Ok, to all you TPI experts out there, I am getting fed up with dumping money into something that does not seem to matter.

I turned a wonderful 10.086 in the 1/8th

I just returned from the track, I Was hoping for at least a 15.0, but noooooo, This car cannot get out of its own way. I turned a lousey 15.566 @ 91.5 mph.

Heck I even lost to a seemingly STOCK Mustang. at least he turned a 14.644 @ 96.88mph.

I don't know where I went wrong, I ported the intake, gasket matched the runners & ported & polished the base. AND I have the following mods....

I WANT anywhere in the 13's. and I am about to drop $3500 on a 383 and to say bye bye to my .040 over 305.

I am suspicious of the injectors, because they probably have about 160,000 miles on them. BUT I don't want to put money into my injectors if all I am going to do is replace my motor.


------------------
87 Formula 5.1 converted to TPI Yellow/Black
SLP Dur 206/212, Lift 480/487, Cent Line 112 cam, headers, cat-back exhaust
Ported & polished Stock TPI intake
Modified Stock cold air intake
Gil Younger (no yo-yo) Shift Kit
Aluminum Driveshaft
3.73 Posi gear
Baer 12" brakes 4 wheels
KYB AGX Adjustable Shocks & struts
Hotchkis strut tower brace
South side machine frame connecters
Custom reinforced control arms and pan hard bar.
Custom Leather interior
CUSTOM Yellow Gauge Faces

87 Formula TPI (5 Speed) Yellow/Gray STOCK

1967 Buick Riviera 430hp Turns high 14's (Not bad for 4300 lbs)

83 Camaro (Parts)
83 T/A (parts)

http://www.3rdgenformula.com

 

I know this sounds retarded, but does it feel like its running right? I mean little things like knock at the 1-2 upshift, hesitation off idle, etc. What was your 60'? That trap speed doesn't sound very promising... Sounds like you have all the right parts, just need some tuning. Whats your timing set at?

------------------
-Jason M. 1991 Camaro Z28

 

"I know this sounds retarded, but does it feel like its running right? I mean little things like knock at the 1-2 upshift, hesitation off idle, etc. What was your 60'? That trap speed doesn't sound very promising... Sounds like you have all the right parts, just need some tuning. Whats your timing set at?"

The car seems to idle fine, it does NOT hesetate off the line, it does not knock, or at least I have not heard it. My timing is set up at 6º, my 60' was 2.237, I had a horrible reaction time, but it still does not change the fact it is !@#$%^ Slow.

I am also running a stock 86 chip with the 87 car. I am not sure this is all the problem...

just call me poor and frustrated...

------------------
87 Formula 5.1 converted to TPI Yellow/Black
SLP Dur 206/212, Lift 480/487, Cent Line 112 cam, headers, cat-back exhaust
Ported & polished Stock TPI intake
Modified Stock cold air intake
Gil Younger (no yo-yo) Shift Kit
Aluminum Driveshaft
3.73 Posi gear
Baer 12" brakes 4 wheels
KYB AGX Adjustable Shocks & struts
Hotchkis strut tower brace
South side machine frame connecters
Custom reinforced control arms and pan hard bar.
Custom Leather interior
CUSTOM Yellow Gauge Faces

87 Formula TPI (5 Speed) Yellow/Gray STOCK

1967 Buick Riviera 430hp Turns high 14's (Not bad for 4300 lbs)

83 Camaro (Parts)
83 T/A (parts)

http://www.3rdgenformula.com

 

if you gonna stay with the 305, 3.73's are too much gears for it and for the TPI itself...I have the proof on my time slips...2nd, check if your O2 reads ok, because my car didn't, and when I changed it (as well with a tuned up) I gained 4mph and gained 6 tenth...so make sure the little stuff is where it's suposed to be. You have a cam in that motor so a low 14 should be it. Also, you still have stock heads, so don't expect to much of your 305...my buddie stock GTA 305 ran 16's (no mods at all) to low 17's...I've ran a guy with a Qjet and a camed 305 that ran 14.6 at 92 I think...here again stock heads...3500$ could get you far with your 305....it all depend what YOU wanna do!

 

Your camaro should be running about what the mustang ran you mentioned- high to mid 14s.

