1991tealRSt-topGuy

i've heard ALOT of stories of 305's being very bad motors.....some i have heard said they are the worst V8 GM EVER built.......

this sorta has me biased toward a 350

but they dont come with manuals


so for me it is the lesser of 2 evils

cuz i like shifting for myself


how bad are the 305 TPI's???

two dudes i talked to said the are terrible cuz they dont respond well to mods

another said that their bore and stroke is what makes them suck cuz the bore is 2 small............

how bad are LG4's???

any help would be appreciated cuz i am most likely gonna be buying a IROC or a Z28 very soon........


------------------
Slayer of the following:
1996 Riced-out Honda Civic (all show and no go!!!!!!)
2000 saturn
198? Ford Crown Vic, (no i don't know why he bothered)
1990 Buick LeSabre 3.8
1986 Camaro 2.8
Newer Ford Explorer
Food that makes me sick: RICE
1991 Camaro RS 3.1 V6 5-speed
1991 Z28 Rims with Firestone Firehawks
dual snorkel intake w/ slashed boxes, 2 K&N's, 180* t-stat, 80 series Flowmaster (sounds AWESOME)
my motto: I CAN'T DRIVE 55

ScreaminDeamin85Z

I wouldnt say that the 305 is the worst motor GM ever produced. I would say it is the 307 or the 402 BB. The thing with 305 is that no matter how much you spend you will get better results with a 350 with the same mods. The bore size is small, there are kits that you can get to stroke it but why waste your money on a stroke kit for a 305, when you could build a 350 that will waste that 305 for the same amount.

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Brandon
"ScreaminDeamin 360"
350 60 over, TRW forged 9.83:1 pistons,Hooker Comp headers, crane cam 216/228 .484/.512, crane 1.6 RR's, ported plenum, home made ram air, 24lb SVO injectors, crane AFPR, all going through 3 inch mandrel pipe and a flowmaster.
New project-89 IROC-305 5spd...Jamex Springs...and thats just about it!Soon- 6 speed, Pro 5.0 shifter and 4.10's

http://ScreaminDeamin.cz28.com

Tas

Worst for what? They are low RPM, small bore long stroke torque motors. Well taken care of they will go 200k easily if not 300k on synthetic. I have 166k miles on mine, no oil burn, no leaks, no smoke from tailpipe, no engine problems what-so-ever. My friend with his 88GT stang wishes he was so lucky. But his car can kick my car's *** in a race so its a tossup

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-Tas
'89 Formula WS.6

Beast5spdGTA

Doesn't respond well to mods? Obviously those people are ill-informed. Head selection sucks for 305s b/c of bore diameter. That's it; only problem. I say 13s in a 305 N/A is easy(exhaust/cam/ported stock heads/chip=tuning), 12s N/A not easy, but expensive. I wouldn't ever rebuild a 305, but I'd rather drive a 5 speed hybrid honda or DSM then a automatically gay vehicle of any sort, including turbo 3.8s. Just my opinion about autos. I'd say 30+% of your power is in the tunning/combo selection. I take pride in poor 60' and inconsitancies of launching a manual car, IT'S FUN...

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14.62@96mph headers, muffler, chip, ghetto stuff, duct tape
89 GTA 305 TPI 5 speed 3.42 gears

Hg

Hehehe, sounds like my car. I got it in August. Burns absolutely NO oil at all. But I it's been either rebuilt or taken apart and cleaned cause someone put sugar in the previous owners tank. My dad and I are completely amazed it runs so well (it's an '87). I always wanted to know, is synthetic really that much better? My dad said he was reading about how all the different oils performed near the same, so he always buys the cheapest he can find(we always end up with Superflo I think it was...) I'm thinking about trying Mobile 1 synthetic, you think I should go for it? I keep seeing that commercial with the british dude talking about how mobile 1 comes oem in Aston Martin, Ferrari, Jaguar, Mercedes Benz, etc etc...

