I don't know if this is worth it to anyone but I thought I would post what I learned and the results of installing my Edelbrock Manifold and Arizona Speed and Marine Runners.

Install is on an 89 350 IROC basically stock. Has a small Crane Cam and AFPR.

First off the Edelbrock manifold comes quite complete with good instructions, more than you need really, decals, a small catalog, EGR block off plate, one gasket for the right side runner, never could figure out why they did this, and four bolts. The piece is nice and of good quality-no complaints and Summit had it to me dang near overnight.

ASM runners, very nice quality but there is one hickup. I ordered a set for 89 to 92 cars and I got the 85 to 88 version with the cold start. I didn't know if I had to modify these to work or what. No instructions, cheat sheet, or tips. I did find out the following week that ASM did send me the wrong left side runner. They are sending me the correct one but I'm starting the second week now waiting for it. Only took about 3-4 days to get the original set. Aggravating but they are nice and I would heartily recommend this piece.

Removed old plenum,left throttle body intact, old runners, dist, and intake.

First tip if you use these runners you will not be able to tighten the lower runner bolts with the valve covers on like you can with stock. So remove them and plug up ALL of your holes into the engine. The right side valve cover sucks to remove with AIR and AC stuff. Lots of parts to get out of the way.

I layed a lot rags and plugged up all of the oil holes in the lifter valley and cleaned all of the gasket material off. I got some small 3M fiber discs and used a small air grinder.

I also tapped all of the bolt holes clean and then sprayed and wiped everything with brake cleaner.

The intake manifold is best assembled with all of the pieces you need to transfer over while it's off the car-duh I know it seems simple but I missed two plugs and hand to do them while on the car and it was tough.

Check all the cooland and vacuum holes out in the new manifold before hand and hit the hardware store up for some brass plugs. These don't come with the manifold.

I got genuine GM intake gaskets. Edelbrock states specifically not to use Permatorque as they will develop leaks.

I installed the manifold using the recommended Edelbrock torque of 25 lbs. BIG WARNING HERE from previous lesson learned. My Helms manual states 35 lbs. THE BOLT HOLES THAT ARE IN THE HEADS INBOARD OF THE WATER PASSAGES WILL NOT TAKE 35LBS THEY WILL STRIP_TRUST ME. There are four per side. There is only about 4 or 5 threads in this thin casting and maybe when new it was ok to crank on them but not now. 20 is about all they can take. Previously I had already drilled and helicoiled all of these. It only takes about an hour and I recommend doing this. If your careful you can keep everything nice and straight and they will take 25 or more lbs if need be now.
Use genuine helicoils. I tried some other brand and they wouldn't start. The outboard water jacket bolt have enough threads and are not a problem.

 

My coil mounts on the two farthest back bolts on the right side of the engine. The bracket that the factory uses will not fit back on as designed due to casting changes. This was a fairly easy fix as I used my gas torch and heat and beat (love that part) the base of the bracket into a horseshoe shape so it would fit. Had my 12 year old holding the part as I warmed it with the rose bud. I don't think he was real comfortable with the job. Install the bracket but do not bolt your coil and EGR solenoid down yet. Leave it loose for now because the location of the distributor hold down bolt is now located farther back. You won't be able to tighten or loosen it with these parts in place.
I'm using my stock EGR so I used the supplied block off plate to cover the corvette style EGR at the back. There is no gasket supplied for this-strange.

The runners bolt up with my stock bolts and I used stock gaskets opened up to meet the new dimensions. Do one side and then install your injector rails. I found the the mounting bosses on the Edelbrock manifold weren't quite in line with my injector rails and it wanted to twist my rails as they tightened down thus causing leaks. I took a small rat tail file and cleaned the mounting holes in the injector rails. It didn't take much, almost just a polish for all four bolts to finger start and pull down evenly. Make sure you pull it down evenly or leaks can happen.

I put my stock left runner on the left side as I said I'm waiting for my part still. At least the left side is easy to change.

 

I installed my distributer at this point because I felt it would be easier without the plenum in the way- I was right. My plug wires were marked with tape and I connected all of this up.