A few years back I had an 86 IROC with a 305 TPI that ran 9.83 in the 1/8 and 15.07 in the 1/4. The car-engine had 143,000 miles on it when it was run. The state of tune on this car was about as good as I could get it considering the following condition... I had 3 spark plug anti-foulers - smoked quite a bit... I had not done any intake port work but it did have an Airfoil... It only had 3.23 gears...No cat & Flowmaster Muffler...This car still had the tiny stock cam in it.

For the Mods that you have done to your car you should be running much quicker than what I did. I would go back and see if there is any mechanical problems with it. -BTW what was you 60ft time? You may have a traction problem with the 3.73s. Your 60ft time should be in the 1.95-2.10 range. I ran against (in my 89 roc)a 96 LT1 Trans Am with a 6 speed that only ran a 15.00 in the 1/4 because of tire spin and driver inexperience. Your 305TPI is good enough for high 12s (with the right combo)so I wouldn't write it off quite yet.

------------------
89 IROC-Z 5.7L
130,000 MILES
2.77 GEARS
K&Ns FILTERS
ALL FREE MODS
FLOWMASTER MUFFLER
PERFORMANCE RESOURCE CHIP
Best 1/4 E.T. 14.37 @ 95 MPH
Best 1/8 E.T. 9.22 @ 76 MPH
Best 60ft. 2.07

 

I agree your car should be running better with the mods you have listed. You really need a scanner cause you really can't hear the knock the computer hears.
How old are the sensors? A bad CTS will screw the computer up like you would not believe. Is the TPS set right? I got an inexpensive autoxray and I love the thing. No more guess work, is it knocking, is the o2 sensor working, how hot is the car running, is the tach correct? etc.


------------------
Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI
Edelbrock Hi-Flow Intake
SLP Dual Cold Air Intake
1 5/8" Headers
Semi-Siamesed Runners
MSD6AL/AdjFPR/IROC frnt@rear swaybar/wonderbar/steeringbox/alum drvshaft/ Alston SFC/3:23posi disc rear/MAC LCA/H.Adams Panhard Rod/KYB struts/ shocks/
92Z28convt5spd
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

 

Ok, Let medescribe some of the interesting little factors that I have noticed with my car...

1 - It seems WAAAAYYY slower than expected, from my mods, I was expecting at LEAST a flat 15, hoping for mid 14's, not a 15.56. EVEN with my 3.73's I can't break loose to save my life, The only way I could is to be on sand or on water. I have the TV cable adjusted for shifiting at 4000 RPM, When I manually shifted at 5000RPM it ran the 15.56. The first run I left it in Drive to get a 16.1.

2 - When sitting at a stop light, the idle is low, around 500-600RPM, and I get the Check engine light, for a Low O2 voltage. I rev the engine up to 700-800 RPM for 20sec. and the light goes out. Checked the TPS, it was originally at .54V, I put it up to .59V, it helped SOME but not a whole lot with this.

3 - To start I have to let the fuel pump run then stop, then I crank. When the car sits (more than 24 hours) it is really hard to start the first time. Even when I do this after the 24 hour sit period, it starts hard. If I let it sit for LESS than 24 hours it starts with no problems whatsoever, but I do have to let the Fuel Pump run until it stops.

4 - Without starting the car we did a Fuel Pressure test it went up to 43#, then it would slowly go down to about 33# and stay for a few seconds and then start to drop. It took almost 20 seconds to get to 33#. With the car Running it held pressure.

I just changed the Computer Temp sensor because mine went bad, (would not stay running when it was cold).
The O2 Sensor is still the original with 107k on it. I did happen to use my LG4 O2 Sensor, because I could get it out of my exhaust manifold. I am going to check my parts book tonight to see if there is a difference between the two.
I had a slight exhaust "tick" from the driver side headder, I tightened it up, to the head and it went away. I think I might still have this, but it is not really bad.


Hoope this helps...


