I'm about to buy a set of heads for the IROC. Since the sportsman II & TFS 23* heads are only $50 apart in price I'm torn. I know the TFS heads will probably outflow the sportman heads, but don't you give up a lot of streetability with aluminum?

I've heard of aluminum heads having core shift problems plus being extremely susceptible to problems if the car overheats (something that can't be helped in traffic occasionally). I want the best performance, but I also want a set of heads that will hold up for 50,000+ miles w/o needing work.

Please don't suggest AFR or other heads (unless they're about the same price), I'm on a tight budget.

thanks,


------------------
87 IROC-Z, 5.7, auto, 3.27, leather, !cat, Holley fpr, K&N'S, SLP 1-3/4" Jet-Hot coated headers, SLP .218/.224 .495/.502 cam, Comp 1.5 roller tip rockers, $uperPITAram, Edelbrock lower intake, Holley 52mm tb, Dynomax\Flowmaster catback. Coming Soon(?)- Fasttrack/Accell DFI

1989 Pontiac 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am - 161,000 miles, !cat, 9" K&N

 

IROCZ,

If you are seeking durability, cast iron is the way to go. Aluminum heads have hardened inserts for the valve seats, which can wear and loosen. As you mentioned, they are less thermally stable castings. They tend to be less forgiving of the occasional detonation and overheating, overtorqed fastener, and coolant loss.

Cast iron is easier to machine, repair, weld, and modify. Cast iron is a little heavier, adn doesn't conduct heat as well as aluminum, but there are ways to offset that as well. I prefer the iron for heavy port work, becausse they can be filled and ported much father than aluminum, and can be made stronger with thinner sections. You can also repair the valve seats and induction harden the iron more easily than aluminum, and it is almost impossible to install 2.20" valves in aluminum heads because of the seat restrictions.

If you are wanting to push the envelope and need the weight reduction and extras cooling, aluminum is the answer. If you need reliability and ever want to repair or heavily modify the heads, iron is much better suited to your car. If you're planning nitrous or a turbo/blower, go with the iron.

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"What a Day..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Thanks for the info. The sportsman IIs are the only real performance cast iron head on the market right? I just found out I can get a set brand new locally for $700.

I doubt I'll be running a blower or a turbo anytime soon, but I will be putting alot of miles on the car & it can get pretty hot down here.

How do you offset the poorer heat conduction of cast iron? I'm not really worried about the weight since my car is already loaded w/ leather interior & every option.

thanks,
Dan

------------------
87 IROC-Z, 5.7, auto, 3.27, leather, !cat, Holley fpr, K&N'S, SLP 1-3/4" Jet-Hot coated headers, SLP .218/.224 .495/.502 cam, Comp 1.5 roller tip rockers, $uperPITAram, Edelbrock lower intake, Holley 52mm tb, Dynomax\Flowmaster catback. Coming Soon(?)- Fasttrack/Accell DFI

1989 Pontiac 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am - 161,000 miles, !cat, 9" K&N

 

Get the sportsman's and have them bowl ported
and get the intake and exhaust runners opened up and polished. It should cost about $600 depending on the shop, but it is well worth it. You won't be happy with them out of the box. Run 10:1 with the cast iron, and 11:1 and up with the aluminum.

You should try the swap meets and used parts classified for some used heads. Then you would have the extra money to get them ported. Check the classifieds. New heads aren't 'better' heads.

Here is a good set for you:

https://www.thirdgen.org/internal/cl....cfm?adid=2610



[This message has been edited by 89gta383 (edited April 15, 2001).]

 

What people don’t realize is that you want the heat to stay in the combustion chamber. Loss of heat from the combustion chamber equals loss of performance. Aluminum heads act like a heat sink and will draw heat away from the chamber. Cast iron heads do a much better job of retaining heat in the combustions chamber. That is why you want to go with a higher compression ratio when using aluminum heads. Aluminum heads have become more popular because they are easier to produce and are very easy to machine and port because of easy metal removal. More time and effort is needed to machine or port cast iron heads. Brzezinski Racing in Pewaukee, Wisonconsin, has been a pioneer in cylinder head performance and flow technology and his techniques have been used by many other performance head porters and manufacturers. Brzezinski prefers to use cast iron heads because they are thermo dynamically superior to aluminum heads.

