iroc stangs

hi well im currently only 13 and well i own a stock 100 percent perfect condition engine wise 87 iroc camaro with a 305tpi engine and well i really want a 350 but tht will be just to much for me and of course i dont have a job now but as soon as i can i will be working my azz off so i can have a great stoplight car for highschool and well first i was going earn up for a 3.73 then full exhuast then brakes and the tuned port injection system since they from what i can tell dont requre such hard labor ( which i'm going try to do myself ) and well what are the best starting tpi parts to work with? the camaro isnt a daily driver but should i get all the parts i can afford in a couple month's radius then rmove the tpi and bolt on the other parts all at once? so what parts and brands are the best for just bolt on tpi parts and how much more responce should i recive and will it get me more power through the higher rpm range? thanks everyone! also how much is a port and polish on the entire tpi system and on other recommended engine parts without tearing the engine apart? and ya i was going get new throttle body.

jm84z28

iTrader: (1)

yeah thats cool i did the same thing i was 14 when i got my car. u should try bolts on like headers and off road y pipe, 160 thermostat, cold air intake and proably 3:73 gears would make it pretty quick also u can lookin to a stall like 2800 and a shiftm kit if your intrested i could help u find parts and cost

iroc stangs

thx ya i was going do a full exhuast sytem upgrade including headers and such and defintly 3.73 posi rear gears. who makes the best col air intake? sorry some of this stuff im new to so what do you meanby 2800 stall? and themostat. hey do you know of any good books for upgrading nd removing and such the tpi system/parts and same with removing and upgrading exhuast? so how much is it to completly ugrade a tpi system/ thottle body and who makes the best parts? thx man for helping

jm84z28

iTrader: (1)

no problem and its ok everyone got to start somewhere lol but the stall as i said is your torque converter. and if u run a 160 degree thermostat just keeps the motor cooler cause stock is probably 180 or 190, and for cold air intake probably slp makes good ones ive heard and ik summit has book that u can buy tpi books and idk bout the exhaust but im sure there is one out there. i found a page on jegs that has alot to do with tpi like air foil and intakes parts ill give u the link
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...searchTerm=tpi

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

WOW... slow down! Ok, you're 13 and have a camaro. That's great! However, you have no job and you want to get all this work done and all these parts on the car in just a few months?!? Where will you get the thousands of dollars to upgrade everything you mentioned?

Even at used prices you can expect to pay the following...
~$75 gears
~$200 cheap headers and y-pipe
~$200 3" catback
~$30 airfoil
~$400-1300 bigger front brakes
~$300-800 bigger rear brakes
~$200-300 aftermarket intake runnners
~$300-400 aftermarket intake manifold
~$150-200 larger throttle body
~$200-300 torque convertor
Depending on your ability to wrench on a car, you may also have to add in the cost of a shop to do that work which is usually around $30-40 and hour (sometimes even more). That doesn't even include any new gaskets, fluids, spark plugs and what not to perform a basic tune up. You are also compltely leaving out any suspension upgrades. Answer this... how do you plan to control the car with the new power? Granted you aren't going to be gaining 100+hp, but still... more power demands more control. Are all the suspension and steering components up to spec? You shouldn't upgrade one part without considering how it will effect the rest of the car. After all, what good is a powerful motor if you dont have the suspension to be able to properly launch the car or the brakes to safetly stop the car?

Unless you live down south where snow is likely never to happen and the temp pretty much never drops below 60*-70*, I would stay away from the 160* thermostat. The stock part is rated at 195* and it is only recommended that you go down to a 180* thermostat. These motors are designed to run a little hotter then most so don't be afraid if the temp gauge occasionally climbs up to 200 after some "spirited" driving. Also, the stall of the torque converter should be chosen based on the cam in the engine not just because you want this certain stall.

Dont waste your moeny on a cold air intake form any aftermarket companies. Chances are that if you have the ability to install most of the parts above, you can fabricate your own "cold air" intake for a fraction of the cost. Just do a search and you will get all kinds of ideas.

Choose parts that will work together well. Don't just start spending money without doing a lot of research. I know research can be boring, but it has to be done unless you like wasting money. Trust me, I was in your shoes not to long ago.