------------------
87 Formula 5.1 converted to TPI Yellow/Black
SLP Dur 206/212, Lift 480/487, Cent Line 112 cam, SLP headers, SLP cat-back exhaust
Modified Stock cold air intake
Ported & polished Stock TPI intake
AC Rapidfire Spark Plugs.
Gil Younger (no yo-yo) Shift Kit
Aluminum Driveshaft
3.73 Posi gear
Baer 12" brakes 4 wheels
KYB AGX Adjustable Shocks & struts
Hotchkis strut tower brace
South side machine frame connecters
Custom reinforced control arms and pan hard bar.
Custom Leather interior
CUSTOM Yellow Gauge Faces

87 Formula TPI (5 Speed) Yellow/Gray STOCK

1967 Buick Riviera 430hp Turns high 14's (Not bad for 4300 lbs)

83 Camaro (Parts)
83 T/A (parts)

http://www.3rdgenformula.com

[This message has been edited by okfoz (edited June 18, 2001).]

 

test

 

You can dump money into anything and get no results,even a 383.Try some basics like changing plugs,o2 sensor,make sure there are no trouble codes, and do compression test on your cylinders. I think you have a problem in the fuel system tried running the gauge (fp) around town to ensure max pressure is holding. I think you got a fault injector or fp regulator.Do the basics first then move on to other aspects like your transmission does shift firm any slippage.
My old bird had many of the same mods and was a high 13 car so I should be in the high 14's soon.

 

I ordered an adjustable Fuel pressure regulator on friday, I bought the Holley. I am thinking about changing the O2 sensor, running some fuel injector cleaner through it, and seeing how things go from there.

John

 

I have heard that some injector cleaner is bad for the O2 sensor. I may be wrong, but if you buy a new sensor, run the cleaner first, then replace the sensor. Just a thought.



------------------
Joshua Johnston
1991 Z-28
Flowmaster
K&N
305 / 5spd. (Temporary)

 

Remember that adjustable fuel pressure regulators must be dialed in so if you can get a liquid filled gauge and mount it to the schrader valve so you can moniter the pressure.Also I think your injectors might be bad.Hope you have a scan tool.

 

the O2 from your lg4 is the same, but as others said i would just change it due to the fact that it has a crap load of miles on it....

------------------
85 Z28- 350, Comp 262, Edelbrock Performer intake, Edelbrock 600 cfm carb and Edelbrock cat back, Summit headers and vette servo
-JVC, Eclipse, Pioneer, MTX, Phoenix Gold, Planet Audio

 

Is it just me or does that sound WAY too slow. I mean, I've got a friend that ran 14.9 on a stock (he has a flowmaster) automatic 91 Z28. Maybe they have a little more HP, but with that trap speed he should be in high 13's. I ran 14.2 at 97.55mph on a stock 350. If his trap speed is faster, should he be running high 13's atleast. Maybe it's not so much of a mechincal problem as it is traction? I'm far from a expert in this area... just curious.

------------------
91 Z28
Mods: SLP Exhaust, umm...nothing else..sorry

Stereo: Alpine 855, Infinity Kappas all around, Infinity 150x2 amp (POS), Infinity Perfect 10 in hatch.

Webpage coming soon.

 

Well, let me throw in my $0.02!
Your 60' times seem ok, just that they could be down a little more. However, 0.3 seconds is not going to make the difference.
I feel, and you memtioned it, it is your chip! You can't do the mods you did and then use a 86 CHIP for your 87 CAR! This is just not going to happen!
You have to have a custom chip for your mods!! Your 87 engine had a cam with a duration of 179/194 and I don't even know what a 86 engine had but your new cam is 206/212 with a LSA of 112!!! That's a BIG difference!
Also Your SES light coming on, at idle, may be due to the VE tables in the chip being wrong and your runing lean.
As for the fuel pressure it shouldn't drop right way after you shut the motor off, in fact it should stay at the running pressure for at least 15 minutes if not more. So that could be a problem there with either the fuel pump, injectors or pressure regulator. Good idea to change the regulator to an adjustable then see what happens.
I hope it helps but I think it is the chip.

good Luck!


------------------
89 IROC 350 Auto
Custom DUAL Exhaust
Edelbrock Performer 6085 Aluminum Heads
ZZ9 Cam
TPIS Level 5 Chip
And Free mods.

Moderator of http://www.iroczone.com

Member of JFA Crew

 

When I put the Fuel Pressure gauage on her ant ran the engine the FP stayed up fine. When the car was not running, but had the ignition ON, FP would drop...

