Thanks Bro.

 

Whats sad is I have an ACCEL Billettech dist and ACCEL DFI on the IROC. My 300+ ignition controller already took a dump. So far the dist and DFI are doing fine. Its gen 6 DFI which is an old school Motorola ECM. Pretty bullet proof. The dist actually looks pretty well made too. I actually chose it over MSD at the time because of the easy plug in. Of course I had to cut and splice the ignition harness after all to install the MSD digital 6. LOL

 

i thought about getting the Accel 300+ because it is perfect for my dizzy wiring harness (large 4-pin connector). So you had trouble with yours ASE doc?

 

Oh yeah. Went for a drive one day, parked in front of my garage and that was it. Had to install the MSD to start it again. I think maybe it didnt like the 7,000 rev limit. From now on, MSD ignition systems only. Im sure you can find the connector bodies to add the weatherpack connectors to the MSD. In fact I think MSD even makes an install kit that includes the connectors. I just took them off the 300+ harness and built them into the MSD so its still plug and play.

 

My car has the Crane fireball ignition box, and a Crane coil. Will tha MSD dist. work with this setup?

 

I dont know what the compatability is between manufacturers. Since most aftermarket ignition systems are meant to work with OE components, I think it will work fine. As with me using the MSD digital 6 with my ACCEL dist. The ACCEL dist was a plug and play replacement for the OE part and the MSD is intended for use with the factory HEI. So they went together just fine. I just had to decipher the wiring between the two because i wanted to retain the OE style connectors.

 

I had accel injectors and had the same problem you are describing. I put in Ford Motorsport 30 # injectors and that took care of it.

 

Well I replaced the dist with a oe rebuild and no change, My friend Armondo sprayed carb cleaner into the thottle body and she fires right up. So do I have an injector problem? Where can I buy a noid light to see if my injectors are firing? And I may just throw those Ford motorsports injectors in it. Oh, and any idea where I can get a gasket set for SLP runners? Thanks!

 

Any decent parts store should have a cheap noid light set. Of course check fuel pressure and the injector fuses.

 

Hey Doc, Fuses are unblown, fuel pressure is 43 to 45 while cranking. (I might up that a little) But she will start with a shot of carb cleaner spray into the TB??? So spark is at least good. I think I have some sort of fuel delivery problem. The pump is new. Is there a way to check the voltage going to the injector at the plug with my multimeter? Thanks again.

 

Yes you can use a multimeter but I find a test light works best. A multimeter will show voltage even through a weak circuit. The test light will not light brightly if circuit is weak. Noid light is best of all, short of a lab scope, the noid light will flash brightly if the injector circuit has power and the driver circuit is good.

 

Also, a shorted injector will pull down voltage and take out injector pulse. Check power at one injector on each bank. Connect the ground clamp to a clean spot on the engine. Once you verify power, check pulse with a noid light. If the noid doesnt flash, disconnect the injectors on the bank your testing and try the noid again. If it flashes, test resistance on the injectors. If the noid wont flash, check the injector drive circuits from the ECM.

 

Eagle223usa, Did you try to turn on the car while a buddy spins the dizzy? The OEM setting for the timing is at 6*.

 

If you find no power at the injectors, trace the circuit back to the power source. You may have lost a fuse link.

 

the last 89 TPI engine I knew of that had this problem had the wrong prom installed. 89 is specific to 89, they are the only year there was a MAF on a car programmed to allow fuel enrichment during cold start from the main injectors and not the cold start (which the '89 doesnt have).

In other words, if you have an '89 with an '88 or earlier prom installed, the computer will attempt to use the cold start injector for fuel enrichment during cranking, but it doesnt exist, so it doesnt happen. A quick test would be a spritz of carb cleaner in the intake prior to starting, best way is to run the code on the prom.

 

Here is a link so that you can check the PROM ID.
http://chevythunder.com/prom_bcc_1985.htm

 

Thanks for the info, I just got a noid light at advance and will be using it tonight. My car has a hypertech chip, but the P.O. did supply the original chip with the car. Maybe I should swap them. I'll check the numbers on it first, Thanks for the link. Thanks for all input Guys, It really is a help to get different opinions and points of veiw. Most of this stuff I wouldn't have thought of!

 

 

Ok, I got the noid light on, It flashes quickly and strong! No problem there! Going to swap chips tonight, see what happens. Oh and funny thing BTW, it started fine like 8 times. Then it would not restart. Strange beast. I'm thinking injectors. I already bought gasket material as I could not find SLP gaskets. Any thoughts? Thanks again!

 

Might be a combination of things. If the engine has already been run, then the cold start wont really play a factor unless you start it cold. As far as the no start, that could be lots of things...loose wire in the harness...bad ECM...coil or ignition module...etc...

I'd say check the prom then go from there.

 

When it doesnt want to start, does the engine turn over, is there a click under the car, or when you turn the key, is there absolutely nothing? If there is absolutely no sound coming from the bottom, then your starter solenoid is failing when it gets too hot. But if the starter engages and turns over the engine and fails to start, then obviously the issue is something else. Have you tried the anti flood method? When you crank and the car will not start, slowly press the pedal down more and more until the car turns on. This prevents the injectors from flooding the cylinders with fuel (yes you can flood a F.I. car).