If you have any questions, which I'm sure you will, feel free to ask.
Mike

Edit:
The only difference you will feel with an airfoil is a little better throttle response. I have an Hypertech airfoil for sale if you interested.

dirtybrd88

iTrader: (3)

ok im on the short side of knowledge compaired to alot of these guy but bolt ons ....get a throttlebody airfoil u can get one for like around 30 off ebay bolt right in lik 10 mins 12hp gain cheap and cold air intake the one on ebay is good for the money 65 shipped and looks good versus 200 plus for the slp which looks stock my opinion another thing that will SAVE u money dont upgrade ur throttlebody till ur not runnin stock motor stock TB will happily support 300 to 350 hp 58mm TB will be throwin ur money away spend that money on the stall and exhaust instead good luck with ur car

jm84z28

iTrader: (1)

yeah best thing to do is save some money, make a list, do some research, and start checkin parts off the list and a few years down the road your have alot of things added up

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Yes, don't waste money on an aftermarket throttle body. If i remember correctly, the stock twin blade 48mm unit will flow 400+cfm, which is around 350 horsepower.

My last comment for the night... don't get 3.73 gears. The Tuned Port Injection on your motor (and all TPI intakes for that mater) have long intake runners which are great for low end torque but terrible for top end power. For this reason, the 3.73 gears will make your car do burnouts easily but you will pretty much toss highway mileage out the window and lose what little top end power you had to begin with. This is because the 3.73 gears will make the car accelerate out of it's peak power range far to quickly. So, unless you have a lot of cheap tires to use or you will be driving with a very light foot (I doubt it) I wouldn't suggest 3.73 gears.

Take me for example... I went from 2.73 gears to 3.27 gears and it was a night and day difference. I can easily spin the tires pretty much all through first and I can chirp the tires going into second. I plan on going to a 3.42 ratio soon, but I'll also be swapping in a worked over 350 and I'll be going with wider tires at the same time. See, do things as a package deal...

Mike

RS Chris

I had a friend with a 91 z28 with a 383 and stock tpi daily driver who went from 2.73 to 3.73 and regreted it. The 3.42 or 3.23 seems to suit it better.

CreepingDeath94

iTrader: (4)

I also have an LT1 Trans-Am and that motor is designed to rev higher/flow better at higher rpms...which is why most of the mods on later year/4th gen f-bodies are the 3.73/ 4.10 gear ratios, higher revs, long tube headers...etc. These cars have the power down low and tend to run out of air after 5500 rpms unless you start redesigning the intake system and making them flow better up high...and that includes the heads. Which is now getting you into pretty technical mechanical work if you don't plan on doing it yourself, which will cost a ton to have to pay a shop to do. I would do all your own work...get the books and learn to do it all yourself. That will save you the most money of all so you can afford to do all the above listed mods.

iroc stangs

ya im not meaning right now NO WAY! im talking about after i get a job help my family a little then start saving up for the parts. and for suspension i know i will defintly need to upgrade that in the future but i figure that if im just gaining little power theres very limited diffrence in handiling and im not going be swinging around corners right when i get the car last thing i want is to wreck the beauty. sadily i cant buy the airfoil from you because well no money but actually maybe i'll be able to get my mother to buy it for me since its almost my Bday. how much you want for it?

iroc stangs

jeez hard to decide on gears iv been having a bunch of people say to get 3.73's NOW THIS! so should i just keep the posi 3.23 rear end? it will already chirp with just 190hp/300torque from a little aboth half throttle so should i just keep this for now untill i can get MORE money and be able to get tires pratically every day? dam my insurance/police going LUV ME! a 16yr old kid driving around in a 87 iroc camaro with a nicely upgraded 305tpi under the hood.

iroc stangs

so whats the top speed you can get out of the 3.23 posi? not sure if it matters but the camaro has the G92 ( something like that ) option and ya my camaro has all the heavy duty equipment. oil cooler, 105generator, heavy duty brakes which well now stop worse then hell.

iroc stangs

ya im planning on trying to do as much as i can but currently i have no garage space and well i have no father or really any friends that care about cars or that can help. plus i have no tools. but i do know a guy not to far up my street that build a 68 chevelle ground up just from a shell but do you think it would be to rude to find the guy and ask if he could help me with some little stuff? i havent seen the guy for like 6months