Interestingly though, Since there has been chance of rain for the past few days, I have not been driving her. So I tried to start her last night. Here is what I found interesting:

The FP would run when I turned on the ignition but I did not try to start the car. When the FP stoped, I would begin crank and after a few seconds of cranking I would stop and turn the car off...BUT, get this, the FP would continue to run. Is that NORMAL???

I am wondering if I dont have a bad FP relay... amongst some other things....

thoughts anywone????

John
See sig above

 

I checked the Fuel Pressure with a REAL Fuel pressure tester, instead of my makeshift one, and it checked out. It also held pressure up even after I turned off the engine. 42#-43#.

So I have at least a good Fuel Pump, I also checked for volume and the engine did not even quibble a bit. This is good, it looks like I will be able to spend my weekend with my girlfriend instead of pulling the gas tank to replace the Fuel Pump.

I am installing my Holley Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator tonight, (My honey is going to a concert with a friend.) :O

Hopefully this will help some, I am starting to think INJECTERS!!!



------------------
87 Formula 5.1 converted to TPI Yellow/Black
SLP Dur 206/212, Lift 480/487, Cent Line 112 cam, SLP headers, SLP cat-back exhaust
K&N Airfilter
Modified Stock cold air intake
Ported & polished Stock TPI intake
Holley Adjustable Fuel Press regulator
AC Rapidfire Spark Plugs.
Gil Younger (no yo-yo) Shift Kit
Aluminum Driveshaft
3.73 Posi gear
Baer 12" brakes 4 wheels
KYB AGX Adjustable Shocks & struts
Hotchkis strut tower brace
South side machine frame connecters
Custom reinforced control arms and pan hard bar.
Custom Leather interior
CUSTOM Yellow Gauge Faces

87 Formula TPI (5 Speed) Yellow/Gray STOCK

1967 Buick Riviera 430hp Turns high 14's (Not bad for 4300 lbs)

83 Camaro (Parts)
83 T/A (parts)

http://www.3rdgenformula.com

 

How are thoes 12" Baer brakes treaten ya. Do you like them?

 

hey okfoz...just curious..did you by any chance have the distributor removed at all?

------------------
86 Trans Am 305 TPI,Bored 30 over,Blower Cam,Fordged Racing Pistons,High Volume Oil Pump,3" Flowmaster Exhaust,Hypetech Coil,Acell 300+ Race Wires,Bosch Platinum +4 Plugs.Best Et was 12.5 with a Paxton.

 

To answer Both of the previous questions, and more...

I LOVE My Baer Brakes, I am no longer scared to drive it, 'cause now I can...STOP. Bought the set from Lingenfelter for around 2200 bucks, price includes the Ajdustable Prop valve.

Yes I removed the Distributor recently and I re-timed it to 6° before TDC when I installed the TPI. Thining about going to 8° before TDC. Why???

GOOD NEWS:
I put some Fuel System cleaner (The best I could find) and the adjustable Fuel Pressure regulator, and it runs a WORLD faster. The front of the car raises up under Hard acceration now at least.
Still think there is more potential left in her, but I am getting closer. Just bought the stuff to start programming & Burning my own chips. this should help.

John



[This message has been edited by okfoz (edited June 22, 2001).]

 

Glad to hear that the car is running better!!

Like I said earilier I think the chip is the major problem and since your going to be burning your own chips that is even better.

Good Luck!

------------------
89 IROC 350 Auto
Custom DUAL Exhaust
Edelbrock Performer 6085 Aluminum Heads
ZZ9 Cam
TPIS Level 5 Chip
And Free mods.

Moderator of http://www.iroczone.com

Member of JFA Crew

 

My reason for asking was because when i had the same problem as you it was because my friend pulled my distributor out one day when i was inside and i left the hood up on my car.Its a long story why he pulled out my distributor but it wasnt put back in at first,and the distributor was pretty off as far as being lined up on the compression stroke and the whole deal you have to go through for a removed distributor.Basically im just asking if after the distributor was removed,was it re-installed properly like its supposed to be?Cause when mine wasnt at first,the car ran,but it ran a lot like yours and it wouldnt even break wheels.Now with the distibutor re-aligned,i have no problems at all...Al in NJ

 

And by the way,what kind of fuel system cleaner did you try putting in there cause im looking to get some good stuff for my car as well.