------------------
N/A 406, TPIS Miniram, 58mm TB, 30lbs injectors, Custom Ground Elgin Cam, Ported TFS heads, SLP 1-3/4", & DFI computer.
11.70@117mph

 

<table BORDER COLS=4 WIDTH="75%" ><tr><td>Category</td><td>World Products - Sportsman II</td><td>Dart Machine - Iron Eagle</td><td>Best Choice</td></tr><tr><td>Intake Runner Choices</td><td>1 - 200cc</td><td>5 - 165cc to 230cc</td><td>Iron Eagle</td></tr><tr><td>Intake Flow</td><td>very good</td><td>fair to good for the 165cc, 180cc and 200cc runners
very good for the 215cc and 230cc runners</td><td>Sportsman II for 350 - 383 cid
Iron Eagle for 383+ cid</td></tr><tr><td>Exhaust Flow</td><td>poor</td><td>very good for 165cc - 200cc
good for 215cc &amp; 230cc</td><td>Iron Eagle</td></tr><tr><td>Intake/ Ehaust ratio</td><td>poor</td><td>very good</td><td>Iron Eagle</td></tr><tr><td>Combustion chamber</td><td>poor</td><td>good</td><td>Iron Eagle</td></tr><tr><td>Price</td><td>about $750 for assembled heads(no extra machining)</td><td>about $800 for assembled heads(no extra machining</td><td>Sportman II</td></tr><tr><td>Overall</td><td>2 category wins</td><td>4 category win</td><td>Iron Eagle</td></tr>
</table>

It should be noted that Spotsman II heads were originally designed by
Dart Machine(they sold them as Dart II's). As such the design dates back
to the mid-70's. The Iron Eagle line-up shows refinement in the combustion
chamber and has much more efficient exhaust ports.

 

wow, did you do that yourself? thanks for the comparison. I always wondered what the deal was between those two. that 10% summit discount applies to EVERYTHING right?



------------------
87 IROC-Z, 5.7, auto, 3.27, leather, !cat, Holley fpr, K&N'S, SLP 1-3/4" Jet-Hot coated headers, SLP .218/.224 .495/.502 cam, Comp 1.5 roller tip rockers, $uperPITAram, Edelbrock lower intake, Holley 52mm tb, Dynomax\Flowmaster catback. Coming Soon(?)- Fasttrack/Accell DFI

1989 Pontiac 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am - 161,000 miles, !cat, 9" K&N

 

the table was my own doing - created it in Dreamweaver 3, opened the html file in Notepad, trimmed extra code out, performed a cut on the compacted code and pasted into the UBB editor. it sounds complicated, but only takes about 1 1/2 minutes for the table above.

the table is kind of my train of logic of why the Iron Eagle is a better head. as such it represents only my opinion, and it wouldn't hurt for you to gather more opinions and do more research if you are considering either of these heads.

both of these heads could benefit from extra machining - port-matching and polishing the intake runners, polishing the exhaust runners - some of which you can do at home. However, the Iron Eagle's water passages have been enlarged and relocated(for better cooling) and polishing the bowl should be left to someone who has experience with these heads. If you order these heads from Dart Machine they can do a full CNC on the valve seats and bowls for you(though it probably isn't cheap).

Good Luck!

btw, if you are buying bare heads from Summit, the Sportsman II is only $4.50/head cheaper than the Iron Eagle($545.00 vs $549.50).

[This message has been edited by 88IROCs (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

Well, I know iron heads are better when it comes to durability, BUT aluminum heads are better in many ways. Yes, iron heads retain more heat, but you can't really have good compression with them. Aluminum heads are much easier to modify and the weight difference aint no joke.
Bottom line is: if you want good gas mileage and smooth running engine with good reliability, go with iron heads. If you want power and lightweight, go aluminum.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by F22Raptor:
Yes, iron heads retain more heat, but you can't really have good compression with them.
Because iron heads retain more heat, they make more power. Aluminum heads usually need a full point more compression to make the same power as cast-iron heads.

Aluminum heads are much easier to modify and the weight difference aint no joke.
Actually the weight difference is over-rated. If you go by the old hot-rodders maxim that says: "Every 100 lbs you lose is worth a tenth", then the 80 lbs you might save from a pair of aluminum heads is only worth 0.08 seconds.

Bottom line is: if you want good gas mileage and smooth running engine with good reliability, go with iron heads. If you want power and lightweight, go aluminum.
The bottom line is: most of the aftermarket cylinder head development has gone into aluminum heads, so that is a definite advantage if you can afford AFR's, FastBurns, E-Tec's, etc.,... The reason for this is simple - aluminum is easier to melt and pour. But unless you make the requisite mods to bump your compression, you may end up making less power by buying an aluminum head that flows the same as a comparble iron head.

