oxrabidus

I have a 1988 305 I want to put Vortec heads on it with a TPI setup. I read about a cam from Comp cam called the Launcher series cams, they have low lift (like .44/.448) and really long duration (the lowest was about 238/240) they are hydraulic flat tapet cams...can they be run with roller lifters or would this be bad for the valvetrain? I am also gonna bore it .06 over and port the exhaust side of the heads to 1.55 or 1.6 (depending on which will fit...) any tips would be great! I want to get the most out of the engine...

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Dude you're going to have to do ALOT of research on what'll work with a 305. Alot of your plans so far don't match up for your goals. There are basically 1 set of heads that will work with a 305, the World Product SR Torquer heads. You need a pretty specific duration on the cam and you want LOW duration, high lift with a TPI engine. Go ahead and search this sight thurougly and you'll see what all needs to be done to make your 305 more powerful and what does and doesn't work with a TPI setup.

GVMV

iTrader: (2)

Buy a 350.

On a different note, can you even bore a 305 .060?

oxrabidus

Yes you can bore it .06 over... it will make 315 cubic inches...
----------
Yes you an bore it .06 over... it will make 315 cubic inches...ther are stroker kits to make 340 cubic inches but not worth it...just gonna bore it...

GVMV

iTrader: (2)

Yes I understand the numbers behind it.


The most recent Camaro performers even mentions Thirdgen.org on the debate over building 305/350. I like his comment

"Why put all the time, money and machining into a 305 and still end up with an engine that's on the bottom of the totem pole as far as power and torque are concerned? " Pg.60 Camaro Performers/Sept.07

This is a good question. If your going to spend the money why build a 305.

flaming-ford

iTrader: (7)

i dunno dont think your way off.

they make 305 vortec heads, which are an improvement over any of the factory equipment. Or the vortec 350 heads flow better but, will need cut down to lower combustion volume + i'd have the guides cut down at the same time also so you run more life later.

as for the cam selection i'd have to agree thats realy not the ticket though.

check in to the xfi grinds comp sells, 114 lsa around 475-550 lift at rockers would be the ticket imo. You need to run a little lift to tap in to the performance a good set of heads can reveal. Factory ported heads can support a 268 grind without a problem so i'd say you're better off going bigger on the lift side and smaller the duration side as tpi dies at 4,500-5,500 rpms. While your at it port the full intake to reveal some extra revs.

anyways i think you've got the general idea g/l

oxrabidus

Where can I find those heads? or would the torquer heads be better?

flaming-ford

iTrader: (7)

technically the torquers are probably best out of those heads but, all 3 are a huge improvement


as for the 305 debate vs 350 it's old and dumb everyone who has a brain knows the bigger cube engine is definetly more powerful. Either way it's not at all worthless to build a smaller cube motor. If thats your opinion then i can always throw in why build a 350 when you can build a 400, or a 383 or 377 or whatever thats bigger...........

you can make 305s fairly fast and if the engines solid and you only want 300hp or so to the wheels, then its the best ticket imo, its the most efficient on gas revs a little faster due to the lessened weight of the rotating assembly, definetly a fine engine nothing special but, its still a sbc.

definetly nothing wrong with it in the least and its far from a waste of money but, thats just my 2 cents.

although i would try and keep everything swappable to a 350 cube motor if i were you because, speed is a bug once you start modifying *fast*isnt enough when you can have *faster*.

Before you know it it's a outlaw 10.5 car haha

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Please dont turn this into another 305 vs 350 flame fest. Its been done before and the horse is long dead.

The 305 Vortec heads arent the same as the 350's. They dont flow nearly as well.

oxrabidus

Another thing...kinda off topic but no one has answered this question...will 215/70R15 in the front and 275/60R15 in the back fit without any problem if I wer to lower the car and inch?

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

That can be said of the 520s. The 059s are much better animals. I have a pair on a 305 and they flow every bit as well as the 350s, given they have a smaller 1.84" intake valve and tighter 58cc combustion chamber. If I hear the 059s don't flow nearly as well as the 062/906s, I think I am going that person, JK. Anyway I have actual flow numbers from a pair that are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. They really do smack around the 081 TPI 305 heads. The 305 Vortec mades 230 Net HP @ 4,600 without the help of TPI, the L98 sized cam, and dual catalyst.

Lift-----Intake-----Exhaust
.050----36--------28
.100----68--------47
.200----128-------103
.300----179-------138
.400----205-------152
.500----221-------163
.600----225-------165

Drac0nic

Yeah, I pretty much agree with what's been said here so far. You've got way too much cam for the intake you want to run. For a 305 setup I'd consider the 214/224 cam or something similar intake duration in a roller, provided your block has provisions for it. If you do the majority of your port work on the exhaust side (read up MAJORLY on port work before you play with it, easy to damage stuff with a grinder) you can probably decrease the exhaust duration so that it is closer to the intake duration. As for duration versus lift, lift is usually easier to work with in regards to the ECU, it sounds like you're going to be taking the motor past its' stock limits. Find someone who can cut you a chip, and/or do a custom tune for it. Preferably not mail order.