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i dont know why people make 3.73 seems like the best gear ratio ever...... it would be if you had a 6 speed manual (so you can actually use that sixth gear)and had a higherflowing intake... but since you have a 700r4 that only has four gears, its proven a 3.23-3.42 is the best for a street driven 700r4 espically with tpi.... doing a 3.73 now would do you more harm than good.. you will see a big drop in MPG's with you running out of gears and your powerband way too quickly.. it may seem fast at first but thats all it will be good for and that will get old quick.. how are you going to do all this with no garage space friends who can help.... your too young to even drive lol let alone trying to beef up a car..... there is alot more to it then just buying aftermarket parts.... i think you need to worry about getting a nice tune up and make sure its running right before your start going modding happy.... some of these parts are not cheap even used.. considering you have no job its going to be nearly impossible to get everything u need saved up espically at ur age.... not trying to rain on your parade but its going to be very hard for you with no income or experience.... just be happy you own a camaro..... these things turn into a money pit quick.....

CreepingDeath94

iTrader: (4)

I agree that the 3.73 gears are NOT the way to go with an auto TPI...stick with the stock posi you have. It will be fine for a long time. Also, definitely make sure all the oil/coolant/transmission/rear diff. fluids are fresh and any routine maintenance is up to date before going any further (brake pads,rotors,bearings,shocks,struts,etc.)...plus it will give you some hands on mechanical experience before you get into anything big.

As far as asking the guy down your street, I wouldn't say it is rude to ask, it may just be a bit awkward at first. But if he is cool and into cars and sees someone younger who also is into cars and obviously in need of a little help, he may be cooler about it than you might think. Some common ground always helps...besides, it never hurts to ask.

I bought my first truck at 14 and did what you are doing...worked mowing lawns and saving up what I could to rebuild it into something I could drive when I turned 15 with my learners permit. It's a perfect time to start learning...just be careful about getting too far ahead of yourself and getting frustrated as some have pointed out here already. There is nothing worse than wanting to do $1500 worth of mods to a car and barely having enough to put gas in it and change the oil regularly. Just keep it in the back of your mind is all. Bottom line, start small, learn the car, and HAVE FUN! That is the point...otherwise it would just be some beater daily driver you would be looking for and probably wouldn't care about a car yet anyway :-p

dirtybrd88

iTrader: (3)

hey i might be able to help u out with a thing or two pm me maybe able to mail a haynes manual and maybe some other little stuff send me a private message with ur address or post it here who know some these guys might feel charitable too i know wat it like not having a father or someone to show you things good luck kid

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

$25 shipped anywhere in the continental US

Keep the rear end you have now. It If you have the G92 code (4 wheel disk brakes) you don't really have any reason to change anything about the rear end. Especially since you're on a very tight budget.
No.... that wasn't my point. I was just saying you would frequently need new back tires if you get the 3.73's. Trust me, you don't want to have to buy tires all the time...
Just don't break the law and the cops could care less. The only way to avoid the insurance costs is to sell the car which I would try to avoid doing if at all possible.

Don't worry about that. The motor won't even be able to get close to the top speed. Yes... your speedometer goes up to 145mph, but the car wont go that fast. You should focus on acceleration times, not top speed. You can have a lot more fun with accelerating then you can going at a high speed.

If the guy still lives there, just walk over next time you see him in the yard or something. If he really is a car guy he probably wont say no. Just make sure all the work is done based on his schedule. After all, he is providing the tools, guidance, and place to work.

lol that is so true! doing the suspension alone cost me ~$1500, and i'll be doing brakes and motor swap/build this winter. Then again, having two jobs doesn't hurt.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i know what you mean man i spent close to 1100 dollars on my suspension mods alone since june of this year..... this stuff aint cheap lol...

wanab03ss

iTrader: (20)

Throw a 150 shot on it and call it a day. You can do that with Christmas money.... Youll have to wait till the following Christmas to replace what you brake but you cant beat hp/$ with N20. Also stay away from bigger throttle bodies, airfoils, ebay CAIs with open elements and gears larger than 3.55. You want to spend money wisely get a Transgo shift kit and have your injectors checked by Rich at Cruzin Performance.

iroc stangs

no no see im actully currently got only 1 person that would help me but see currrently i cant use my garage but i just need to clean it wich will be soon and then i'll be good for space. no the car was actually sitting for 5yrs and just got her back about 2months ago and it cost bout 1,500k to get running becuse of sitting fuel but ya it has a good tune up and so its in 100percent condition. see im trying to save up money just from little stuff and i wont really be doing much tell i get a job.