Another big disadvantage to aluminum heads is the price. A pair of Sportsman II's or Iron Eagle's cost less fully assembled than a pair of bare aluminum castings. That's money that could be spent on other parts that will take advantage of your new higher flowing heads(i.e., upgraded intake, better valvetrain components).

I'd say if your at the point where you need to lose weight to go faster, or you have a motor that can take advantage of the flow capabilities of a set of AFR's or Canfields, then buy aluminum. If not, then spend the money where it will do the most good.

 

HMMM...I have a 383 TPI motor with iron Sportsman's (12.55 E.T. @110.17mph) with a compression ratio of 10.3 that runs on pump gas without a problem. I know of a few other motors that run iron heads that run 9.8-10.5 compression ratios on pump gas without problems and run 12-second E.T's. But I guess those really aren't good compression ratios for you F22Raptor. With better heat retention in the chamber, the combustion process has become more efficient thus better mileage. I'd have to say that my 383 iron head motor runs very smooth with no knock retard coming up on the Tech-1 scan tool using pump gas. As far as reliability, that 383 was built in 96 and is still pulling 12-second ET's.
As far as the weight saving, a 50-80lb. weight savings will only net you 2-tenths of a gain in ET at most. I know a few Turbo T-Type guys that switched to fiberglass bumpers and aluminum bumper supports (easy 100lb. weight savings) that report gains of no more than 2-tenths ET gains at most. I can easily make up 2-tenths in motor tuning/modifications.

------------------
N/A 406, TPIS Miniram, 58mm TB, 30lbs injectors, Custom Ground Elgin Cam, Ported TFS heads, SLP 1-3/4", & DFI computer.
11.70@117mph

[This message has been edited by FAST LiFE (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

Fast LiFe,

You bring up a good point. It used to be assumed that the max. 'safe' CR for iron was 9.5:1 and aluminum 10.5:1. But there is a lot more to consider than the material the heads are cast from. Combustion chamber shape, spark plug location, camshaft timing, rod/stroke ratio, and ignition advance(probably forgetting a few factors) can all have an effect on how much compression a motor will tolerate. Guess it shows you have take 'hard and fast rules' with a grain of salt and a big helping of knowledge.

A few years back, one of the car mags built a 352 cid smallblock(4.155" bore x 3.25" stroke) and ran 11:1 CR with 87 octane and no detonation - max advance was 36&deg; - and managed 435 lb/ft and 412 hp. So how did they do it? The big bore and short stroke allowed them to use 6.200" rods and arrive at a rod/stroke ratio of 1.9:1(stock 350 ratio is < 1.64). That caused the piston dwell time to increase and the resultant increase in cylinder pressure prevented detonation.

Kinda shows what you can achieve when you have some knowledge and throw out the 'rules'.

[This message has been edited by 88IROCs (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

With all the advantages of the cast iron heads, how come all these companies, AFR, Edlebrock, Trick Flow, ect only have aluminum heads?

------------------
1987 Chevy Camaro IROC-Z
L98 TPI 350 (5.7L)
TH 700R-4 Transmission
Borg Warner 7.75" 9 Bolt Rear End

Current Mods: LT4 HOT Cam, Comp Cams 1.52:1 Roller Rocker Arms, Edelbrock TES 1 5/8" Headers, Hooker 3" Aerochamber Cat-Back System, Performance Resource Chip, Accel Ignition Coil, Cap, Rotor, 8.8mm Wires, K&N Filters, JET TPI Air Foil, All Free Mods, Falken ZIEX Z-Rated Tires.

Best ET (w/o LT4 cam): 14.32 @ 97.7mph
(corrected for elevation)

Soon to Come: 7.625" 10 Bolt with 3.42s and Accel TPI Intake Base

 

Easier to produce.

I have a brand F car running 10.5:1 with iron heads, and I cant get it to detonate, I tried. Unfortunately I want a better head and theres nothing in the way of cast iron out there so Im stuck with aluminum. I guess its a tossup in some respects, but cast iron is definitely more durable and detonation friendly.

 

Aluminum is a much easier material to cast and machine as opposed to iron. Performance head porters love aluminum heads because of how easy it is to remove material and it is easier to repair that cast iron.
I’m not putting down aluminum heads, I use them myself, but people have been “brainwashed” into thinking that the only performance head out there is an aluminum head.
Air Flow Research is one of the more superior head manufacturers out there, but not because their heads are made of aluminum but because of the development that has gone into their port and chamber design. Makes you wonder why Air Flow Research has included Pro Action cast iron heads into their catalog line-up. Cheaper alternative to their aluminum heads yet retain outstanding performance that AFR is known for.