If you can find a set of those Vortec 305 heads they may be worth using, however I'd be tempted to do the S/Rs for the reason that the Vortecs require the Scoggin Dickey TPI base, and it's $$$ so be sure to factor it into your decision. It may also be an excuse to upgrade to a different/better intake altogether. With the right supporting mods the Vortecs definitely make a good foundation for a hot little motor. If you plan it right there's no reason you can't pull decent power from a 305, and if you plan it better there's no reason those parts can't be used on a 350 short block later if the urge for more power comes up. I'd rather have a well set up 305 than a poorly set up 350 any day.

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

I'de rather not spend the cash doing anything outrageous to a 305, but also I would NEVER pull out a good running 305 to do a 350 swap. You can get decent power and never have to pull the engine if you do a good port job to the base, plenum, and runners buy some long tubes and a good 3in exhaust, and do the supporting mods. After this you can consider a warmer camshaft and 1.6 roller rockers. I really wouldn't buy heads for a 305 considering the ones on them aren't all that bad in the first place. If I ever were to buy heads for a 305 I would get the Vortecs and purchase the Vortec base Stealth Ram; these heads can later be swapped to a 350 block. However when you do swap them over you still have the smaller valves and combustion chamber. To me it is the best choice to stick with the 305 long block and get what you can out of that. Save the cash you would've spent on heads and an intake base for a newer 350 Vortec engine and when you swap that in throw a Stealth Ram on it. I just can't see any point in buying parts twice, or doing excess work.

oxrabidus

I found some Kieth Black domed pistons that make 11.2:1 compression with 58cc heads and 10.3:1 with 64cc heads, they are speciffically made for the 305...would the dome limit the amount of lift i can get?

socal

i have a vortec 5.0 long block to put in my 91z now the 350 is better for power overall but well i already have it and what better to do with it. so i say go for it

oxrabidus

How good is the Accel Super ram? I read it extends the rpm range a litte more...what size injctors should I get? 24lb/hr, or stock?

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Do you have smog check where you live?

oxrabidus

No I do not...and even so im not worried about it I live in Florida...we dont have to pass an emissions test...

oxrabidus

Nope....eben so, not worried about it...the rules are not so strict in florida...

flaming-ford

iTrader: (7)

probably be best off with 24lb hour minimum i'd say, factory 350 injectors are 22lb hour and that engine from factory made 240wheel fwhp, i'd say a fully built 305 not stroked but, good head, cam selection and good intake can net you around 350fwhp minimum, although that includes nice exhaust, intake, cai, runners the works.

Guest

Keep in mind the vortec heads wont work with the factory TPI base, you'd need to replace it or do a bunch of custom work to make it fit.
Might look into Trick Flow or some small valve AFR's as well if you really want to stick with the 305. But, please, do us all a favor and totally forget that .060 idea. Boring an engine out to get a scant few more cubic inches is such a waste of time... and doing that to that poor little 305 may ruin it, these blocks arent exactly cast all perfectly. Stick with what you need to clean up the bore and provide the right clearance for the pistons being used, and leave it at that. If you really are dead set on old school and overboring for cubes, why stop at that? May as well offset grind the crank too.

1fastam

iTrader: (1)

hey ox,put 215-65-15 on the front & 255-60-15 on the back or else they will rub,front when turning,rear when hitting bumps ,i have 7 in. wheels up front,8 in. in the rear.hope this helps,jimmy

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

If you don't have smog then ignore the Super Ram you'll pay a huge permium for the carb certification stuff. Go with the Stealth Ram.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Has that become one of those myths like all IROCs are TPI, the speed density 305's have the peanut cam, and you need a custom chip every time you sneeze on a MAP engine?

oxrabidus

Those are the tires I have on there now...but thanks for the input...and I always figured that boring an engine ave it a little extra kick....

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

If you're looking for extra kick, get a 350 or 400. Sounds like you just want to go fast? Why fool around with a 305. Throw a set of vortecs on a 400 and you'll make over 400 hp and run 12's in the quarter.

oxrabidus

Yes I have heard all that before...with the stealth ram intake would the rpm range be increseased? if so how much...

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Yes, and alot. Check out www.stealthram.com it has alot of info on it or try a search on the boards. I've not heard of anyone being let down by a stealth ram swap.

oxrabidus

Fantastic....it comes with everything necessary... the ecu and wiring harness it comes with controls the entire engine? or just the fuel injection system?

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

It's just the intake, and the fuel rails. You use the factory ECM, injectors etc.

oxrabidus

Well I saw a package tha includes a Holley Commander 950, with all the wires and injectors....or should I just get the manifold and top plenum with the stock ecu and stuff?

oxrabidus

I also saw a set of AFR heads with 56cc combustion chambers made for he smaller sized motors(305, 307, etc...) would these outflow the S/R heads? they are also made of aluminium....