1991tealRSt-topGuy

no i wouldnt use synthetic


it sounds as if your camaro is a bit old, thus it has grown common to regular oil


plus they say only to use synthetic if you buy the car brand new and it has very little miles

but, well, the one guy who fed me this info had a 1991 TBI 305 RS......he said he did alot of work to it and it would only run 15's............i found an 86 IROC with a 305/ 5 speed for sale
not sure if it is TPI or LG4 though

i would imagine LG4 becuz i looked in the Tech Data section and it said that TPI's didnt come with 5 speeds that year

being it a carb, i figured i could start off by: removing the computer controlled carb and installing a "real" carb

intake manifold

would vortec heads fit????
i know i would need a special manifold, but edelbrock makes them

remove the A I R pump and fittings

prolly get some headers and kill the EGR

there is a machine shop in school, so i figured whatever heads/ intake i get, i can get some serious porting done for $0.00

then i'd get a cam to handle this mess

whatta guys think?

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

oh so i see u DON'T like going fast, real shame, oh BTW don't mod that 305 too much or else that "oh-so strong" T5 might fail on u

EDIT: Who says u can't shift an auto manually? its call a manual valve body

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Check out MyGTA Nicknamed:The Big Red Machine
***AOL IM ClarkeMustGoNow***
Moderator at www.transamgta.com
"What does not kill us only makes us stronger"

Tony

[This message has been edited by fly89gta (edited October 25, 2001).]

arthur

The small block chevy is the most popular engine in North America, if not the world. I own 2 cars, a truck, and a boat,all sporting a proud Chevy small block. The original small block was 265 cid. 3.75" bore 3"stroke. As I'm sure most of you know the numbers of cubic combos available. The 302 with 4" bore and 3"stroke being one of my favorites. The key to the 305 is the 3.48" stroke. The torque potential is incereased in an engined with longer strokes ie. diesel engines. The 305 also will get 25 mpg when cruising @ 60 mph. How many vehicles on the market today can claim that, and still chirp 3rd with a REAR wheel drive car? If you are going to buy a camaro, don't shy away from the 305, just 'build' or swap a 350 into your now factory standard car.More bang /dollar.

Kyle F

OMG you didnt just say that. You must be crazy. YOu would rather have a 305 5-speed than a 3.8Turbo? YOU fu(king nutz. This is a freakijng dram to have this car.

Um 305s are not bad repsond to mods well, but almost always guranteed that you do the same thing to a 350 and it will be faster.
If you want a 5-speed buy one and build a 350 on an engine stand.
I bought a 350 2-bolt main block for $30 bucks and only had to be bored .010, but I went for the .030 over anyways.
THen take your tranny to a shop have them build it up aand mate it to the 350. Then Bam you have your 350 and 5-speed. THen you can wonder why you cant catch my Automatic V6.

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89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

LOL Amen Kyle, i'll be joining you and the others on the dark side soon, turbo 3.8 swap slated for late spring baby, WAHOOOO

BTW what mods do u have done to the TTA?

EDIT: Nevermind, i can't read, you sig says all stock have u run it at the track?

[This message has been edited by fly89gta (edited October 25, 2001).]

Beast5spdGTA

I do agree it's much easier to control your car with an auto from mid 12s and faster. And i would rather my GTA for $3,000 than your TTA for $10,000. (I do love the TTA, but it's not for me.) The T5 is crap(T56 will slip right in) and I agree the best deal would be to build a 350/383 and swap in a manual, but that's all expensive and the pedal swap from auto to manual seems to be a b*tch,(leaking master cylinder anyone?) And you're damn right I'd rather shift my own gears to 14sec/high 13sec timeslips than go low 13s/high 12s in an auto or 11s for that matter. This guy was looking into buying a 3rd gen. They don't come w/350 5speeds, TTA are out of his price range i'm sure, TPI 305 5speed is a fun car with mild performance potential. Don't we all want that twin turbo V8 6 speed, but they're not readily available for ~$3000-4000. BTW how fast does YOUR "all stock" TTA run the 1/4 mile?

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14.62@96mph headers, muffler, chip, ghetto stuff, duct tape
89 GTA 305 TPI 5 speed 3.42 gears

TPI Guy

I have had six engines in my car.