------------------
N/A 406, TPIS Miniram, 58mm TB, 30lbs injectors, Custom Ground Elgin Cam, Ported TFS heads, SLP 1-3/4", & DFI computer.
11.70@117mph

 

I am so glad to finally see a great post outlining that cast iron DOES have its place too and that alumimum doesn't necessarily make it better.

Though not mentioned, I ALWAYS have to state one of the reasons I like cast iron: stripping of threads and galling. Being a former "motorcycle enthusiast", I have had plenty of "fun times" with aluminum and bolts. Few of my friends will allow their children to be around when I start to work with anything made of aluminum. There generally is some pretty colorful language involved.

 

AFR makes iron heads???? tell me more, I've never heard that.

I think I'm covered as far as airflow goes. I just hope my piece of crap superram can hang w/ those bad boy miniram guys.



------------------
87 IROC-Z, 5.7, auto, 3.27, leather, !cat, Holley fpr, K&N'S, SLP 1-3/4" Jet-Hot coated headers, SLP .218/.224 .495/.502 cam, Comp 1.5 roller tip rockers, $uperPITAram, Edelbrock lower intake, Holley 52mm tb, Dynomax\Flowmaster catback. Coming Soon(?)- Fasttrack/Accell DFI

1989 Pontiac 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am - 161,000 miles, !cat, 9" K&N

 

No, AFR does not make cast iron heads, but they also sell the Pro Action Lightning cast iron heads. Pro Action is a separate company that has entered into a co-marketing arrangement with AFR.

This is what was explained to me when I contatcted AFR a few months ago about the Pro Action heads.

The Pro Action heads are also non-emission legal and intended for "off-road" use. But, then again, so is all the other "fun parts" for our cars.

 

This is a good topic.

Every1 has always told me to get AFR 190's-210's for the IROC-Z 350 TPI that I want to make an 11-12 sec. or better car, without a MR or SR that can be driven whenever I want, (when I get it) and now every1's saying to go with different heads!!



[This message has been edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8 (edited April 17, 2001).]

 

From what I understand, Pro Action is a performance cylinder head manufacturer from Australia. AFR added Pro Action to their line-up as lower cost alternative to their aluminum heads. From what I hear, they offer very good flow numbers and they aren’t even ported like the AFR aluminum heads.

------------------
N/A 406, TPIS Miniram, 58mm TB, 30lbs injectors, Custom Ground Elgin Cam, Ported TFS heads, SLP 1-3/4", & DFI computer.
11.70@117mph

 

Yes, definately a good post.

Glad to see that I am not the only one who speaks the colorful language of Aluminum & Bolts.

 

I feel as glenn does when it comes to AL. I have stripped more than my share of bolt holes in my life, evgen when trying to be careful. With that in mind, the odds of me running an AL head are pretty slim, cuz it would be a short matter of time before i ended up in a big mess over a stripped plug or something. Then you take into account the AL's greater tendency to warp with overheating (which can happen to anybody.) and to me, the odds of something bad happening b/c of the AL is too great.
It's a shame though, AL vette heads would go really nice on my LB9, and usually you can find 'em cheap.
....ed

 

Well if any one wants some 76cc sportsman IIs I know of a set WITH comp cams self-aligning roller tips for $600. Since I don't want 7.5:1 comp. ratio I had to pass.

How do these proaction heads stack up against the iron eagle? Oh yeah, will any of them let me keep the egr? I don't feel like disabling mine.

thanks,


------------------
87 IROC-Z, 5.7, auto, 3.27, leather, !cat, Holley fpr, K&N'S, SLP 1-3/4" Jet-Hot coated headers, SLP .218/.224 .495/.502 cam, Comp 1.5 roller tip rockers, $uperPITAram, Edelbrock lower intake, Holley 52mm tb, Dynomax\Flowmaster catback. Coming Soon(?)- Fasttrack/Accell DFI

1989 Pontiac 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am - 161,000 miles, !cat, 9" K&N

 

Why don't you just get those 76CC heads angle milled to 64CC or 58CC? Around here it only costs around $100 to have that done.


