I figured I would post this, since I have been called a liar flat out and have had a few skeptics along the way as well concerning my 1/4 times. Here is the lowdown on my car:

1989 IROC
2.73 gears, Rebuilt Tranny, Stock TPI.
ZZ4 Crate Motor, Shift Kit, Billet Servo, 1850 Stall, airfoil, afpr, 24# fuel injectors, k&n airfilters, bumped up timing, tb coolant bypass, edelbrock headers, hi flow cat, flowmaster, Custom Chip, completely removed a/c, and drag radials. I think that is all I can think of. Anyway, I have run a best 13.30 in the 1/4. So, would this be considered a good time, a really good time or a lie compared to most other setups like this? I was told it is impossible to do with stock tpi and 2.73 gears. I highly doubt this would happen, but maybe the guy before me slipped in an edelbrock base and ported the plenum? surely he would have told me it wasn't a stock tpi setup then. Then again, I was also told there are MANY people on thirdgen.org that are full of it, but I simply don't believe it. What I do know for sure is I ran a 13.30 in the 1/4 mile - I ran it myself! Now, for my second question: When I put on my fully ported SuperRam, install my 3.73 gears and drop in an lt4 HOT cam, what times could I be seeing then? Any input greatly appreciated.

 

what mph??

 

I ran it at 104 mph

 

I don't think you are full of crap. I have had some on this board question that I even have a ZZ4. All the slow guys just like to bother people with real cars. I think with the SR and 3.73 and HOT cam and PROPPER CHIP TUNING you can hit mid to low 12's.

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1991 Z28 ZZ4 with LPE superram base, SLP runners, LPE 58mm T-body,Random Technology ramair,TES headers,24#svo injectors,ZEX nitrous,Walbro 255lph f-pump,Accel AFPR,Random Technology catback,!cats,and mutch more.

 

Right on, brutha! thats what I like to hear

 

I believe every last word of it.

You might have stock TPI and 2.73 gears, but you do have drag radials and a higher stall torque converter. I bet you could get some great traction with that and come off nice and hard.

I also believe that if you change those 2.73's to 3.73 you would get that to 13.0. Adding a superram on top of that would put you into the mid 12s, for it would unleash the full potential of your motor.

I know in this case, people are problably doubting the stock TPI and 2.73 gears. Howver, I do know that lots of people doubt the ZZ4. DO NOT DO THIS!! My friend has a ZZ4 in his 74 vette which is otherwise stock and he runs 13.0 all day long. Great motor - I don't doubt your times at all.

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1989 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z
L98 - 350c.i. TPI, rebuilt 700R4 auto w/shift kit, Dual catalyst Monza PaceSetter Cat-Back, SLP 1 5/8 Coated Headers, 3.23 Posi rear, Hypertech chip with 160stat, MSD 6A, Under-Drive pulleys, AFPR, K&N's, !Air Box w/ Ram Air, moddified MAF, !TB Coolant, Spohn Dual Cat SubFrame Connectors, Alarm, Keyless entry, remote starter, 92 Z28 AeroWing, Brand New Paint (6/21/01)

Future: ZZ4 TPI w/EGR, T56, 3.42 or 3.73, Spohn strut tower brace and LCA's, Accell 24# injectors

1989 Chevrolet Celebrity Eurosport <--DEAD AS OF 9/20/01
2.8 MPFI, no mods
225,000 miles and still ticking!

More info and pics on my webpage:http://go.to/iroc-z

AOL IMer: GPA 0point0

 

If I read your post correctly, “but maybe the guy before me slipped in an edelbrock base and ported the plenum”,, it leads me to believe you bought the car with the engine in it??? If that's the case, unless you personally know the guy and trust him,, you may not have a ZZ4 “crate engine” – or if you do, then I get the feeling you don’t know for sure what he’s really done to it. Also,, is the 13.30 @ 104 at the track or from an accelerometer (like a g-tech)? If it’s g-tech time and mph (they’re high on the mph), and you have not taken it to the track to confirm its accuracy, you still don’t know what you are running. I swear I’m not trying to be an **** (this time) – just trying to clarify a few things.

[This message has been edited by BadSS (edited September 25, 2001).]

 

I asked for a full description of the car when I bought it, and have the receipt for the motor (warranty as well). The first time I went to the track, I got like a 13.6 at 102 mph. Since, I got the higher stall converter, better servo, k&n airfilter, and other miscellaneous things. I then g-teched at 13.30 @ 107 mph (but this time I stalled it up...I didn't at the track). I have always read the 1/4 times are accurate from other users going to the track to verify, but the mph is off about 3mph so I say 104. So, the 13.30 is a very accurate time, in my opinion, considering I stalled up, and have more mods, and am a bit better at launching.

 

Sounds good to me, I ran 13.4 @ 105 at the track with a 2:77 rear and stock intake runners. I have a ported base, but stock runners. My car needs a TON of tuning, so I don't doubt your times the least bit. I do suggest a gear change for you, it is probably the best mod I have ever done!