iroc stangs

ya like the last reply i have everything flushed and filled so ya its defintly runs strong. and i actually found out the guy that i was talking about just was visting at his parents but maybe he can help out with me some other time.

iroc stangs

ok ur not messin with me right? it be real cool to and really appreciate it if you could. i currently have a chilton manual but pretty much it. some tools would be great to have i litterly just have a couple screwdrives, screws, couple basic wrenches, pliers and thats pretty much it.

iroc stangs

ya i have the g92. ya i like acceleration more then top speed. i just want her to be able to keep up with a ls1 or something or around there on the freeway. i always feel like its such easier to get a ticket andmostly a wreck at high speeds. and ya the guy when i saw him i guess he was just visiting his parents.

iroc stangs

ya iv been thinking of that just woring that it will blow up the motor. i might do that with some other mods. and the injectors are freaking cleaner then new. not 1 cheap job done on the injectors.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Swap out your 305 for a 350 and spend a couple grand building it up and it might be a fair fight... otherwise, good luck. If anything, focus on getting it as fast as an LT1. That will be way a more obtainable goal.

IMO, stay away from nitrous unless you plan on swapping or rebuilding the motor anyway.

CreepingDeath94

iTrader: (4)

Ill be honest, don't worry about trying to make it as fast as any other motor design that was built after yours. The LT1 and LS1 are next gen motors and by design better/faster out of the box in their own right. Depending on what you are trying to accomplish of course...1/4 mile or autocross, etc. Having an LT1, I don't argue the fact that the LS1 is faster out of the box than my LT1. I have to spend a fair amount of time and money just to get the LT1 where a stock LS1 is...it took my car long tube headers, full exhaust, CAI, rear 3.73 gears, higher rev limit, PROM program('93 Trans-AM...still has a chip), and a couple other little things I think to be around the stock 1/4 mile LS1 time. A little more driver practice and I may be able to put her a bit faster, but you get my point. I'm not worried about it being as fast/good as the next gen motor so much as getting what I want out of the motor/car for my needs/wants.

iroc stangs

ya but i feel rebuilding a 350 ( couldnt afford a already built/powerful 350 might be to much money for me to spend and i would be dealing with to much. ya i wouldnt be shooting the nitrous in the engine everyday but still not sure about it though.

iroc stangs

jeez quite lot of work! but i just dont know if later in my life i wanna put in a new engine something decently powerful out of the box but cheap. im thinking maybe i will just rebuild a 350/290 engine or is a 383 or ls1/ls6 better?

CreepingDeath94

iTrader: (4)

If you want an LTx/LSx motor, get an LTx/LSx car. Unless you have a pretty good understanding of the physics/programming/etc. behind each setup it is a lot of work and juggling of wiring and programming to make it work in a car it wasn't initially put in. If it is something you want to do down the road after you have been wrenching and studying for a while and have done the research and feel comfortable doing the work yourself, than by all means go that route later. If it were me though, unless it is something you really want to do yourself is have an LS or LT motor in your third gen camaro, I would just buy the f-body that came with said motor.

As far as which motor is "better", that tends to start flamign threads about how each motor package is better than the other based on such and such...at the end of the day, they each have their place, but the later designed engines obviously have better characteristics and design qualities out of the box from the factory as they are later more improved designs.

StevenB L98/LS1

Sorry to be the *** to tell you, but your a long ways away from keeping up the ls1 cars. the stock tpi cars are great, but you have to remember. you car was from the 80s, 80s were a difficult time GM to produce any cars with some top performance because of emissions, and what not. I have a 91 TA with 350 TPI with 3:23 gears, as far as top speed, ive taken my car 149, 150 max as far as stock, but the car felt very edgy at that speed. But you have a 305 with 19 lb injectors, 350 tpi came with 22 lb injectors, your running a maf car, i run map, there different, maf (Mass Air Flow) cars are slow learners, but they have been proven to better than the map (Speed Desinty).

