antman89iroc

I have a few questions.

I built a Dart 414 w/AFR heads. Classic old style pre-85 type build with flat nose cam. What kit and harness would I need to convert and to which ECM? Would the cam sensor/distributor work or would I have to change to the step nose cam? Also, I have perimeter bolt valve covers. Would I simply need to fabricate the brackets for the coils? What would the complete cost of a system including the cover, sensors, harness, coils ECM etc cost?

Also, in regard to emissions. Most "engine swaps" allow a newer system (LS) to be installed into an older chassis (my 89 IROC) as long as the emissions of the later design were retained. But not the other way around (old engine in a new vehicle) Could one state this is a LS swap (since the ECM would confirm) and in this way make is emission legal? It would just be the older hardware underneath. ???

S10Wildside

If your engine requires a cam button and you want to get a cam signal from a cam sync distributor, then use EFI# 120-00023. https://www.eficonnection.com/eficon...spx?ItemId=803


If your engine requires a cam button and you want to get a cam signal from the front of the engine (preferred), then use EFI# 120-00126. https://www.eficonnection.com/eficon...px?ItemId=1459


If your engine does not require a cam button and you want to get a cam signal from a cam sync distributor, then use EFI# 120-00022. https://www.eficonnection.com/eficon...spx?ItemId=802


If your engine does not require a cam button and you want to get a cam signal from the front of the engine (preferred), ten use EFI# 120-00089. https://www.eficonnection.com/eficon...px?ItemId=1376


Depends on ECU. We may or may not be able to provide a harness for your application.

Any ECM that supports the Gen III LS-Series engines. This will be a 24x crank and 1x cam signal requirement.

This is an option.

Your flat nose cam is fine. We have solutions for both step nose and flat nose camshafts.

Yes. Or make bosses to receive our coil brackets.

Too many variables to narrow this down.

Please contact your local emissions testing center to ask this question.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

For the timing cover package, do you sell just the timing cover? For the non cam button oem roller blocks?

I have your old double row tooth 24x crank reluctor already and double roller chain. Would cam reluctor work with other roller timing sets?

antman89iroc

That is an absolutely awesome and through reply. Thanks for clearing that up. I can look at the options and get a cost estimate now. One file up question, if I don't require a cam button could I use the less expensive plastic cover with the classic block?

S10Wildside

Yes and yes.

I don't understand your question.

S10Wildside

You can use our modified plastic timing cover (it has an integrated aluminum flange that will seal to 1995 and older blocks), however you will then have to use a single row timing set. See EFI# 120-00083 at https://www.eficonnection.com/eficon...px?ItemId=1355

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Sorry let me rephrase

I have vortec plastic cover. Oem roller block. Rollmaster double roller timing set behind it with the old style 24x ring that has two rows of teeth for the 7.4l crank sensor. I run the cam sensor distributor

Your new kit for new timing cover with cam sensor built in comes with cloyes roller set and new design reluctor ring.

I was curious if i could adapt timing cover and built in cam sensor to my rollmaster timing set and old style reluctor ring with the 7.4L cam sensor

S10Wildside

I suppose you could somehow accomplish this, but you would have to rework your cam timing sprocket to add a signal ring...a service we do not offer.

evilstuie

Quick Question, I just bought the 24x kit from EFIConnection, after I had decided to run x4 Express Van setup and de-pinned the entire 98 Firebird harness I had... *tears*

When I repin back to the same LS1 configuration I started with, will there be considerably less pins going back into the PCM connectors? I'm running a 410HSR using an old (non-0411, non black) 98firebird PCM with 4L60E transmission.

I noticed a lot of other connectors attached to the harness that would not plug into anything on my 85 firebird or HSR intake...
Other than A/C connection, will it use a significantly less number of wires?

89irocadam

Im building a 383 stroker with the ls1 coil set up already bought the reluctor kit with the vortec dizzy I have a 411 pcm running a t56 trans is there anyone that can set me up with a base tune to make it run so I can data log it? this is going in the an 89 gta
thanks
adam

fireburdluvr85

Evilstuie, are you using the original sensors or the new style sensors? When I did mine I had a mix match of both old and new. You need to combine both harnesses to make one or use mostly new style sensors

evilstuie

Mix and match as well,

Stock iat, tps, aic,
LS1 MAF, MAP, O2 sensors

I'm not up to the other sensors for gauges yet, oil, temp etc as I'm not sure what gauges I'll be using.
I have a 97 Firebird Gauges cluster I'm wanting to use with a custom dash, but if that ends up being too difficult I'll probably just go with an lcd screen and palmer engineering dash display software for the main gauges.
The dash will already have a 10" touch screen in the center for any other sensor readings etc, but at the moment I'm focused on the engine wiring.

fireburdluvr85

Sounds badass! I have a 95 cluster but since I did the 99+ tank swap I will be swapping clusters to a 2002 cluster to finally see my fuel level.

CraZ-28

This sounds like something that might be right up my alley.....may just spark some more interest in keeping the Z.

evilstuie

It must be nice to have all those 4th gen parts (and 3rd gen for that matter) right at your fingertips.

