clears a double roller timing set and fits between existing balancer and crank gear. Provide thin material at balancer/gear sandwich to avoid cutting balancer.

2) Half-moon reluctor for camshaft, with balancing cutouts, that would replace the paddle-wheel reluctor in an MSD-style distributor. Provide set screws for proper retention.

I would assume that both parts would need to be made from stainless or maybe something like a mild steel, is this correct? Or will aluminum trigger the cam and crank position sensors also?

If anyone wants to play around with some designs, the software is free. Go to www.emachineshop.com and check it out.

battman

iTrader: (2)

I would defiantly be interested in a crank reluctor wheel that clears the double timing chain and existing balancer

S10Wildside

The stock reluctor looks like powdered metal. I'm not very confident aluminum will work.

Craig - I still owe you an email. I haven't forgotten.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Erins car has a mechanical speedo and it works fine. The PCM thinks the car is in park 24/7 No issues with it and before I had the 4L60E in the Formula I ran the PCM in park all the way to mikes house and back. 200 some flawless miles.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

doesnt that mess with the fuel the pcm adds? Ive read that based on the 730 ecm in more than one occasion

jwscab

aluminum won't work for the reluctor. needs to be a ferrous metal. Mild steel will be perfectly fine. No sense adding cost using stainless.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Damed if I know lol I just know it runs good lol.

S10Wildside

It should not be. The new harness is wired so that the two orange/black wires go to the factory park/neutral indicator switch...giving the circuit a ground in P/N. Unless you modified something with that switch the P/N signal is as it was from the factory.

You jumped in first with your car and we soon discovered that the second wire was needed for P/N (see post pages ago). For awhile your car thought it was always in gear.

The only way to tell the PCM the vehicle is always in P/N is to permanently ground the orange/black wire(s). I wouldn't do that.

reece146

Any way to run electric fans with this setup?

battman

iTrader: (2)

yes it works with electric fans

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Mike, my bad. Neutral then? Because Erins PCM always reads 0 MPH same with mine when I had the 700R4

S10Wildside

The VSS constants probably need adjusted in the PCM. Be sure to mention this to Jamy when her car gets tuned on Monday. Unless the VSS wires are not connected, you should have a vehicle speed at the PCM. We've already confirmed that the 3rd gen VSS signals can be read by the LS1 PCM.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Mike, with erins car all I have is a cable from the trans to the back of the cluster guages. Thats it. I have two VSS wires by thte trans with tape on the end. Theres nothing to connect them too. Not even a buffer box or anything.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Wow, I found this thread looking for a "how to tbi to tpi" thread. Ive spent more time today reading this thread, then working at work. OPS!! Since I have not bought a harness yet, but most of the mechanical parts, I'm seriously considering this. Few questions, and remember I'm going from TBI to this. I also think being able to do this with one of the FFV ecms would rock

1. I am having to do this on tighest budget. I would need to fetch a 411 ecm from a 350 5sp truck, get the harness from same truck and use most of it, merging where needed to my existing harness. Assuming I am willing to put the ecm where my ac is(removing ac), will all the wires lay/fit in place? Have one of you edit out the maf sensor, adjust for my vss tell I can afford EFILive? BTW, few years ago I put a 3.4SFI into an S10 truck. Not fun, but I did it.

2. How does the coil/module bolt down?

3. I have to move my o2 holes to one on each downpipe correct, and do I HAVE to use heated ones, or can I get away for a month or so with regulars? What about the post cat sensors?

4. Sense I have an electronic speedo that feeds from the ecm, how do I control it? Appears most of the cars so far where mechanical ones?

5. I have unknown cam, that appears quite bumpy and feel my flexing vac gauge is from the cam. This ecm can handle that right? Appears some of you have nice cams (I dont know v8 cam specs yet).

6. EGR? Dont the new trucks have digital egr, where ours is vac?

Anything else that may be brought up from these questions, spew it please.

reece146

I'm kinda in the same boat as Dale. I'm also starting with a TBI setup.

I really want to get this setup into a project car (non F-body) and I am putting the engine where I want it - as close to the firewall as possible.

Has there been any progress on the DIS stuff that was mentioned a few pages ago?

I was looking at the Delteq stuff and it looks like it still needs the Opti to be in place. Not practical on a Gen I SBC. Any way to fangle something using the Vortec crank position sensor? Better ideas? My build is so cheap it bleeds so shelling out for an XDI is not going to happen given the money required to go with the 411 style harness.

Any input appreciated.