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1991 Camaro RS/Z28,polished TPI, 355ci. Sportsman 11 heads, LT-4 Hot cam,Pete Jackson gear drive, on,and on, and on... best E.T.>13.4 new best MPH> 108.7, no traction, no tuning, The car is pictured in Chevy High Performance magazine, June 2000 issue.
http://www.geocities.com/jasonsz28us/INDEX.htm

1997 GMC Yukon, 4 wheel drive, leather, loaded, Gibson exhaust, K&N intake, Boston pro series speakers..... That's it so far.

1969 Camaro,12 point cage, total project right now, I am planning an LS1 - T56 - and a Vette independent rear. Pro Touring crowd, look out! 8^)

 

actually ~2.73-2.77 showes to be the best gear for 1/4 mile time for a stock tpi. match that with a zz4, higher stall, and DR's and you have yourself a low 13 car easy.

 

Why are you concerned? A G-tech time of 13.3 is good IMO. Sure there are inaccuracies, but it still is a reasonably good indicator and from everyone I know that has one and has DONE actually 1/4 mile times, they are reasonably accurate on the e.t.

I would suggest a higher stall converor, especially with the 2.73s and some "tweaking" of the eprom. Gears (3.73s) are more of a necessity when you have an engine that makes all of its power "up top" with virtually nothing on the bottom. Your engine will make more bottom end torque, so gears aren't as important. In fact, I have seen a few guys who install 3.73s on their TPI and found that they had virtually no improvement in either their e.t.s or mphs. The guys who opted for a higher stall DID get better results in their e.ts and I now lean towards changing the TC rather than gears.

 

I have 2.77's, stock tpi (ported plenum), zz4, vigilante 2800 stall, nitto dr's..
I ran 13.4 @ 101mph with a 1.9 sixty foot.

 

I like my 2.73, its the best of both worlds. I have terrific bottom end and she goes like a raped ape at top end. I thought about getting 3.23s, but 3.73s are too low for me. I like my top end just as much as the quarter mile.

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1992 Camaro Z-28 custom 25th anniversary, 5.7 TPI auto, 2.73 posi, t-tops, arctic white with 92' medium mettalic gray stripes with black border stripe.

1967 Pontiac Catalina 2 door fastback, 400 v-8, auto, cameo white, dark red interior

 

so what do you guys think about me putting a fully ported SuperRam and 3.73 gears in it? Will the 3.73's help more since the SuperRam has more up top than the stock tpi? I hope so.

 

A really good compromise rear gear for automatic TPI cars is 3.42's. I first went with a higher-stall converter behind my nearly-stock 305 with 2.73 gears, which helped a good bit in the 60-foot time (and the corresponding drop in 1/4-mile time too). Going with 3.42 gears helped both e.t. and mph since I was able to use a lot more of 3rd gear instead of just getting into 3rd before the end of the 1/4 mile. Revs aren't too bad on the highway, definitely better than 3.73's and not much more than 3.23's.

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Greg Westphal
'87 IROC 355TPI/A4

 

I have no problems believing that.
See my sig - I ran a 13.9 at 92 mph ( http://www.havemann.com/lee/images/v...time_slips.gif ). That was with a bad injector and a nasty vacuum leak. It also happens to be the first time I have ever drag raced. Some very knowledgeable people have told me I should be in the high 12's with that setup now that I have it fixed. One of these days I will get back to the track and test it out.



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My 89 Formula
13.98 @92 mph 2.06 60 ft
1989 Firebird Formula, WS6 Package, ZZ4 Crate engine.
MSD 8.5mm Super wires, SLP 58 mm throttlebody, Edelbrock TES headers, SLP 3" SS exhaust,
Random Tech 3" hi flow cat, K&N filter, 700R4 trans w/ vette 2/4 shift servo, worked valve body, kevlar band,
2200 rpm stall converter, Borg Warner 9 bolt 327 rear (full poly mounts) Hotchiss panhard rod, Lakewood LCA's,
Spohn subframe connectors, custom chip, Walbro hi-flo fuel pump.
Accel stuff: 24 pound injectors, Superram intake, Large tube runners, billet distributor, supercoil.

 

Glen,, I wasn’t trying to stir a g-tech debate, the guy said people were skeptical of his times. It doesn’t matter to me and I agree with you it shouldn’t matter to him either,, he asked about his time, I had to ask if they were track times or not and gave a short answer on why he might be getting flack – if the times he was quoting were from a g-tech. I have used an accelerometer for 13 years and it does a wonderful job as a tuning tool. However, unless you’ve been to the track and you validate the accuracy (not just the difference of it compared to the track times), you don’t really know what you’re running - especially speed wise. The Vericom that I have is within .12 seconds of my SS at the track, and within .08 of our IROC at the track. The most I’ve seen it off when dialing in a car at the track has been .18 seconds (naturally aspirated). However, I have 2 levels on the unit (90 degrees from each other) to insure the unit is level and square – plus the track is FLAT. I do not run the same times testing on the street as I do at the track. For most street cars, it times a little quicker (about .1) and one of the three places I use to tune in a car is about .12 quicker on top of that (.22 total). That area has a couple mild dips and is not flat enough - apparently. So,, when someone gives an accelerometer time, it’s conceivable to me that the street time could easily be between .18 (.08 + .1) - .4 (.18 + .22) seconds faster than it really is. However, it’s just as conceivable that there could be places that would time slower,, and therefor you could run near identical times on the street as the track . WHO KNOWS unless you’ve validated it, right? From what I could gather before others posted 13.6’s around 100mph would be a good starting number for a ZZ4/stock TPI. 13.40 – 13.45 @ 102.5 would be my guess from what he’s listed. Since the guy shared he has known track times of 13.60 at 102,,, after the mods, 13.30 @ 104mph still might be a little quick,, but seems reasonable to me – especially if the plenum has been gutted. Anyway,, like I said,, I was not trying to be an **** about it,, just trying to clarify.