Drac0nic

what about 18 degree heads? They have small chambers.

oxrabidus

Well if you are talking about the GM 18 heads....they have combustion chambers that are for 9:1 with a 350....they also have 15 heads that have 36cc combustion chambers....but the compression would be really high....I dont think you could drive that with even premium gas, which is what I use now.....but I dont know.....maybe....would those work with the stealth ram?

Drac0nic

It was a joke regardless, I would imagine 18 deg heads "might" be over kill.

Guest

I think you need some... scratch that... a LOT more background. Chamber size is only half the equation at best... not to mention you wont be using a TPI on anything other than 23 degree heads unless you've got some bankroll and lots of time to kill.

Premium on a stock 305 with... TBI? Talk about throwing money away. I'd put down the Hot Rod and Car Craft and take 2 steps back.

oxrabidus

Sure...I guess I can never escape being ridiculed...what can you do...anyway thanks for the tips guys...the ones that helped...I will build it and then post some videos somewhere so that everyone can watch...Thanks.

Guest

Well sticking to the original question rather than getting off on a tangent, whats the current plan for the build?

91TTOPZ

iTrader: (4)

Go for it and keep us posted I have 91 305 TPI and have been looking into up grades with out replacing the drive train. I also agree that a strong 305 is well worth the time as long as it is kept in perspective. 300 rwhp gets done the road in a hurry, and with the torque of the TPI a lot of fur to drive.
John

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

You absolutly don't need the entire setup. You need the manifold (plenum is included with this) and the fuel rail kit to complete the swap. Just look at the link I sent it has a comprehensive price list, several members on here have also done the same swap.

oxrabidus

The plan is Trickflow heads(56cc), XFI Cam, Manley Race Flo Valves, Stealth Ram intake, and a new TPI harness...mine is all messed up right now, corroded wires and stuff...My goal is to make a sleeper, something to surprise people...a lot of subtle weight reduction, I am gonna make a stock appearing fiberglass hood, and lightweight windows...yeah...the works...It should be pretty quick I hope...

1991CamaroRslow

iTrader: (3)

Or you could buy a Vortec 350 engine from the junk yard, do the basic weight reduction mods, bolt a Vortec base stealth ram to it and be faster than you would be with lexan windows and the works with a 305 powering the car. Not to mention it would cost you about 1/18th as much. Another wicked approach to making a sleeper is to pull your base and install an under manifold direct port nitrous kit jetted for around 170hp. You'll run deep into the 12's and as long as you don't lean out or get detonation it should last quite a while. When it finally does torch go ahead and put a forged piston 350 under that same sneaky intake and go even faster.

socal

i have a vortech 305 and think its poinless to build it unless its a class restriction thing or it is very cheap or free like mine thats the only reson im even considering puting it in, was that it was free if you wont power help me out and buy my 5.7 tpi and rape it

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Trick flow heads at 56cc's? You're going to have to cut a HUGE amount of material off them. Make sure you have it done right.
Second, the Trick Flow heads already come with undercut stem valves, and the Manley Race Flow valves are overkill for that setup. Get the Street Flow instead, part number 10721-8 (1.5") and 10722-8 (1.94"). Or, I think the Trick Flows only come with 2.02"/1.60" ?? If that's the case, do they work with the 305's small bore size? Manley Street Flow part numbers for those are 10765-8 (1.60") and 10766-8 (2.02"). I have those on my Trick Flow heads.
There is a very small selection of good heads for a 305. The World Products S/R Torquer 305's seem to be the ones most chosen.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Trick Flow has a pair of 175cc port heads that have 56cc chambers for small displacement small blocks. They have 1.94/1.50" valves in them and flow 245/180 in a 305 bore.

ZZ4 heads work very well on a 305.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Dude, the only way (IMO) to make power on a 305 is forced induction. Dual turbo, or a supercharger will wake up your 305 more than any vortech head or intake. And you don't have to dig into it either. Thats the way I am going. My 305 has 30K miles on it and it holds great oil pressure. A turbo set up will be bad *** with the 305.

Guest

The only place that 305 will live is high RPM's.

If you want a 'sleeper', ditch the 305 and build a 400. Externally they're very hard to tell apart but the power curves are entirely different.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

This is exactly what I said earlier. If you want a sleeper, if you want something fast, why are you pissing around with a 305? News flash, 305's are not cool. Go to any real racing event and you'll see that. People know that you have to stick a ton of money into them to get them anywhere and in the end you'll still be a step behind. No one here is trying to be mean, they are just trying to save you from trouble.

Drac0nic

most have 2 core plugs in the side of the block, instead of the 3 that is normal with a 305/350.

Guest

Yes, and they are very hard to see under everything else unless someone REALLY wants to know.