I'm still running around with a open end 2.73 diff because there's nothing available in oz and shipping is murder from the states.

Does everyone use MAF & MAP tunes for their obd2 conversions, or eliminate the MAF and just run MAP?

fireburdluvr85

It is nice. My trans came from an s10. Lol. Sucks that you don't have a lot available.

powerslave

iTrader: (2)

I'm curios if anyone is running this setup on their car? I guess it may be a narrow audience thing, but I have a balanced 355 4 bolt, and I have a Z28 without a engine in it, so I guess I may try it.....just to have something different.

evilstuie

Wow, it has been a while LOL

I'm running the setup now. Just waiting to get it to a dyno.
Everything works, the base tune works for idle, revving and driving to about 60km/h.
The only thing I haven't got yet is the fuel gauge working.
I need to get a 4th gen tank and sender from the states but can't find any on ebay to ship

I'm using a VY commodore dash and gauge cluster, and had to wire in the BCM as well to get it to all work.

I'm just checking the last of the bits with the motor before it goes to the tuner.
The other thing I'm having trouble sourcing is some 7.266" moly chrome pushrods as I'm using 7.350" and they're not lined up properly.

Such is life in Australia

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I'm going to do this, hopefully, within a year.

scuzz

Good stuff S10

evilstuie

Little update for mine.
Everything is up and running, car is on the road, and running an LS1/L31 hybrid tune to get it moving, but it's still pretty rough.


Going to the dyno on Saturday so I'll post the results along with some numbers of what I end up getting out of a 400SBC HSR AFR XE270HR build

antman89iroc

Very interested in your results. Close to my combo. It should show in my sig but 414, AFR 210's Comp custom 229/237 on 114. I am running EBL flash and pretty happy with it but would have gone with a 411 PCM from the start if I had known what all I would end up doing. Made 419 at the tires.
If I really had been starting over probably would have just built an LS and been done with it but this ol sbc is making some decent power and is a good daily driver.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Cool deal!

I am running 24x on a 350 Vortec with a mild roller cam. Soon to be a 6" rod 383 with Etec 170s, a Lunati Bootlegger 224/236 and TPI/SLP siammesed top-end. In my application I will be converting from the 4L80E to an Allison 1000 when I finally put it on a 1-ton frame with a solid axle 4x4 conversion.

Pro

I need to see a video on the conversion
I found this but the guy is annoying and needs medication

evilstuie

What do you need help with?


I did this conversion with no experience and learnt most of the problems you'd encounter along the way.

Pro

Actually now that I think about it, I don't want to do it on the car yet but maybe on the truck this summer (1995 OBD1) as a test. I just need to get a parts list and pricing

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Being your truck is a 1995, will not be as simple as my 1997 Express L31 to 0411 then 0411/24x swap. You are probably going to want to find a junkyard 1996-1999 truck with an intact engine and dash harness and swap everything into your 1995 first. At the same time grab the engine harness for a 1999-2002 4.8/5.3/6.0 truck. I find it cheaper to buy a used harness than it is to buy the correct connectors and pigtails. You will want to convert the truck to OBD2 wiring, then repin the old black box PCM to an 0411, then add the coil and injector wiring. Same truck you get the LS harness from can give you the coils you need. Pick & Pull and Dismantlers both had several LS powered trucks last time I was there that had not been dismantled. The parts list is fairly extensive but I can come up with one for you. Keep in mind if your truck has a 4L60E, the 1995 4L60Es electronics will not work with the newer 0411 PCM. At the minimum you will need a new valve body. Honestly far simpler to just keep the TBI PCM and dial it in to perfection. Since the whole PCM code has been reversed, commented and is public information for the TBI PCM, you can do just about anything with that PCM tuning wise.

Pro

It is indeed 4L60E and from what I rear 95 was one of the years where everything was different from the rest. Alrighty then.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

1995 was a lone wolf as far as its interchange. First year for the 13 pin connector at the case and PWM TCC but IIRC it had a different 3-2 downshift solenoid than the later ones.

Pro

evilstuie

Hi All,
I am having trouble finding this answer, so I thought this would be the best place to ask the question and have the answer available to everyone, as it is a gap in the info available about this.

Question 1:
Using a Vortec distributor as the Cam Position Sensor, and looking down the connector at the pins, are these the correct wiring diagrams?


Where C= 12v (Red 39 on 0411 PCM)
B=signal from dizzy (Blue 73 on 0411 PCM)
& A= Low Reference / ground from PCM? (Blue 61 on 0411 PCM)

Question 2:
For the EFI Connection supplied 24x crank sensor, is the below diagram correct:



Where A=Sensor signal (Blue 12 on 0411 PCM)
B= Low Reference / Ground by PCM (Blue 21 on 0411 PCM)
& C=12v (Blue 2 on 0411 PCM)

I'll edit this once someone posts the correct CONFIRMED wiring.
If Pocket or Wildside can weigh in on this it'd be great.

