xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

hey i am rebuilding the 355 in my Iroc i wanted to know what is a good cam/spring/push rod combo to run on the stock tpi set-up. i am not lookin for anything to crazy it will be a daily driver but i want it better then stock.

MIKEYDZ28

check out the comp cams catalog online. there is a sbc section where they have recommended cams for tpi with appropriate mods, it gives a general idea of the application of the cam. thats a good place to start. Youll probly end up with an xe or xfi cam.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

What heads? That makes all the difference.

On the stock heads you can use the Manley 22410-16 springs and 23652-16 retainers and a ZZ4 camshaft on the stock computer programming.

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

the heads are stock.

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

i looked up the zz4 cam i couldnt find it what is the part #

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

I did a simple board search for "ZZ4 cam part number" and found this for you:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...-camshaft.html

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

zz4 isnt a bad cam, but its got alot of lift for stock heads. you'll need to shim up the springs for sure and run offset locks or retainers, and hope that the studs dont pull out.

check ebay for zz4 take out cams... ppl buy zz4 crates and junk the stock cam since its relatively small

another good choice (still need shims/offset locks or retainers) would be comps 501 cam. 212/218. will work good with stock programming as well considering you have a mass air car. maybe even the 502 grind, which is 218/224. thats as big as i'd go on a stock TPI car

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

yea the car is mass air now do the cams you mentioned are they a choppy idle or smooth and where is their power band.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

zz4 wont have much lope to it, maybe just alittle bit of lope, depends on your exhaust. My neighbor has that zz4 motor in his monte carlo. Sounds mild but you can tell its not a 305. My car somewhat sounded like it had alittle lope with my exhaust system i had, and thats stock L98 cam so it will depend on the exhaust and idle rpm alittle.

212/218 501 cam isnt very lopey either. Just abit more than stock. Powerband on stock cam is up to 5000 rpms, this cam should crest 5200-5400 rpms. I think you can get this cam on a 110 lsa which will make it abit more lopey. 112 is standard LSA for the 501-503 cams

502 cam, 218/224 will have a mild lope but its not alll that aggressive. Powerband is up to around 5500-5600. Also depends on how low you get it to idle. I've heard this cam on a few LT1 cars in vids and its pretty docile. Less choppy than the LT4 hotcam and will make just bit less power than the hotcam.

Keep in mind TPI is really only good to about 5200-5400 rpms with aftermarket stuff, and about 4500-4700 with stock stuff. Having a cam that is capable of peak power in the 5000-5500 rpm range will be great for TPI as it will help hold peak power longer in the rpm range. TPI tends to flatline after those listed rpm ranges, meaning although the cam is able to make more power higher up the rpm scale, the intake will not make any more and hp curve will flatline as rpms go up. Not a bad thing tho. Wide powerband like that is nice to have

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

yea i am running edlebrock headers highflow cat and 3 in flowmasters all the way out and i was thinking about porting the intake to that it will breath better. how does your neighbor like the zz4 i mean it is a stock cam but does it feel like a stock cam because i was kind of looking for a little better then the the stock cam that cam with my engine. i think the rpms toping off at 5200 would be just fine not looking to take it on the strip at all just trying to roast some rice.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Oh yeah its a much stouter motor than my bolt on L98. ZZ4 has L98 aluminum heads and that zz4 cam. his car probly makes around 340-350hp on motor and my car was around 300-310 i'd say. He has a quiet style exhaust so it muffles that cam down unlike my system

ZZ4 is definately a better than stock cam. I still think i'd go 501-502 cam tho just for the better more aggressive lobe profiles on the cam.

92droptopws6

iTrader: (10)

LPE 219/219 560/560 112 makes great power

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

the guy that is building my engine is saying that i need max lift of .450 unless i get the heads done. what is good cam in that range

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

you can run more than .450 lift on stock heads. you can get up to around .470

only cams like that are custom grind and factory LT1 cams which arent bad but arent much better than stock L98 cam

I do believe crane has some grinds that are designed for stock heads for the stock eliminator classes. loads of duration but stock like lift

92droptopws6

iTrader: (10)

how do you rebuild an engine and not touch the heads that is counter productive,atleast put performance valve springs on it!!! a valve job would be nice too!!
you can always use the production Lt4 cam it has specs similar to the values stated...450/460 115 lobe 208/214(in that area)...

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

i am going to change the springs i just have to find the cam first

rodie_27

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I'm in a strikingly similar situation. I want the same thing, stock 350 TPI rebuild and want the low end TQ/HP. I don't plan on going over 4500-5000 RPM at all. Using 58cc 305 'swirl port' heads putting me about 10:1 compression with 1.84" 1.50" valves. I was really leaning toward about a 112* separation but I need lift/duration advice. Either I'll just use my stock roller cam (from a 305 with 5-speed, so a 350 cam I believe) or go to a flat tappet. All appreciated.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

LT1 cam would work good. you can get those for cheap.

else keep it small as well, something around 212-214 intake duration, 218-220 exhaust

rodie_27

So 112* separation and your intake/exhaust would be a good combo? The shop won't put it together unless they provide it, I want to take a good set of numbers with me to tell him. I already have 3" exhaust and I'll have headers shortly, if that makes any difference.