#1, 2, 3, 4. 250 c.i. Straight 6
#5 305
#6 350

The 305 was, by far, my least favorite. In fact, the 305 made me sad, real sad, like when you wake up on Christmas, and you expect stuff from Santa to be lying out on the floor, but your parents were at a party the night before and were too tired to get up and set the stuff out. It's not really good at anything. It cost the same, if not more for parts, was a lot slower than a 350, it leaked a lot more oil, plus hot girls don't throw themselves at 305's. It's a lose/lose situation.

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355 c.i.
Dart 180 Heads
Lunati 224/224 cam
Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers
Performer RPM Manifold
Holley 600 cfm double pumper
Hooker Super Competition Headers
Flowmaster Exhaust
Competition Engineering Sub-frame connectors
Super T-10
GM posi 3.42 rear
Hurst Roll Control
13.9@102

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

my guess would be anywhere from a 13.4-13.6....

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

hey Beast, i just noticed your sig, how'd your GTA get stuck with a sh*tty 10-bolt rear????

Beast5spdGTA

B/c first I got stuck with a sh*tty 9 bolt rear, and you can only drive for so long(~3weeks) with a pinion tooth missing, I figured ~300+ for 9 bolt gears w/ worn posi or $500 for a '96 4th gen rear, hell might as well throw in some nice AL metco LCAs, panard bar and comp eng. shocks, ~1 month of down time(college sucks), other little things while i'm doing all this work in a parking lot. $1100 later i still have a weak rear and even weaker 60' times, but at least the posi is all good and i had a ride home 1150 miles.

TPI guy, I wish i could meet some chicks that knew the difference between a 350 and a 305. Most do know the difference between auto/stick though. And I plan to run your 13.9 @102 time with stock heads and TPI in my 305. Get that puppy in tune, you look like you've got up to 5 mph hiding to me.(depends how good dart heads are)

Kyle F

My car runs 13.4 stock with 42,000 miles and I only paid $3500 for it.
I sold a 355TPI to get it. It was an Auto and I wished it was a stick, but not a T5. **** on that $hit.
THough I am quite happy with the Auto in my TTA. Plus I get to laugh when I show people it really is a V6. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

"TTA: The light of the Darkside"
"best Pontiac Buick ever built"
Comonly heard question:
" Do you have Nitrous on your 350? cause that was pretty damn fast to be that quiet!"

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89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

Beast5spdGTA

Do you mean you paid $3500 more than what you sold your previous car for? if you really paid $3500 for a TTA that's not wrecked, that could be the easiest $7000 you could make in your life. Please clarify yourself. And I never said the T5 was good for anything except clutch changes (~80lbs), but it's the only option in a 3rd gen when looking for a manual on a budget.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

that'll do it

LOL you beat me to it!

yeah really get that car in tune, with all that work done u should be running more than a 13.9@102, though judging by your trap speed you should be running a quicker ET, lack of traction?

Hell i ran a 13.89@99 on a bone stock L98, just bolt on stuff, haven't even ported the plenum...

[This message has been edited by fly89gta (edited October 25, 2001).]

TPI Guy

Yeah, you can talk to me about your 305 once you run the number and have the slip in your hand. I hear you about that college thing. They just raised tuition 10% at my school. That's a set of LTR's.

5mph? I don't know where it would be hiding. That's 50 horse. It's difficult to hide fifty horses. Dude, if you can tell me where they are hiding, I'll go look for them, but I can tell you that they aren't in the distributor, and I don't think they are in the carb, but I did hear a whinnie the other day from the LT4 HOT cam.

afgun

A 305 can be built to run pretty well. Dan Burk's auto 305 H.O. turned in a best of 14.049 at 100.82 MPH at Stanton Dragway. If it wasn't for the 2.08 second 60-foot time, the car would probably be in the 13's.

Not bad for a "little 305".