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

I'm bringing this back from the dead. I am thinking of doing the 411 PCM 24x crank trigger and coil per cylinder. I still cannot find a single conversion with a factory Camaro TPI L98. I have been reading up on this and watching Youtube videos quite a bit in the last few years. I see quite a few conversions with the stealth ram, carburetors, LT1, and other non factory intake setups. Will a mod like I want to do even work with a factory TPI setup?

BBPanel

I have been wondering the same but using a 0411 PCM with Holley Dual Sync for the cam/crank signals. Would certainly simplify not having to run a ckp off the balancer or in the timing cover. Don't know what the 0411 needs for the cam/crank signals but the Holley is hall effect.

powerslave

iTrader: (2)

You'll need a 2000 or later LS1 harness. Then you'll need to merge that with your car harness.

LB9GTA

iTrader: (1)

I did the coil near plug on my sbc 421
Used a Holley HP ECU, and the universal harness from holley.
Used LS truck coils, with a cam sensor from an early 2000 GM big block.
I have a MSD crank sensor

powerslave

iTrader: (2)

That is awesome!! I plan to do a big block conversion on my 70 C10. I just need to find a 402 to do it on!!

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

LS PCM and 24x can be done with any kind of port fuel injection including TPI.

powerslave

iTrader: (2)

Yes it can.

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

There are several videos in this thread that won't play or are completely gone probably because of age. I wish they could be brought back.
So can I get a 0411 pcm out of a pickup or does it have to be from an Express van? (just in case there isn't a harness with the pcm) But I can get a harness out of a pickup? I just want to make sure I grab the right stuff. Also, when I go to the Alldata page, do I put my vehicle in or the vehicle that the pcm and harness came out of?

evilstuie

Where you get it from doesn't matter so long as it's an 0411 PCM, and you are going to reflash it with a base tune specific to your setup.

If you use an Express Van PCM it's fine, but it won't start on that tune if it's using the SBC firing order (although I've had some tunes start for LS1 with a backwards firing order due to some repinning coil harnesses for a custom grind cam, so ever say never)

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

I think you have to repin the firing order. 2,3, 4,and 7 have to be switch around to get the firing order right. Yes I will do a base tune. I will probably send it out to get it setup for my car as I know nothing about tuning a pcm.

evilstuie

Yes, harness will need a rework for the firing order for coils and injectors, also check the pins for the crank and cam(vortec dizzy) sensors as I think there was a change of b&C pins on one of them.
It was a while ago so I don't remember exactly.

The PCMs though are identical, it's just the tune that changes.

Someone has a good Express Van vs LS1 pinout chart that is helpful.
I made my own excel chart up from everyone elses so I could include wire colours, circuit diagrams, input/output formats and voltages etc just to make it a bit easier to track.

The main thing is take your time, map everything and check everything 3 times.
It gets less fun when you have to pull everything and sit back with a multimeter testing every wire when you're looking for faults.

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

I am going to look into the alldata page and load that and print out everything I need. It has everything you need to know about almost every car out there including the electronics, pinouts, connector numbers, etc. I just need to know what vehicle I need to load. My 91 Camaro or the LS harness and pcm or does it even matter what of the two vehicles I load? I'd like to find another L98 harness so I don't have to destroy the one in my car so I can keep driving it until I am ready to do the switch over. I also need to know what emissions parts I need to keep and what I need to get rid of and collect from the LS powered vehicle.

evilstuie

There's no need to re-invent the wheel. There's a step by step guide on the forums here for putting an LS1 harness into the thirdgens, complete with the differences from year to year.

The LS1 harness is the easier one to work with, as you only need to chop the bulkhead connector and connect your C100, C101 C102 I think it is from the camaro.
If you can get both sides of the harness where it plugs into the rest of the car it will make t easier also, as you just cut the connectors on the camaro end and wire into the LS1 harness.

I would suggest if you're going to do it, go all in, and don't worry about needing to go back. I haven't heard of anyone wanting to go back to the SBC from an LS1, but that's not to say it hasn't happened.
Trying to preserve connectors and harnesses "just in case" will add to the cost, better to cut and use that adrenaline to fuel you to get it done

The best way I've seen the harness made is to strip everything back to single wires, run string to each connector to get your lengths correct, then get a corkboard, and run everything pinned up on there and labelled, get everything right, then wrap it and install it.

If you're going that route, I also highly recommend separating out your 4L60E harness and making some mods to run it up through the trans hump. There's not a great deal of clearance there for bulky connectors, and it's a pain in the *** to pull out if you need. You can separate it at the PCM and run it under the carpet and hump for easier removal later if needed.

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

As for the 4L60E harness, I don't need it. I have a T5 tranny so the only wires I have going to that is the speed sensor and the reverse light switch. I appreciate your input and time evilstuie. Thank you.

Duane's 91 Z/28

iTrader: (1)

I found several write ups from Pocket on some of the harnesses he has done. So much info there. Thank you Pocket for taking the time to give us all this information. Greatly appreciated.