dave-92gta

iTrader: (1)

i found this cam and i was thinking of using it on my car. stock heads that are rebuild with roller 1.5's. il need to re-adjust them with new springs but the cam's grind number is 264HR-12. it has a 112* lobe and 210 intake and 220 exhaust with 0.480 intake and exhaust. this should with with stock l98 heads and it only makes power to 5200 so it says. its pretty basic but it should work well with our cars. it does say you need a programer but i dont think so becuause i have seen larger cams without the use of a new chip.

i dont know if this is the best choice but it could work

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats not a bad grind. .480 lift tho may put you over the edge on stock heads. some have run that but some say .470 is max lift the heads will handle.

another great grind for stock heads is the crane cam 214/220 .465" lift.

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft

yep something like that. stock TPI craps out at 4400-4500 with stock cam, but intake mods will extend that to 5000-5100 rpms. If your using stock TPI, then the bigger 212/218 cam from comp will probly peak at 4500-4600. Cams after that will peak about the same but possibly make abit more power to a point. heads and intake will become the limiter eventually.

But for your goals, you'll gain alot of low end power with a 212/218 comp 501 grind, or that crane 214/220.

It should run just fine on stock 350 MAF tune with some fuel pressure regulator adjustments and base timing adjustments.

dave-92gta

iTrader: (1)

im new to this engine but i dont think the 501 or the 502 cams will work with the stock heads. i might have missed something but i think the max lift for the 87 and later heads are about 0.480. how would 0.495 and greater work? can these heads be done up enough to handle that much lift. sorry if im breakin the post here but i thought i would just point this out cause im sorta wondering about this now.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yeah you would have to get the heads worked over or add a shim kit and offset retainers or offset locks to raise the spring height over the guide boss. You can get away with .510-.520 lift on stock heads with a spring shim kit and offset retainers or offset locks (one or the other, not both)

you also gotta worry about pulling the studs with a cam with higher lift like that, and with springs of higher pressure

I personally would have the heads worked over to handle .500 lift safely and screw in studs. its about 200 bucks in machine work give or take some. My local shop may beable to do it for 175 or so.

ALSO you can get a stud pin kit, and just pin your stock studs. Drill a hole thru the base with the supplied bit, and insert the stud pins. Thats cheaper than screw in studs

its all very beneficial in the long run to do those things. if you really dotn wanna dump the extra money into the heads like that, just run the crane cam thats designed for stock heads.

thesargster4

iTrader: (1)

Check out crane # 104224, im running it in my tpi 383.. looks to be in the range your looking for.

bonesbrakr

iTrader: (3)

Look towards the future and get some head work done now. Get the guides cut down or replaced to handle higher lift. So in the future if you decide to go to a bigger cam you wont have to pull the heads to replace valve springs.

rodie_27

Awesome responses guys, a lot of great information here. Is it worth the cost/benefit to get a roller cam? I mean paying $300 instead of $100 for somebody who doesn't have tons of money? Again, how good is the stock roller cam in my 305? Remember, it had the 350 cam with the manual tranny. Thanks guys!

Fionnla

Take a look at this Comp Cam.

CS XE262H-14 (Flat Tappet).

For a Roller Cam look at CS 262-R12.

Dokken10

iTrader: (18)

Sounds like you are doing the same thing I'm doing. I called TPIS about a cam that would work with my stock 91 L98 Speed density without memcal modification. They recommended a ZZ3 cam(not listed on thier site) with a set of springs. Stock springs would work but pushed to and over their limits. $375 for the cam and $125 for the springs for a 20HP gain mid range. I don't believe most advertised HP gains so I'm thinking this might gain 15HP at the most. $500 for just a cam and springs with a 15HP gain?? I'm having a hard time spending $500 for maybe 15HP.

rodie_27

What about this cam for a flat tappet?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...K&autoview=sku

Also, I looked at the Crane cam;
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft

Seems great to me, but with cam and lifters, it's like $500. Just don't have that kinda money. Shoot back.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

NO! ZZ3 cam is not 375 dollars, more like 100 dollars. ZZ3 is the same as the ZZ4 cam and those you can find all day long for under 150 bucks. Check ebay and classifieds for that. Its a takeout cam from the ZZ4 crate motor. But yes it will be about a 15-20hp/tq gain on a TPI car

And its .520 exhaust lift will be too much for stock heads, they will need work to clear it. Even shimming/offset locks may not give enough safe clearance.


You dont need lifters with the crane cam if your stock roller lifters are in good shape and they should be as long as the car was well maintained. My lifters appear to be in good shape and they have near 160K miles on them.

Summit has that crane cam for $286


I believe there are benefits to a roller cam. they are smoother running and have better lobe profiles than flat tappets. you'll have better driveability and make more power everywhere throughout the engines power curve. They last longer too since roller tappets dont wear out like flats. No engine/cam break in time needed, just install and drive.

I would save up for the cam if it was me, or try to find it used for a good price. Not as easy finding small cams used like that, but you just may. I remember someone here selling a powermax crane cam a few months ago.

