85mcss

iTrader: (5)

Okay guys...

I have a 355 with a double roller and have found that if i decided to machine a spacer for the crank reluctor, i would lose almost 1/2 inch of valuable balancer to crank snout engagement, which is definitely not an option that i want to pursue due to the large supercharger crank pulley and chance of snout deflection. Are the outputs from the MSD crank trigger kits listed here:
http://www.msdignition.com/1cranktriggers.htm
Anything close to what the stock crank sensor outputs are? Could I use one of these?

jwscab

Most of the MSD stuff won't work, most likey, since the hall effect sensor from the vortec generates a square wave whereas the magnetic pickup will only generate narrow pulses (same timing, but there are more 'edges' that the pcm will read incorrectly.). You could build an electronic interface that generates the signal, but most people are more adept at building hardware instead of electronic circuits, plus you need reliability.

now, what you could do, is use a flat piece of steel, and make your own reluctor, that bolts on exactly like the MSD trigger(on balancer), that has a pattern just like the vortec reluctor. Then wire up either the MSD reluctor pick-up or use the vortec pick-up (either with a custom bracket), that lines up degree-wise, where the stock vortec is (lower passenger side).

OR.....you could just a single roller and use the factory reluctor, balancer, sensor, and timing cover.

gixxer92

Knowing that there is always better out there. What single roller timing sets would be recommended to use? Aftermarket?
Recommendations on a timing set for a 383 that is going to get flogged on the road course?

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Both my cars run the Cloyes Single Roller. And I know Justins car does too because I installed it lol.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Can some of you that have already done this swap, post some pictures of where/how your ecm is. I read somewhere about it being in same location as stock. Does it fit? How is it held in there? Do I have to take that plastic bracket out to make the new fit? Etc.

Finally got most/all plugs labeled on my express harness, and most of the loom removed. I have been pulling plugs out that are not needed.

I am a 5sp car, but I have decided to leave the automatic plugs in the harness for possible future usage. Anyone think this is good idea/bad idea?

I'm hoping for end of august to start making the physical swap. I have agreement to buy some headers, will have to have an o2 plug made in them. Still need to go to gm and get reluctor ring (and new iggy key, and remote for GTP).

Dale

iTrader: (12)

EGR, while at the junk yard today, I noticed a FWD 3.1 or 3.4 that the mounted on the side. But the plug inserted the same way as it mounted so I was worried that one couldnt get the plug on it. As well the plug was different then the 4.3/305/350 one. Thought I would toss that out for someone with better fab skills then myself to look at and possibly make work.

tpiselli

iTrader: (1)

Hi folks,
I was wondering if anyone has tried this with a 305 motor? I have an '86 Camaro with an LG4 engine (305 w/ 4bbl carb) that I want to change over to TPI with the 411 PCM. Going over the conversion I think I'll need the following (along with the items listed on the first page of this thread):
- upgrade the fuel delivery for TPI fuel pressure,
- grab an 5.0 Express van knock sensor,
- flash the PCM with a 01-02 Express van 5.0 vin.
Can anyone think of anything else?
Thanks,
Tony

scuzz

I've been looking for a 305 .cal file to flash PCM with for a couple months. No one seems to have access.
If you could flash the PCM for 2001-2002 Express Van with 305 everything else should work.
I suppose the 350 flash could be tweeked if I knew what to change.
I know some of the Express Vans ran the 305 engine, and some ran 4.3 also.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

TPIselli, You would also need to make sure you have 305 injectors. Or learn how to calibrate for having 305 displacement, with 350/whatever injectors you have.

I'm doing "kinda" the same swap as you. TBI to TPI/411

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Dale, fits in stock location. It JUSY fits up there. Its accually wedged up there and the bottom panel holds it up there. Weve done this on 3 cars and they havent moved in a year or so.

scuzz

In the stock Express Van cal, the PCM is set for 19# injectors by default. The Vortecs used the spider looking 19# injectors inside intake on 305, 350, 4.3, so IMHO, the 19# would work on an otherwise stock 350.
Opinions???

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

question....

I have noticed after the 411 swap when I am downshifting on the highway like if im going to race or something, and I let the clutch out slowly into the next gear, the exhaust sounds different than with the tpi computer.

I'm pretty sure Ive read somewhere that the 411 wont fire certain cylinders under certain conditions? Something to do with load? I dunno, I really wish I could explain it better but I guess im at a loss for a good dexcription :shrug:

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

nevermind. Im pretty sure my answer is Sequential Fire.

tpiselli

iTrader: (1)

Are you droping gears and not giving it gas (just trying to slow down)? If so your probably dropping into a deceleration mode and the computer will pull fuel and spark. Without looking at the individual calibrations I'd guess the 411 has a better calibration for deceleration (probably help fuel economy a little).