The plenum mounted with the stock bolts and sealed perfectly just get everything started before you tighten.

The stock runner gaskets will not stay put to the ASM runners or the manifold like stock ones do. The little plastic push tips that usually hold things in place are too small for for holes supplied. They fit but don't stay well. So I used a bit of brush on gasket tack from permatex to hold them.

All that was left to do was set the TPS, IAC, TV cable, vacuum hoses coolant etc. I always do this any time I mess with the throttle body. For some reason I could not get the water neck and manifold to not leak. I think water was coming up the through bolts. So I got some thicker gasket material and used silicone to seal the bolts and a slight thin coating on the gasket. No leaks. I also used this same O2 sensor safe sealant on ALL of the bolts in the assembly. Except for teflon tape on water plugs. I used anti sieze on the EGR. I also recommend that if you take the time to tap out your bolt holes, clean your bolt threads with the correct die and some brake cleaner.

 

Car started up and ran fine=got lucky. Set the timing adjust everything like the IAC etc and now tighten the coil and EGR solenoid back in place. By the way I used a 14mm flex ratcheting head wrench to work the distributor bolt.

I connected my tuner pro and began scanning. I noticed now that my car was running quite lean. BLMs in the high 140 to 150. I first checked for leaks and timing just to make sure I didn't induce a fubar, which is usually the case. All seemed pretty good so I got out the Autoprom and began emulating.
I found that I had to move all of my MAF tables a bit richer. I'm not done yet as I have some sagging here and there but over a few hours I got pretty much everything good enough for now-me being a beginner at tuning.

Performance-WOW. This is by far more improvement then I could have hoped for. Just seat of the pants and ear but the engine just plain sounds tough. It rumbles at idle and pulls hard to 5000 rpm. I have 2:77 gears and if I just planted my foot before I might get a chirp. It now fishtails and it roars accelerating. Major improvement the car is really fun now. Can't wait till my 3:73s go on board next week

My next line of thought if I'm adding more fuel I should be able to change the timing curve. So I took the ARAP timing charts and burned them onto my chip. In the past this would cause 10d or more retard because of knock so I never left that in. I use to run the stock AUJM timing. BUT NOW even with the ARAP 2 or 3 degrees pull out, I think I saw 7 or 8 once when I jumped on it from dead stop going around a corner. It was just for a brief second then it went back down to 3d. I think when the 3:73s go in I won't have much if any knock. Last time I datalogged I only had three knocks accounted for while I drove it around town for two hours. I might have to do some timing tuning to make sure I don't have knock but it's not bad as is. This timing made a huge difference again. Strictly seat of the pants but I'm telling you the car wouldn't do 30 yard burnouts before without severe power breaking.

I've still got some tuning to do and I still need to replace the left runner but these parts really made a difference. I decided to post this here because I see a lot of how to questions, like the ones I ask, and I thought it might help some of you to know what to watch out for upfront. If this needs to move to another area please do so. I'm no expert by far, just some 50 year old goofball whose been tweaking on stuff his whole life and aggravating the neighbors since I was 12. I love hot rods.

Finally runs like an IROC should.

 

I'm plannng on fitting AS&M runners next month so it was great to see a step by step acount of how its done.

cheers

 

You could burn a $6E bin in there, and leave out the cold start injector, if you think the smog ****'s won't catch it.
Or, once you do get the other runner, you can install everything, disable the CSI by some covert means, and still run $6E.

 

Reading how happy you were with the results has really made my day

A bunch of us just did a group purchase on the AS&M's and should finally be receiving them in the next week or two. Some are also are tryingto get a group purchase going on an intake base aswell.

Obviousy, seeing as how you have a bigger cam, I'm sure that played a major role in how well these runners/base combo performed, but still, even on an "internally" stock L98, I'm poitive we'll all feel a major improvment. Especially from 3500 and up.

Glad to hear you got better results than what you had anticipated. Congradulations

 

LT how much did ya get the as&m runners for in the end ?? are you getting an intake base aswell or just porting the stock one ??