 

man wish my car ran good enough to break wheels. just wondering if they were stock or aftermarket wheels you broke. lol

------------------
92 z28 170,000 miles 14.20 on goodyear eagles before exhaust only mods k&n and slp 13/4 headers and dual 2 1/2 exhaust
87 trans am 12.20 on motor too many mods to list

 

Yea, I would say it is with the chip too, it's gonna take some experience with burning so don't give up right away, but your car should be running low to mid 13's. I wouldn't go as far as 12's but 13's w/o a problem. Your 91mph trap speed is also good enough for a 14.7 or 14.6. I ran my car w/o my exhaust for a 15.4 @ 94mph and I just looked at the trap speed and went "It can run way better than this, so with a nice 2.0 60ft I pulled off a 14.4 @ 94mph. Replace the chip and since you say its running better already, you might have fixed it somewhat. GL on burning, I hear its painstaking but rewarding once you get the hang of it.

------------------
1990 G92 5spd LB9 - 3.42

Accel Ignition/Wires (8.8mm), Advanced Timing, TB Bypass, Ported and Gasket Matched Plenum, Synthetic Motor Oil, 160 Thermo, TPIS Airfoil, K&N Air Filters, Centerforce I Pressure Plate and Clutch, Edelbrock TES Headers, Dual Cats, Edelbrock RPM Series Catback

14.4 @ 94mph w/2.0622 60ft

Soon To Come

AFPR, Underdrive Pulleys, Short Throw Shifter, Intake, Cam

6-0 Against Rustangs = )

RW91B4C is there anyway I can contact you? We have the same cars with almost the same times, it could be good to give some good tips to eachother

 

Your MPH on your run is pretty good. The trap speed, in a way, shows what kind of power your car makes. The ET is a combination of power, shifting, and traction. Were your tires spinning a lot? If so, that's probably why you didn't dip into the 14s. Just my two cents.

------------------
1984 Camaro Sport Coupe - 73K Miles, Rebuilt 355 TPI L98, Crane 2032 CompuCam - 214/220 @ .050", Crane adjustable fuel pressure regulator, MSD Blaster coil, custom burned PROM, stock TPI intake, Accel 24# injectors, gutted air box with K&N filters
F41 Suspension Package, 700R4 Tranny, TCI Breakaway torque converter, 3.27 Disc Brake Posi Rear
Hooker Shorty Headers, Catco High-Flow 3" Cat, Flowmaster 3" American Thunder Cat-Back
New Paint
Best 1/4 Mile Run (with old LG4 motor):
16.760 @ 80.74 MPH

Coming Soon:
Aluminum Drive Shaft

 

Answers
-No tire spin
-I just bought the most expensive Fuel system cleaner, threw away the bottle. sorry.
-Installed an old hyperchip last weekend, Not for long, because it was for a manual. It helped some. i am looking forward to doing some programming.

I was just thinking, I might not be able to break loose because I re-inforced my control arms. Just a thought. That's a GOOD Thing

John

------------------
87 Formula Yellow/Black
Engine & Transmission
.040 over 5.0 converted to TPI, 9.5:1 Compression, SLP Cam Dur 206/212, Lift 480/487, Cent Line 112, SLP headers, SLP cat-back exhaust, K&N Airfilter, Modified Stock cold air intake, Ported & polished Stock TPI intake, Holley Adjustable Fuel Press regulator, AC Rapidfire Spark Plugs.
Gil Younger (no yo-yo) Shift Kit, Aluminum Driveshaft, 3.73 Posi gear
Suspension & Brakes:
Baer 12" brakes 4 wheels, KYB AGX Adjustable Shocks & struts, Hotchkis strut tower brace, South side machine frame connectors, Custom reinforced control arms and pan hard bar.
Interior:
Custom Leather interior, CUSTOM Yellow Gauge Faces, Kenwood Receiver, Pioneer Speakers, Kicker Substations, Kenwood 10 Disk Changer, Pioneer Amp.

87 Formula TPI (5 Speed) Yellow/Gray STOCK

1967 Buick Riviera 430hp Turns high 14's (Not bad for 4300 lbs)

83 Camaro (Parts)
83 T/A (parts)

http://www.3rdgenformula.com

[This message has been edited by okfoz (edited June 26, 2001).]