------------------
N/A 406, TPIS Miniram, 58mm TB, 30lbs injectors, Custom Ground Elgin Cam, Ported TFS heads, SLP 1-3/4", & DFI computer.
11.70@117mph

 

Damn dude, get the dart's and have them milled and fully ported. That's all you need. They will flow better than AFR's after porting.

 

How much of a difference in gas mileage can you expect?

 

Then I'd have to get my intake cut & it would be useless if I changed heads later on.

 

Actually the proper procudure when angle mlling heads is to angle mill the intake face of the heads also, not the intake manifold itself.

------------------
N/A 406, TPIS Miniram, 58mm TB, 30lbs injectors, Custom Ground Elgin Cam, Ported TFS heads, SLP 1-3/4", & DFI computer.
11.70@117mph

 

Buy the trick flow heads over the sportsman II or Dart heads. The trick flow heads are designed to last over 100,000 miles. They have superior ports designs and combustion chamber designs. Will work with center bolt valve covers and intake manifold bolt patterns and the heads are easier to modify if you want to upgrade in the future. Alum heads do need higher compression ratio's to acheive the same efficency as cast iron heads. The one point higher compression ratio that alum heads will tolerate over cast iron heads will eliminate any efficency advantage of the cast iron heads over the alum heads. The higher heat rejection of the alum heads will allow you to run higher water temperatures before you will experience detonation. A cast iron head might experience detonation at water temperatures of 200 while an alum head may not experience detonation until 220 degrees.

If all things were equal the cast iron head would be the best alternative, but all things are not equal and the trick flow head is the better choice.

If alum heads were so bad why does G.M. put alum heads on their current performance engines? (L-98 Corvette, LT-1, LS-1)

------------------
1988 Formula 5L/5sp 3.45 gears, SLP cold air kit, MAS gutted, TPIS air foil, TPIS AFPR, MAC headers, Mac under drive pulleys, MAC cat back, Relocated MAT.
Best ET street tires 13.85
Best 60 FT street tires 1.930
Best MPH street tires 99.29

 

As far as heat is concerned, you’re not going to want to run aluminum heads at higher temps than iron heads because they are more susceptible to warping. I can honestly say that I’ve run temps at 220-240 @ a 10.3 compression ratio without any problems of detonation, nor have friends with compression ratios at 10.5. Why would you really want to run compression ratios higher than that on a street motor?
No one ever said that iron heads were the better alternative, but they are a viable, cheaper alternative and shouldn’t be looked down upon just because of the material used. No one’s here to bash on aluminum heads, just expanding people’s mind to a cheaper alternative. Hell, I use aluminum heads on my 406.
As far as flow, you can get a set of Sportsman II’s race prepped (bowls blended and ports matched) from Herbert Performance Parts for the same price as the TFS 23* and it will flow close to the 23*, will be stronger material wise, will be more thermally efficient and won’t warp at higher heat ranges as easily as aluminum heads.
Why would GM use aluminum heads for their production performance heads? Because aluminum is cheaper to mass-produce than iron.


------------------
N/A 406, TPIS Miniram, 58mm TB, 30lbs injectors, Custom Ground Elgin Cam, Ported TFS heads, SLP 1-3/4", & DFI computer.
11.70@117mph

 

BJ

A couple of points.

Aluminum has lower heat rejection than cast-iron. This is why they they transfer more heat away from the combustion space and into the water jacket. The upshot, as been frequently mentioned, is aluminum head engines are less thermally efficient and make less power than cast iron heads on identical engines.

Most street-driven SBC's opoerate most efficiently if their water temps are within the 180 - 210&deg; F range. Because aluminum transfers more heat away from the combustion space and into the water jacket, you will probably have to upgrade your cooling system to keep the water temps in this range(especially if you bump CR to regain lost power). This is not to say that most cast-iron thirdgen's wouldn't benefit from some upgrade in their cooling system also.

admittedly, I now have a real bias in this debate(my Iron Eagles arrived yesterday - deciding now what machining I will do, and what I will pay to have done), but I think it's important to portray any info or opinions in a fact-based manner.

 

Here are some flow #'s that i have picked up for a few heads.