 

You guys are correct in that the combination of cam manifold and runners really work as a package. I don't even have headers and I'm pleased. The only problem I seem to get when I move the MAF tables is a slight stumble at low speed. I think I can get that out though.

My car is an 89 without the cold start and less I'm mistaken. Please correct me if I'm wrong, my 165 ECM with AUJM Bin is a 6E. Am I mistaken? It is supposed to be for a 89 Camaro with auto. I don't see any CSI stuff in the ARAP HAC. I do see the "start up enrich vs coolant though".

 

Just some advice, 3:73's are bad for tpi, revs to quickly. get 3:42's tops. 3.27 would be optimal for the huge amount of torque a large tube runner 350 makes

 

thank you, that was very informitive. like LT1fun i will be upgrading to the AS&M runners and base. ill pro. be changing my cam aswell at that point, then heads and rebuild next year.

 

We got them for $349 from FastToy's.
Here's the link to the origional thread

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/grou...e-runners.html

As far as what I'll be doing for the intake base, keep your eye's open for a new thread coming shortly.....

 

and disagree.

If you drive the car only on the weekends and you want the most performance, go with the 373s (dont go ANY higher than that)
otherwise yes, 342s are the best ALL AROUND gear.

 

Are the genuine GM gaskets big enough so as not to cover the ports? I agree that 3:45 gears are probably the best all around. However my TPI does quite well with 3:70 gears.

 

I've been hanging around in this site for a few years with out posting. This is my first post and I would like to thank you for this informative thread. I missed the GP ASM runner package and regreat it, I AM! interested in the base GP so please let me know If you need money's to make this happen.
You Guy's ROCK!

 

GWW: Thanks for the very detailed posts. I'll be using the same runners along with a ported plenum, and a slightly ported Edelbrock base on my car as well. Glad to read about happy results for sure.

 

DOH! I misread your post and thought you had an 88, but got the later model runnners. You're very right about AUJM. I use it. Sorry for the mistake.

 

Good job on your post. I think the majority of your performance gain is in your tuning. I built a new motor last winter with everything you added plus trickflow aluminum heads, headers and duals, 52mm tb, stock cam and 1.6 rr's. It defenately pulls better, but not night and day different. I am still running the stock prom. I believe this is where all the potential is to be found, as your results seem to show.

Also you do need to modify the stock plenum at the runners and the tb inlet to gain all the performance out of your new intake. Summit sells a MR gasket runner gasket set that is already sized for the larger stuff. $18.00 I think?

 

Rob
You will have to open the plenum ports if you want to optimize everything. I'm going to do that at a later date when I get the money for new heads.

89GTA your question about the base intake ports gasket I'm sorry I cannot answer. I used the GM gasket becuase Edelbrock recommended it. So I can somewhat assume that it is ok and doesn't cover them up. However my thinking was that since I have the stock L98 heads opening up the gaskets to match the intake would have been to no gain so I never gave it any thought. Eventually maybe next year when I get the money to rebuild the whole motor some Trick Flow or AFR heads will go on. At that time everything will be port matched correctly.


I'll post in the differential group how the install went and if everything fit. The 3:73 will be fine as the car is 99% a city driver. Just so you guys will know I found a supplier of everything I need, brand new to change out 2:77 gears etc in my 9 bolt. My overall goal with this car is to have it look dead stock, numbers match, but run low 13s or high 12 if the wind is with me. Then I'm through. difftechnics.com.au

- Drove it to LA from Fresno (Over 400 miles round trip) to look at a convertible IROC this weekend. My car ran smooth, no leaks, burned a little more fuel, lost about 1 or 2 mpg (I think my programming is a bit rich) but I'm still smiling. Thanks for the comments guys. I was hoping this would help. I spend a lot of time on this site reading and my abilities as a mechanic have really improved-so I thought it was time to try and pay back a bit. Great work to ALL of YOU!!

 

Replied to you along with Rob farther down the posting chain, thanks

 

Double posted by accident and deleted