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

I normally shift to the gear I want, and slowly let out the clutch. I figure its prob better instead of just slamming it in gear and letting the clutch fly out lol. This is obviously with planned races or whatnot where I have a few seconds to slow down/get line up with the other guy etc.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

As for the tone, thats very possible. Ive noticed changing air/fuel mixture will change the sound of the exhaust. So will better or worse ignition(again, it affects air/fuel ratio).

As for it not firing a few cylinders when in highway mode, The LS1 doesnt have that setup. Now if the ECM has that option, I dunno. Surely that is an option that could be turned off/on.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

One last question. One of the things deleted from my car with this swap was the charcoal canister. This is good because it was broke anyway, and there was always a lot of pressure in my gas tank. Now I just have a vent line running behind the passenger fender. Seems to work good, but now I can smell gas when im sitting still. Is there a way to kill the smell?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Just by replacing whats to be there, or they have gas caps that supposedly vent.


I have some pressure or vac on mine when I take the cap off, not overly worried about it. I'm planning on keeping the charcoal/purge canister with mine. (hopefully start end of month)

sol_searcher

What is required to run a vortec distributor on a stock 89 tpi 350? I don't want to change to 411 and associateed wiring harness yet.

jwscab

Justin, for the charcoal canister, you can hit up a junkyard, and grab anything that just has a single vent hose on it. There are ones that also have a single vacuum hose as well, that you would hook into the manifold somewhere. No solenoids or anything needed. The charcoal will absorb the fuel vapor, then the if you have one with a vacuum port, when you start the engine it will draw the vapor into the engine.

As for the last question, Sol-searcher, you can't run the vortec distribtuor without the newer pcm or drastic modification to the vortec distributor. There is no pickup assembly in that distributor for the factory ecm, just a single cam position sensor.

scuzz

You've got to change all at the same time. It's kind of a package deal.
Ron

S10Wildside

The distributors are drastically different. The TPI distributor houses the ignition module and the Vortec distributor houses a cam sensor.

sol_searcher

Thank you for the answers.

What kind of problems will be I be faced with when using a 400 block when trying to do the TPI conversion to the 411 pcm and trying to adpat the following:
Vortec 350 Harmonic Balancer (I know about the internal /external balance problem)
Vortec 350 Timing Cover
Vortec Timing Reluctor Ring
Vortec Crank Position Sensor
Knock Sensor.

I have a 350 now and need to redo the wiring but am planning on putting the 400 in within 6 to 12 months. I however need to make the wiring and pcm decision now.

Thanks in advance with the help on my ignorant questions.

jwscab

everything is going to carry over from the 350 except for the balancer. You will need to take a 400 balancer and have it machined to mimic the vortec balancer. Timing cover is fine, use the same timing chain (same type, doesn't have to be the same one), reluctor ring and sensor are also the same.

for the knock sensor, you will probably be stuck with the 350 one, and have to watch during tuning for any knock activity. another possibility is maybe a 454 knock sensor. You fall right in the middle with a 400, at 4.125" bore, which is what is the fundamental mechanical property to determine knock frequency. 350 is a 4.00" bore, and 454 is a 4.25" bore. It would have to be a 96-9? 454 knock sensor, so that the impedance is right for the '411 pcm.

d10pins

iTrader: (1)

Well I'm just about done with my swap. S10Wildside and Scuzz you guys were a big help thanks. Here are some pics.
Pic 1: Engine

Pic 2: Distributor and wires

Pic 3: Mounted the coil over the distributor

Pic 4: 02 sensor bank 1

Pic 5: 02 sensor bank 2

Pic 6: crank sensor

Pic 7: Wiring harness coupler to inner fender well.(white stuff is silcone)

scuzz

Have you gotten to drive it yet?
Ron

d10pins

iTrader: (1)

i will in a couple of days

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

awesome work! Looks great! You'll love how it drives!

I just got back from another 1300 mile trip, and got 26mpg. The more I drive this car, the more the $$$ in gas im saving pays this mod off lol

d10pins

iTrader: (1)

how did you wire up your reverse lock out sol?? did you use the plug from the computer or the brake pedal??