Its good enough to get a 3400lb car into the 12's in the 1/4 mile. It will make about 310 hp on motor with stock L98/LB9 heads. 1.6 rockers kinda helps to get the lift up into a more respectable range. That cam will peak at 5000 rpms in the right motor, like a miniram or stealth ram or possibly a siamesed/highflow TPI upgrade. But there are better versions of that cam out there. stuff with tighter lobe seperation angles and better more aggressive ramp rates on the cam lobes.

rodie_27

Wow Orr89, great post. The shop I'm taking the motor to won't reuse the lifters and won't put together anything he doesn't provide (other than crank pretty much). So even though my lifters should be fine....He's still fairly reasonably priced, just very cautious. So you're saying I'll be better off in the long run splurging on the roller cam? How will that Crane 104224 be on gas mileage? Not at all my main concern, but still an everyday driver. Computer compatible and ok with 10:1 compression?

92droptopws6

iTrader: (10)

definately try to find a zz4 cam it gets nice fuel mileage,i really hope you decide to spend the cash on a custom chip to take your set up to the limit safely!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yeah i think it will be ok. its just a step bigger than stock L98 350/Lb9 305 5 spd cam. Its got abit more aggressive lobes which is good, but duration isnt all that much more. It should run fine on stock programming (MAF sensor cars) with a little tweaking to the fuel pressure regulator and 8-10 degrees base timing.

Gas mileage should be good, around stock type mileage. Maybe alittle less, like 1-2 mpg, but i wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt change. That cam is probly worth an extra 15-20hp over stock, just like ZZ4. Both are computer compatible proven.

And yes, i feel roller cams are worth the cost.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ght=roller+cam

read about his swap, the roller cam really made things nicer overall

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

great posts guys i think i am leaning towards cran cams http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...tType=camshaft
#104224 it seems it will work with my stock heads and will have good driveablitiy with the stock ECM set-up. has anyone used this cam/ spring set-up?

for getting the work done to the heads to get more lift in there i might get a bigger cam later but right now i am just worried about getting the engine running and put in the car. i dont even know if i will still have the car when i would upgrade the cam so i am not worring about it now.

rodie_27

Wow, that thread is awfully compelling. Only thing is I just found out today my heads are not perfect, they need new valves/guides. $330 later.....so I can't bring myself to spend $500-600 on a roller cam. I so definitely wish I could, the flat tappet is just so much more economical for me. So yet another fantastic post, but I just can't afford the better stuff on a college student salary

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats understandable. gotta do waht you can with your budget. But if you shop around you will beable to find good parts for a good price. most roller cams and lifters will not run you more than 350 bucks if you use LS7 lifters. Around 400 with comp replacement style lifters. Just sucks that your shop wont let you bring parts to him to install. I dont understand that at all

darkcrave

get some ARF heads lol

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

yea if i had the money to buy those heads i wouldnt have started this thread

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

has anyone tryed this cam http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
saw it on summit how is the cam.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats basically a stock L98 cam with alittle more overlap probly worth 7-10hp over stock cam with 1.6's

Shadygrady

iTrader: (3)

I would suggest the zz4 or something comparable.I`m just gonna back up whats been said already.I would have the heads set up to handle more lift and get guid plates and screw in studs,but you dont have to.Maybe even run 1.6 rockers with it for some better lift.I`m using the lt4 production cam and wish I had gone with the zz4 and 1.6 rockers or the lt4hot cam.But the production lt4 is a decent little cam for what your trying to accomplish,slightly less lift than the zz4 which is listed with 1.5 rockers.Dont make the same mistake as me and get in a hurry to drive your car.No matter what cam you run save the money for some head work or do it yourself.It will benifit you just as much as a mild cam and you wont have to tear her apart when you regret not porting them later.I wont to hit 12`s with this motor n/a,sticky tires,new gearset,new stall,and modify the intake some.I should be able to knowing that Orr89 has.

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

so now if i get the zz4 cam will i need to get a new converter. trying to stay with the stock one

DirtyracingGTA

What about the GM HOT CAM will that work well with the L98 heads

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

wont need a converter for cams in the 208-214 duration range on the intake for a 350 mtoor. Although it be best to have one, even a stock car benefits from higher stall

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Its too much lift for the stock heads, and it requires custom chip tuning.

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

ok lets say i get the heads done so that i can run higher lift

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

still only want to run a cam to .500 lift or so on stock heads that are not ported since stock heads will kill off at .500 lift or so.

lingenfelters 211/219 cam is not bad. THey also have a 213/216 cam i think or something like that i'd have to check

TPIS ZZ9 isnt bad either

Cranes 2032 powermax cam 214/220 will work on stock heads with 1.5 rockers, but with 1.6's it will give more lift so you can take advantage of stock heads airflow peak

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

http://www.jegs.com/i/GM+Performance/809/10185071/10002/-1/761656|10707
how is this gm cam does it make good power or does it suck

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

very mild cam, not much different from a L98. just a minor step up. You can get those all day long for 100 bucks from ebay and classifieds where ppl take that cam out their zz4's

xxx3man`

iTrader: (5)

but will i notice a difference from the stock cam