GM L98 163cc Intake 58cc Chamber
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 56 52
.200 120 120
.300 160 133
.400 186 150
.500 196 170
.600 199 175


World Products Sportsman 11
201cc Intake 72cc Chamber
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 68 57
.200 132 102
.300 187 131
.400 225 150
.500 240 164
.600 243 162


AirFlow Research Alum. 190cc Intake
76cc Chamber
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 71 67
.200 144 121
.300 208 157
.400 244 188
.500 262 202
.600 261 211


Dart Iron Eagle 180cc Intake
Valve Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 62 55
.200 126 109
.300 178 139
.400 209 160
.450 213 166
.500 209 169
.550 208 170
.600 208 172


World Product S/R Torquer 170cc Intake
67cc Chamber
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 68 55
.200 128 104
.300 179 140
.400 205 156
.500 221 166
.600 225 170

 

[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 88IROCs:

Quote:

Originally posted by F22Raptor:
Yes, iron heads retain more heat, but you can't really have good compression with them.
Because iron heads retain more heat, they make more power. Aluminum heads usually need a full point more compression to make the same power as cast-iron heads.

Aluminum heads are much easier to modify and the weight difference aint no joke.
Actually the weight difference is over-rated. If you go by the old hot-rodders maxim that says: "Every 100 lbs you lose is worth a tenth", then the 80 lbs you might save from a pair of aluminum heads is only worth 0.08 seconds.

Bottom line is: if you want good gas mileage and smooth running engine with good reliability, go with iron heads. If you want power and lightweight, go aluminum.
The bottom line is: most of the aftermarket cylinder head development has gone into aluminum heads, so that is a definite advantage if you can afford AFR's, FastBurns, E-Tec's, etc.,... The reason for this is simple - aluminum is easier to melt and pour. But unless you make the requisite mods to bump your compression, you may end up making less power by buying an aluminum head that flows the same as a comparble iron head.

Another big disadvantage to aluminum heads is the price. A pair of Sportsman II's or Iron Eagle's cost less fully assembled than a pair of bare aluminum castings. That's money that could be spent on other parts that will take advantage of your new higher flowing heads(i.e., upgraded intake, better valvetrain components).

I'd say if your at the point where you need to lose weight to go faster, or you have a motor that can take advantage of the flow capabilities of a set of AFR's or Canfields, then buy aluminum. If not, then spend the money where it will do the most good.

Why are you quoting me crack-o-zoid? Is anything I said false?
Aluminum heads are much much lighter than iron. I have personaly handled Vette aluminum heads and the heads from my GTA and the difference is pretty big; I almost dropped my iron heads the first time I lifted them.

 

Yeah whatever! That why all professional racers from prostock to top fuel run iron heads.
Nobody is forcing anybody to buy aluminum, I don't see what the hell is the problem here; but then again some people live to argue.

 

Why are you quoting me crack-o-zoid?
Hmmm, after giving-up 5 five 'samples' during the the last week(kidney infection), the Doc's found no sign of my narcotics addiction,... how strange! They should hire F22Crapper to do their tests from now on.
But back to your question(I kinda thought the answer would go without sayin). I quote to let you(or anyone else reading my post) know exactly what part of your post I am commenting on/replying to. By not truncating your sentences, I am making clear that it is not my intention to misquote you, or distort your meaning.
Clear enough for ya?

Is anything I said false?
Gosh I hate to break it to you so close to your 10th birthday but, your grip on reality is tenuous at best. You probably wouldn't know truth if it walked up to you and smacked you in the face. Then again, with your propensity for butting your head against brickwalls, I kind of doubt you have the command of any senses above the shoulders.

Aluminum heads are much much lighter than iron.
Yup, average iron head weighs 'bout 80 lbs, average aluminum one, 'bout 40. Guess that can be a killer when you haven't developed the muscle growth that comes with puberty(wait a few years, it'll happen for ya). Guess that extra 80 lbs is whats holding back my 3500+ lb car from turnin' 10's.

I have personaly handled Vette aluminum heads and the heads from my GTA and the difference is pretty big; I almost dropped my iron heads the first time I lifted them.
Might wanna hit the gym regularly, once your old enough to gain admittance.
The Doc's told me years ago never to lift more than 10kg(22lbs) again(old back injury), yet I still lift 50 - 60 lb packages on a regular basis, with no ill effects. Are you really that much worse off?

[This message has been edited by 88IROCs (edited April 22, 2001).]

 

FOC-K YOU!
You talk to me when you can bench press 300lbs and squat 400 lbs

 

Few days ago, ya can barely lift one cylinder head, and today yer benchin' 300. Sure,... whatever.

I think you've got pounds and ounces confused(Whatta surprise, ... NOT!!!)

Here pu$$y, pu$$y, pu$$y .

[This message has been edited by 88IROCs (edited April 22, 2001).]

 

locking post. Certain people need to chill out. You know who I am talking to.

[This message has been edited by Kevin G (edited April 23, 2001).]