But then again, he's got the bug for speed and is building a 385 miniram motor *G*

Beast5spdGTA

TPI guy, everything seems good about your combo to me(don't know much about the dart heads though), but with a carb, the intake isn't restricting you like a 350 TPI, cam, exhaust look good. What about gear ratios in the T-10? I just think it should be 105-107 mph, I mean the L98's 88+ "should" since only like 50% seem to run well, get to high 13s at 100+ with nothing more than headers and a chip. I would think with heads/cam/good flowing intake and exhaust, you should get more. But who know's, watch me run 14.2s at like 99mph after a cam swap(214/220)/home porting the stock heads/new valve springs and 1.6 roller rockers. I'll go home and cry about it. The duct tape isn't coming off until I see 13s.

Yes traction/driver was a problem on that 14.6@96 2.3x 60' run. Hopefully a little grease on the dry LCA bushings will go a long ways, but I doubt it. I want to throw on a siamesed base and see if I gain/lose anything with just that mod(mid Nov or sooner). Then will come the cam/head porting stuff around thanksgiving time.

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14.62@96mph headers, muffler, chip, ghetto stuff, duct tape
89 GTA 305 TPI 5 speed 3.42 gears

camaro6spd

ok
I am sick of everyone saying "you can do the same mods to a 350 and go a hell of a lot faster' No S H I T!!! You can do the same mods to a BBC and get more power, you can do the same mods to a 327 a 400 a 383(if you a lucky to find one already done up in a 383 form, why don't they makes these are the factory for trucks?) Ok And I too would rather the 5 speed over an auto, even if the auto ran a 9, don't car, the stick is so much fun on the street.

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1987 Black 305 TPI 5spd IROC, seems to be fully loaded, but can't find RPO codes.

AIM: IROC 5spd
http://www.geocities.com/chevy5spdiroc/87Roc.htm

DON 88T/A

You can get 50 horses out of tuning..My friend MIKE92LX did 435rwhp with no tuning on his stang....after dyno tuning pulled 487rwhp...

I have a 88 305 T/A auto,single cat..that should be close to or at 13's..(cold air,gutted maf,air foil,ported plenum,timing,afpr,shift kit,stall,exhaust,MSD,coil,wires,boxed panhard,lca's,drag radials...untouched motor)

A speed density 5sp dual cat 305 with these mods(minus the maf)...easy 13 second car..like mid 13's possibly...its all what you want..they are reliable...as said will give you 200k+ miles....if you want performance for the dollar get a 350....305 TPI isn't too bad...LG4's,LO3's...stay away,unless your just into looks.

Kyle F

Front end damage, all parts to fix the car were with it and everything is perfect now, except I still need ot find a few cosmetic front end plastic pieces and then I can get it inspected and tags.

I dont ever plan on selling the car unless something unreal comes my way again.

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89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

Rob P

iTrader: (1)

IMHO 305's are pretty bullet proof. They run forever and take lots of abuse.
What's wrong with a 402BB? I have one in my 71Impala Convertible and I've embarrassed quite a few cars, trucks etc as I blow by them in my 2 ton plus rusty car. It's just a larger 396, matter of fact Chevy put the 402BB in many cars and continued to call it a 396. No, it's not a 427 or 454 but the same principle. Now the 307 was a DOG!

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Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI Edelbrock Intake
SLP Dual Cold Air Intake 1 5/8" Headers Semi-Siamesed Runners, IROC
suspension, alum shaft. Numerous mods.
92Z28convt5spd (stock)
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

1991tealRSt-topGuy

ok


i will only buy a 305/ 5 speed

cuz otherwise if its an auto then i can just wait for a 350


thanx guyz

Willie

iTrader: (1)

hmmm....... maybe I should have waited.... NOT!!!

<IMG SRC ="http://wsphotofews.excite.com/027/H2/1G/Ow/hL68299.jpg">

BTW, mine's an auto.

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Willie

Supercharged 1987 305 IROC-Z, Daily-Driver, Emissions-Legal.
Former Paxton (6-psig) with 50-hp nitrous: 12.043 @ 112.86 mph.
ATI D1SC (10-psig): 12.056 @ 116.62 mph.
All stats are altitude corrected for 3,100 feet using NHRA's Altitude Correction Table.

http://willie.camaro-firebird.org/

1987 "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" Z28 Convertible -- Super Chevy Show Class Winner, 1998.