 

Oh it turns over fine, just dosn't start reliably.

 

dhirocs brings up a very good point on the cold start system change which I hadn't thought of. May well be your problem.

 

Im reading a book called Chevy Tpi Fuel injector swapping guide. I read that the CTS plays a major role in starting a cold engine. Maby you should investigate that. If I remember, tommorrow ill make a copy of the page and post it up so that you can read about it.

 

Well after checking everything I'm going in after the injectors. Tore into it this morning before work. While I'm in there I'm going to fix the PO's porting job. Post pics later.

 

Wondering about the injectors on my car now. Have eliminated about everything else. I suspect the high fuel pressure on startup might be over the capability of the inj. coil to open the valve. Once the engine fires off it smooths out and runs perfect. Suppose I'll check for inj. operation and hook a vacuum pump to the regulator to get the pressure down. Keep us posted on whether your change out helps, and what injectors you go with.

 

I hate to say it, but I'm going with Ford Motorsport 24# injectors. I already have them, so the price is right. Pics of them are in an older post above.

 

I am having a hard starting issue as well, but along with it I also have a really crappy idle, however when I am driving it, she runs fine. No misses, no lack of power. She usually only starts with some starting fluid, or sometimes after I mess with the IAC valve. I was wondering if a bad IAC would cause no start, I know it could mess with the idle, but I wasn't sure about not starting. Thanks.

 

Might be an issue with the TPS, throttle position sensor? Works with the IAC to control idle and it might give the ECM a bad signal and shut off the injectors when starting.

 

Well, I pulled off the IAC and cleaned it and before I stuck it back in I tried to fire up the car. It took me awhile to get it to start but It did, and once it warmed up the idle issue I have been have remained so at least I know the IAC isn't the problem. My TPS shows the correct voltage coming out of it. (.5 volts) I put a screw driver to all of my injectors and listened and they are all clicking so I am assuming that means they all work, please correct me if I am wrong there and I need to test them differently. I have proper fuel pressure (45 with key on 37 when running) I can hear the pump prime, the relay clicks on and everything, no trouble codes. I have am actually not frustrated with this at all, I am actually impressed that I can't figure out whats wrong. I bet its going to be something super simple that I just over looked.

 

Well after tearing down for injectors, I'll be sending heads out for a valve job and new springs and seals. Oh well.

 

Hey jonnybcamaro,

We see alot of injector troubles on the TPI motors. I beleive its due to high underhood temps and the location of the injectors in the intake. Test the injectors for resistance. They should test between 12 and 16 ohms. If any test low, replace them as a set. Bosch are the best.

Also, if you have access to a scanner, monitor O2 voltage from start up to closed loop. Test it by operating the engine at 2,500 rpm for 30 seconds. Voltage should toggle between 200 and 800 mv without sticking high, low or center. On release of throttle, voltage should drop low for a moment or two then return to toggling. On throttle snap, voltage should go high then drop low again when throttle is released. Watch for O2 voltage to hang high or low or laze around center. If voltage seems questionable, replace O2 sensor.

 

Well, I tore down the heads and timing cover. The chain had enough slack to almost touch the block. It was a cheapo replacement, installed with a cold chisel. One problem found and corrected. Thanks again.

 

yes i have a 92 tune port 350 and mine is hard to get started and i have to turn the distr clock wise about 3 inches and it will fire and run really ruff till i turn it to the either side back were it was and it does have some poping out the tail and it smell ruff with gas or emission in the engine compartment, what do you think it is. i think it is time chain but not a hundred percent sure

 

Diehard, that definitly sounds like a timing chain!

 

Theres the issue. If the Camaro turns on when you turn the dizzy, then you have found your problem, timing. I dont know if you have the ability to disconnect the EST wire (if equipt) to check the timing. On my 86 IROC, I have mine at 6* adv. Sounds like the problem could be most definately the timing chain, but could be other problems too such as pick-up coil, ICM, rotor, cap, coil. If I had to take a more precise guess right off the top of my head, I would say what Eagle223usa said, timing gear.

 

Getting the heads finished this weekend hopefully, got my new GM .028 gaskets from Summit so I shoud be back on my way to pulling my hair out!

 

My car has been running perfect all winter. I'm starting to suspect the summer blend gas might be causing much of the problems with hard starting and shutdowns? Will find out pretty soon now I suspect. But then it seems like winter is never going to end here in So. Ohio.

 

Well, I finally got her fired up last Friday night. Intake and heads, ported and gasket matched, 3 angle valve job with a back cut, new seals, springs locks and retainers. New timing chain and gears. New fuel pump and new 24# injectors. Starts like brand new. In the end......it was just the injectors that had gone south on me. Thanks for all the help.

Oh, I forgot. I also cleaned up and "Trued up" the oil pump, a Melling M55. And replaced the oil pan gasket with a all rubber one piece. No oil leaks! And I had the alternator rebuilt. All I ever wanted was a brand new 89...

 

Last Friday I finally got it inspected and put 100 miles on her this weekend. She runs great! Thanks too all for the help, especially ASE Doc. Thanks again.