[This message has been edited by BadSS (edited September 27, 2001).]

 

You guys get me excited. I ran 13.81 with my old L98 in the RS convt. I've since upgraded to the ZZ4 with Edelbrock intake, SLP runners, #24 SVO injectors. I've not been able to make it to the track since the swap. WOW!


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Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI Edelbrock Intake
SLP Dual Cold Air Intake 1 5/8" Headers Semi-Siamesed Runners, IROC
suspension, alum shaft. Numerous mods.
92Z28convt5spd (stock)
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

 

I figured I would confirm again my 1/4 time. I am putting some 3.73's in there tomorrow, and today, I ran it again one time just to get a before and after effect - It ran a 13.5 with a buddy in the car (200 extra lbs). It also ran a 4.9 in the 0-60. This lines up quite well with my 13.30 claim, as 100lbs is normally worth about a 1/10th. For traction purposes, I could only half throttle it off the line. I *still* think there is a little more in it w/out gears! Especially if I got slicks so I could just launch w/out half throttling. Hopefully, I'll post some times w/the stock tpi and 3.73 gears tomorrow on slicks...I'm praying for 12's! I thought i would keep you guys posted.

 

Oh yeah, here is the letter I got that someone sent me: I will keep the names out of the letter and edit the wirty dords :0)

(A friend of a friend that emailed him about me and my 'false' claims)

Did he fail to mention the100hp shot of nitrous and 9lbs of boost? The 2.73 would never, and I repeat,never hit those times with those mods. The zz4 is great, but for a carb, notTPI. A call to the Vatican wouldn’t even help that mid 14 times.

The only problem that Ican see would be his 2.73 gears. They would cost him maybe 4/10 of a second inthe quarter mile, compared to a car with say a 3.73 gear set. It is hard to hitlow 13s with a 2.73

Without some major MAJORoverhaul of the TPI intake I believe those numbers to be complete BS. The ZZ4is supposed to be run with a carb isn't it? Putting a restrictive assed TPI ontop would kill the power. Maybe there are some other things he isn't tellingyou about. BTW where did he find an 1850 stall?? Never heard of one.

thats about right with a100shot of spray.

That car can hit thosetimes no prob with a zz4. Oh wait, TPI and 2.73!! Heck no!!! I dropped in 3 of them and I know what theyare capable of. 2.73 will never have that trap speed in the ¼, whats his 60fttimes BTW?

Is the ZZ4 engine designedfor a carb or FI? If its for a carb and he put the FI TPI on then I would haveto say BS. TPI's suck but I am gonna stick with mine because I like the way itlooks.

the 2.73 gears will killat least 4/10s. Then you have the cam that is only marginally more radical thanthe stock vette 350 tpi cam. Duration is almost the same but exhaust lift isup. Thats bc you the vette heads don't move much air. Think of this as a basicvette tpi 350 with about 15 more hp from the cam. How many tpi vettes do yousee run low 13s (especially with 2.73 gears)
Low 14s with existinggears on a good day.
And what the heck is a 1850 stall????? And what the heck would you want one? Do they even make them? Or is this a “special” unit likehis amazing ZZ4 engine? Just kidding, Idon’t mean to bust on your bud. Hey, is this kid educated in the field, causeif ya call some company to order a ZZ4, they’ll tell ya “oh yeah, it’ll hit12’s w. some low mods.” And we all know that’s bull crap unless you put a carb, andcrazy intake. And we all know the hp numbers they say are total BULLCRAP, sotell him to not listen to people on the net cause they are all trying toimpress each other. Does this kid liveclose by, race him!! See what he got. If he can keep up w/you, you can take hisword, if hes back in the mirror with the Rustangs, you know hes full of crap. If hes notaround, get a slip scanned or at least a pic.

 

whoever said that has prolly never put a ZZ4 in, just trying to be a know it all. hes just flat wrong. when my 350 car was stock 2.77 equipped, it ran a 14.1, and thats with 230hp. a ZZ4 has way more hp. i believe it 100%, for a long runner setup, 2.77 or 2.73 is the optimal 1/4 mile gear. *NOTE* that does not read optimal street racing gear, obviously 3.45 or 3.70 would kill 2.77 in a street race, but 3.70 in 1/4 mile would put the car out of its optimal powerband, the 2.77 keep the rpms lower, where peak power is at.