[This message has been edited by Willie (edited October 25, 2001).]

1991tealRSt-topGuy

wow ***** thats a sweet car

heres my situation:

i need a 2nd car to drive while i am throwing a V8 into my 1991

so i figure another camaro would be economical and fun and might as well get a V8 this time

then once i finish my 91 i will begin working on my new camaro

i want atleast one street/strip car

Rob P

iTrader: (1)

Then a 5spd RS 305TBi would be ideal. Great gas mileage and fun to drive. And if something breaks on one car, you can steal it from another

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Rob P
89RSconvtZZ4TPI Edelbrock Intake
SLP Dual Cold Air Intake 1 5/8" Headers Semi-Siamesed Runners, IROC
suspension, alum shaft. Numerous mods.
92Z28convt5spd (stock)
71Impala convt 402BB
BETTER DRIVING THRU SUPERIOR HORSEPOWER!

1991tealRSt-topGuy

in all honesty i am trying to stay as far away from the 305 TBI's as possible

my friend told me they are real garbage and considering they only have 30 HP more than my V6......well.......................

i really want a TPI car.........

oldblueZ

Willie, I have a 305 TPI with a cowl induction hood and have been looking for and induction just like yours for a long time, aside from the supercharger. Do you know if the air box can be purchased seperately, so that cowl induction TPI cars can have cool air coming in at the cowl?

Did you make the box yourself?

Is there anymore info you can give us?

Thank You,
Jesse Hougnon

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85 Z28, 305 TPI A4
pretty stock with a few toys
15.2@91mph
http://photos.yahoo.com/j_hougnon

http://screamindeamin.cz28.com/images/jesse/

Kyle F

The TBIs are not trash. They are so easy to mod. They just need a new cam. The cam intose things sucked big time. Just blew goat A$$. You would be surprised at how easy and cheaper it is to.

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89 Trans Am Turbo 3.8L All stock 43,000 miles #1053 of 1555

Past Thirdgen:
86 Trans Am w/ built 355TPI with SLP goodies and too much other stuff to List. One sweet *** car, wish I would have had a good enough Job to pay insurance on three cars so I could keep it, but for a 89 Turbo Trans Am w/ Low miles, I think I made the right choice!

1991tealRSt-topGuy

boy, when luck is on my side, luck is on my side....... i am going to look at an 85 Z28 tommorow with a 350 AND 5 speed

it was a 305 car but the owner pulled the 305 and put in a 4 bolt 350 with a Barry Grant 750 carb.......he said it runs 12's


lets hope it looks good 2 !!!!!!!! cuz then that'll convince me to buy it

TPI Guy

Watch it with that 350 and the T-5. I'm guessing it was a World Class T-5, or it never would have seen 12's. If it runs legit 12's, it is living on borrowed time. I just had a freind who blew up his WC T-5 running 12's on the bottle. The gears fatigue and you can just be driving along when they decide to give out.

vortech305

Simply put people mock 305's cause they dont know squat. All they do know is 350's this 350's that. 305's have alot of potential the secret is to get it all out, Sure it has a puny bore, but beating a 350 w/ a 305 makes it all worth while. Im not mocking those who have 350's, thats what they like then hey go for it, but my sole purpose was to show what a 305 can do. And im gonna do it, and its not really gonna cost me that much. To make a 305 fast the only things u need to do is some research, and come up with some money. Im a 305 guy all the way

cort351w

That's not shifting any more than those nonsense paddle-shifters are in the ferraris.
It may be fast, but don't call that shifting.

afgun

It's still manually shifting the gears. It's not "rowing" gears, if that's your style, but by definition it is shifting gears.

But we're splitting hairs here.

The topic is 305s not being a bad motor.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

yeah, i know i've given some thought to that

cuz i blew my T5 with my lil 3.1L

but whatever, WHEN it does blow, that just gives me an excuse to put a T56 in

so thats actually a GOOD thing!

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)