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Mine isn't hooked up. Its not hard at all to overpower the lockout spring.

d10pins

iTrader: (1)

I got it working now, i didnt have my vss wire hooked up. now it is working.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Great news - congrats!

scuzz

Did you ever get your project driving?
Ron

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I started my TBI to STPI/0411 project yesterday. Do we want me to start a thread for my swap, or just post in here?

I already ran into a problem, but I know what I gotta do to fix it. Plan on getting that part this morning.

tpiselli

iTrader: (1)

That's cool, I just got my LG4/700R4 combination out of my '86 sports coupe last night. Good luck.
I plan on having a set of detailed engine build up pages on my .Mac web site and, use this forum/thread when I need help and/or reach milestones relevant to this thread. So, while I doubt people on this thread will care about how my 305 looks once the machine shop is done with it they may care about wiring up the engine and tuning the computer.
Maybe you could do something similar?

d10pins

iTrader: (1)

i drove it last week, but the headers are getting really hot. also im getting 2 codes 102 and 1345. not sure what there are.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

p0102 is "mass or volume circuit low input" it is a non mfg specific code.

p1345 is "camshaft to crankshaft position correclation fault". It is a GM specific code. On this I am going to guess that your dizzy is not in at exactly 0 degrees.

Anniversary-Z-man

iTrader: (2)

Does anyone know if MSD has any dist. boots that will work with the Vortec crab dist.???

Thanks

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Summit shows MSD-32169 for a 97 c1500/350.

I'm going to try and run the crab dizzy, with our stock style coil and run plug wires for a 93 LT1. Or thats the plan at the moment.

86L69

I'm a ways off from a swap like this since I'm starting with an L69, but I've got a few ?s to throw out there:

- Did anyone ever get the EGR functioning? In addition to avoiding emissions hassles it could be worth another 1-2 mpg.

- Is anyone close to controlling lockup on a 700 or 200R4? I'd hate to control this separately when there's all that brainpower in the 0411 PCM.

- Is the 0411 PCM compatible with a 6L80E? That would make it worth it to me to ditch a 700R4 or 200R4, although I've yet to see any GMPP or aftermarket 6L80E controllers.

Thanks in advance to anyone that can help on this.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I have designed a bracked/mount for the EGR. I have yet to have it made because of lack of funds.

no answer here.

0411 IIRC does control the 6l80e as I think some of the guys on the truck forum run them.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Your going to need a crank relearn to get rid of that cam to crank code.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Heres a crappy picture from this morning. Way to dark out to be taking pics, but I wanted too. Remember, I am modding an orginal express van harness, not a premade harness from wilds10.


I could use some advice stabbing the dizzy in. Does the stock vortec dizzy hold down put it in the proper position? Or how do I know exactly where it goes? Also, am I seeing right that the old #1 plug was facing to front n right. The new #1 plug will now be facing to front n left(where #1 actually is on the block)?

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

looks like a lot of work!

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Thanks. So far everything seems to be matching up very well. The only wiring problems so far is the AC system....the two are nothing alike. I dont have ac in my car, but I am wiring it up for it for possible future use.

I'm also leaving the auto trans wires in, even though my car is a standard. I'm going to end up having 3 fan triggers on one fan, and 2 triggers on the other. Dual knock sensors(like the 7.4). I'm going to keep maf and map on the car as well. I'm also going to try and use the orginal style iggy coil which is higher voltage. Plan to mount the ICM inside the car, rather then engine bay.

Still not sure which fuel pump is in the car

Plan on having it running by the 19th, would like it by the 9th. Then I'm going to rely on some of you people to help me tune this thing

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Dale,
Good luck with converting it. I give you alot of credit. For me I would probebly put it all together to have something not work right. I'm heading out to the track tomorrow to see what he Formy runs. First time out in like 3 years.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Back to the EGR. From what I understand the 411 computer does have an EGR output. I would assume it can be made to work in the software. The other thing I believe it also has an SES light for the smog techs.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

411 FOR SURE has EGR output, but its an electronic 5 wire, where the stock has 2 wires controling a selnoid to vacuum control the EGR. I have something designed out that should work. But I dont have access/funds to a machine shop. I still have about 1 hour of drafting left on the drawing.

Both have SES lights.


I have just a few more wires before mine is done. I'm down to the confusing ones.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Dale for the reply. Do you have a drawing that shows what the 5 EGR ports do? Curious as to what needs to be machined and what your drawing shows.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

theres not 5 ports, just 2... in n out. Its controlled via 5 wire. I'm going to guess that its for "4 positions", plus a ground. But I'm just guessing on that.

My drawing looks like a block of something with a few holes drilled in it. I can post a picture if people really want.