Id say for your first small upgrades, just do the normal air intake upgrade, your not gonna feel a different until you probably upgrade the exhaust. Then go with the bolt on headers, and take it from there. You wont see much of a horsepower gain, but you will be helping the you TPI flow a heck a lot better than all the stock parts you got on now, and thats going in the right direction, getting the car to flow better, and higher.

iroc stangs

thx ya im looking for more of low end torque right now i just need her to get up quick.

StevenB L98/LS1

If you want my personal opinion, if you really wish to stay with an automatic, then go with 3:42, for faster low end torque, if you want low end torque, and want a higher top out, go with the 3:23. But if you saved up and were going to change the tranny anyway, switch to a manuel tranny, they work wonders in the tpi, and makes it very fun to drive putting a 3:27 or 3:42 gear in it. 3:08 stock t-5's are fun as well. But thats just my opinion.

Shadygrady

iTrader: (3)

Not sure why you say that.My 87 T/A 5.0,auto,2.73 would do it.Had to be going down hill to nail it but it would do it.Now I`m not suggesting anybody trying it.That was a long time ago when I was younger and much dumber.So please dont try it.You have a wreck at that speed and nothing will save you.They will be scraping pieces of you off the highway for a mile.

I agree with the Idea that you get the car in good running condition first.Go with headers and afull exhaust system first.I`m running 3.42 gears now but will prolly go to 3.23 soon just to see the differance cause the 3.42 does like the gas.Next Id start saving for a bigger engine.In the mean time spray it.Ive got 500 bucks in my aftermarket intake.I bought another plenum,slp runners and tpis bigmouth intake.My buddy and I are porting and polishing it now,almost done.I just dont know how much the intake would help your 305.

92z28camarokid

iTrader: (4)

If you're like me and all about acceleration, then 3.73 gears is the way to go ( a buddy of mine had em in his firebird with the 350tpi and he said that the car responded great to em) But honestly keep your stock rearend for now until u do mod up the car, it works great and will break em loose easily, ive chirped my tires through third with mine(id did get pulled over for it though). And for exhaust, it all depends on if you want it "legal", if not id go with a pair of heddman long tube headers, summit has em for around $150 then throw a pair of glass packs and turn downs on it (only if you like it LOUD). I'd put a cam in it while you have the engine out ( you will have to pull it to put headers on it), Ive heard the comp cams high energy 268 is prtty good and you wont have to change the convertor. Also make your intake an actual ram air, mine has the single tube to dual air cleaners up front and i was told it was ram air but it really isnt, doing this will take some creativity because I have yet to find a setup for it, alot of ppl ive seen make it out of dryer tubing, id ask around. Change your air cleaners to k&n, it will save you money in the long run and add a lil power too. A custom chip from motorvations might help you out too, it runs about $350 but it seems from what ive read about it to be prtty good.

There is a lot you can do to these cars, it will take time and money, but good luck

iroc stangs

ya i might switch to manual but probaly after i put in maybe the future 350 or 383 engine. im just going to stick to the gears i have now. least its a posi!

iroc stangs

see i do like acceleration but ya im going stick with the 3.23 posi right now. maybe switch to the 3.73 in the future just not now. wait i was told you can install headers from underneath the car, is that true? i want a exhuast that will defintly pass emmisons/is legal and that is quite on idle louder then stock but kinda mellow but decently loud ( but not annoying loud like ricers ) on rev.

Shadygrady

iTrader: (3)

You shouldnt HAVE TO pull the engine to put headers on.All I had to do was remove my sterter to get mine to drop in.They`re not long tubes but longtubes might be a little much for his stock 305.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

get out of the 3.73 thing dude... they wont help you

iroc stangs

ok i didnt think you did.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

With being here 10 years and seeing what work and doesnt work, the only things I would so go for is the headers, exhaust, stock 3.23 to 3.42 gears and a 180 stat. Thats it. 3.73 is overkill for a tpi motor and you'll be sorry in the end. If you want more power then you can get into the intake system. I wouldnt waste a penny on an airfoil or a larger TB.

iroc stangs

ok ya i was deffitly going for exhuast/headers. what about intake runners? they seem pretty easy to install and some ppl have seen 30hp jumps on there tpi cars that are stock expet that. cant remember what brand though do you know whats best?

Sergio16

Hey buddy listen to Mike, I hear the word of experience here. Good advice Mike, your a good man.

DANNY25SS

speaking airfoil what are some good ones that work (links please if you have them)